These are not only interesting questions, but they are serious and deserve answer. Seriously, do you believe a regents institution should give a christian recruiting outfit carte blanc access to student-athletes without any type of accountability or supervision?
Direct Quotes from JP and Brett Meyer about the Chaplian.
- Thread starter RedStorm
- Start date
These are not only interesting questions, but they are serious and deserve answer. Seriously, do you believe a regents institution should give a christian recruiting outfit carte blanc access to student-athletes without any type of accountability or supervision?
He is directly using his position on the faculty of Iowa State University to promote his religious views. And in case you missed it, that was a period at the end of that sentence.:biggrin9gp: Everyone is pointing to the petition as being important because it was from the faculty, not from just ordinary people. If that is the case, then it proves my point completely.
Last edited:
"These are not only interesting questions, but they are serious and deserve answer. Seriously, do you believe a regents institution should give a christian recruiting outfit carte blanc access to student-athletes without any type of accountability or supervision?"
Now this is just a guess, because I do not know, but.....my guess is the Chaplian will be supervised by GC, JP, and his employer the FCA. Not being disrepsectfull....but if people are worried about that then maybe e-mailing JP would be the place to get those answers. Me....I guess I really don't care if he has an office or whatever. Usually, I am on the other side of the fence on these issues, but the crusade agianst it, has put me on the side for the Chaplian. I guess I would have to agree with CloneFan65's post and I trust Chizik is putting team needs in front of his.......he has been up front about this from the start. Why would he hide things now? What has given any Clone fan any reason not to trust him.....
Now this is just a guess, because I do not know, but.....my guess is the Chaplian will be supervised by GC, JP, and his employer the FCA. Not being disrepsectfull....but if people are worried about that then maybe e-mailing JP would be the place to get those answers. Me....I guess I really don't care if he has an office or whatever. Usually, I am on the other side of the fence on these issues, but the crusade agianst it, has put me on the side for the Chaplian. I guess I would have to agree with CloneFan65's post and I trust Chizik is putting team needs in front of his.......he has been up front about this from the start. Why would he hide things now? What has given any Clone fan any reason not to trust him.....
"
Originally Posted by Kyle
He's not being hired by an atheist coach and administration to guide our football players in the ways of atheism with his salary paid by an atheist promotion organization. There is no comparison"
If he was not a faculty member would his arguement carry the same weight? No.
Originally Posted by Kyle
He's not being hired by an atheist coach and administration to guide our football players in the ways of atheism with his salary paid by an atheist promotion organization. There is no comparison"
If he was not a faculty member would his arguement carry the same weight? No.
Except that the purpose of his faculty position is not to promote a religious view or provide counseling from such a view. The fact that someone is a faculty member doesn't limit their free speech rights. The big difference is in the type of position being discussed.
That was the funniest damn thing I've read all day (and I even read a baptist newsletter today)! :laugh8kb:
"Except that the purpose of his faculty position is not to promote a religious view or provide counseling from such a view. The fact that someone is a faculty member doesn't limit their free speech rights. The big difference is in the type of position being discussed."
But this is what he is doing...through his interviews....in his class room(numorous ex students have stated this).....why all the "what if scenarios" for the Chaplian, but Avelos gets a pass? And it has been stated over and over that the Chaplians purpose is not to promote his religous view....
But this is what he is doing...through his interviews....in his class room(numorous ex students have stated this).....why all the "what if scenarios" for the Chaplian, but Avelos gets a pass? And it has been stated over and over that the Chaplians purpose is not to promote his religous view....
Last edited:
You my friend, have made the single best post in the history of this fine board! That is EXACTLY right, I am now 100% opposed to this chaplain because the christians oppose gay marriage (not really but still).
You can quote by putting "quote" and "/quote" around what you want to quote. Except replace my "parenthesis" with [brackets]. If you want to quote a particular person the first one is "quote="personsname"". It's is also easy to just hit the quote button.
My quote spiel aside, it doesn't much matter what he is saying so long as he is fulfilling his job description. If you go look in the other thread there is plenty of evidence of his teaching qualifications and abilities. Where are these "many students" who have said he is advocating his beliefs in the classroom?
It is also becoming more and more apparent that the purpose of the chaplain is to promote Christianity (why do you think the FCA is funding him) and to provide Christian support services.
Why does homosexuality keep being brought into the argument? Exactly how many players do you think we have on the team who are about to come out?
The Chaplain is simply a figure that student athletes can choose to use or not use. I can't see a reason anyone would want to prevent some of our athletes from having this position if they feel it better prepares them to play. Or what if recruits prefer to have a chaplain. It is not the chaplain's job to "recruit" players to christianity or any other religion unless the player comes to them expressing interest. Yet many people seem to think this may happen. I suppose a team trainer could end up murdering a bunch of athlete's but I am also going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they won't.
The Chaplain is simply a figure that student athletes can choose to use or not use. I can't see a reason anyone would want to prevent some of our athletes from having this position if they feel it better prepares them to play. Or what if recruits prefer to have a chaplain. It is not the chaplain's job to "recruit" players to christianity or any other religion unless the player comes to them expressing interest. Yet many people seem to think this may happen. I suppose a team trainer could end up murdering a bunch of athlete's but I am also going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they won't.
Or I can cut/paste it....just personal preference. But I guess that is the whole arguement. I choose to put the quote in my way...or how I want, so you decide to tell me I am doing it wrong and explain how I should do it the right way.....your way. Reminiscent of the Chaplian arguement. You were brought up in a strict "religous" family but in your sophmore year you had this "enlightenment" that God does not exist. So now you think everyone should think that way. And cruesade agianst anyone that does. I have no issue with you belief, I even questions sometimes, but I am not going to campaign against the team because they want one.....
Now bring on the "What if...how do you know" arguements.....
What if worms had machine guns?
People that were in the military may have heard that one....
Now bring on the "What if...how do you know" arguements.....
What if worms had machine guns?
People that were in the military may have heard that one....
They only reason he said what he did was because everyone is saying "if it doesn't involve you, don't care," which is something the religious sects aren't doing in regards to homosexuality. In that respect, they should take their own advice.
Personally as someone in the military, I've never heard anything about worms having machine guns...
So Gene Chizik could petition to get Avila fired, since his position is football coach. He is using the pulpit of his position to fight beliefs which are contrary to his own. And several people have stated that he said his own beliefs in class. One I distinctly remember said that he waited until the very end of the class, on the last day, and then told them. As if his own personal beliefs are important? Professor Gonzalez might as well teach all about evolution in his class, then at the end tell them that he thinks it's all a bunch of BS because he doesn't believe what he just taught his students.
What really gets me riled up isn't that people are arguing against a Christian chaplain, though I disagree with their argument. It's the complete hypocracy of the argument. If Avila can preach his religion from his position (and religion has some importance in his job, doesn't it?), then someone else can too. Either it is right, or it is wrong. Either both are right, or both are wrong.
"Personally as someone in the military, I've never heard anything about worms having machine guns..."
Thats why I said "may" have heard it....didn't say everyone had.
We used to get told that from Drill Instuctors and later in the field. When you had the guy or guys start all the what if crap.....then you would gett the "Yeah...yeah...what if worms had machine guns....just do it."....lol.
Thats why I said "may" have heard it....didn't say everyone had.
We used to get told that from Drill Instuctors and later in the field. When you had the guy or guys start all the what if crap.....then you would gett the "Yeah...yeah...what if worms had machine guns....just do it."....lol.
From what I've read from everyone who's had him as a professor is that he didn't "preach" his religion in the classroom. He provided an indifferent/objective view of what he was teaching, which is the premise of a teacher to not instill their own beliefs unto the students, but to inform them to make their own decisions. I think there's twisting on both sides of the professor/chaplain argument, but the common theme is that no preaching should be incorporated at all.
Personally, when I'm going out on a mission, I prefer to go through my "what ifs?" Its going to better prepare myself and my soldiers if I've thought through a lot of possible scenarios. The same could be said of this situation, which is probably why people are bringing up a lot of "what ifs?" Nothing is set in stone in combat or in this situation. I trust the athletic advisor council to make the best decision for the university and they will most likely do that by looking at the benefits of a chaplain and the possible "what ifs" that could go wrong.
