Commenting on Chris's message today

IGotThis

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and IcSyU...if you were in JP shoes would you hire a guy with no college experience over a guy that has done EXACTLY what we are looking to do in rebuild a big 12 team to a conference top 4 team year in and year out like Gillespie?...I know he had Alchohol problems but it seems insulting JP didn't even talk to him at all when he is a guy we are looking for.
 

52ynnel

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Jan 5, 2009
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And you guys seem to be missing the fact that just because you hire someone with experience doesn't mean automatically that they will pan out.


Without question you are correct. I simply believe that it would have been a much wiser decision to look at candidates with a coaching background. If hiring coaches with zero experience to lead D1 programs were a solid approach, it would have been done several times before. Would you not agree?

I would tend to believe that the odds for success lie strongly on the side of an experienced coach.
 

Stormin

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Apr 11, 2006
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I originally wasn't really considering Fred because he lacks College Coaching experience. But I can see that the hiring of the Mayor really does NOT have a downside. Even if Fred does not have success.

With GMac we were at a very, very treacherous point. The enthusiasm for our BB program was waning fast. There was a very real probability that Season ticket sales would fall dramatically. There was also a very real probability that recruiting and player attrition would continue to be very serious problems. And not a problem with our lead recruiter. But more of a problem with retention of some pretty decent prospects once they got to ISU.

With the hiring of the Mayor, there is a buzz and excitement around ISU BB that will translate into increased ticket sales. Fans are on board with this. They will turn out. Plus they are willing to be patient and will support the Mayor for the next few years as he tries to build the program. Hoiberg will be given the support and resources to get the job done as most everyone wants to see him succeed. The increased crowds at Hilton will be a positive. And that first BIG Hilton win will give the impression that Hilton Magic is back.

So there really isn't a downside to the hiring of Hoiberg. And it was actually the only hire that made sense. We have enthusiasm for our program. We will get butts in the seats. We will get increased support for our BB program. And the fans will continue to support our program for the next few years no matter what.

The timing was right for the return of The Mayor. I see it as nothing but a Win-Win situation even in a worst case scenario.
 

swiacy

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Apr 9, 2009
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It took me awhile the first year I coached basketball but the sooner Fred learns how to deal with incompetent officiating, the better off he will be. Officials are not any different than other human beings: they can have a bad day, they can have bad attitudes, they can be too old to keep up, they can be hopeless - but they are in charge and you have to deal with it. That , IMO, is the biggest hurdle he will face and until he proves himself the officials will "test" him. The biggest advantage Fred has is his experience as a player evaluator. College sports is all about who has the best talent (probably all sports) and Fred should excell in this area. The lack of coaching experience does not resonate with me due tothe fact that he has been around the coaching profession, daily, since he entered 7th grade up to the highest level (NBA). Its not like JP hired Bob Cummings.
 

everyyard

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My life is actually very full. Great job, great family and friends and no complaints. I assure you I'm not the type of guy my friends would ever call "depressed". I'm a pretty happy guy by nature.

I'm just a person who has not been excited about the last two football and basketball coaches we have hired. I want better for the school I cheer for.

I like what Paul did last year with the football team but one decent season does not make you the next Bear Bryant. Time will tell. Mac D sucked, Chiz sucked and I'm just not stoked about Hoiberg.

well, what is done is done and out of your control. So, now, moving forward you have two options. Get behind our coaches and teams regardless of how you felt of their hires and enjoy the ride and hope for the best (even a great coach is no guarantee). Or, you can continue to be upset about the hires and mope around and complain...it will accomplish nothing and people will quickly tire of listening to you because people don't like complainers when it accomplishes nothing. Your choice.
 

cyclonenum1

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Nov 30, 2006
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agree..if FH wanted to be a coach so badly...why didn't he take an assistant role at ANY school?...I'm waiting for your answer.

College to NBA or NBA to college USUALLY doesn't work...unless you are like Larry Brown...and being a GM in the NBA isn't close to being a head coach in college...so that doesn't work either.:no:
+1

This is a great question...one that someone that considers themselves a journalist would certainly ask...has FH been asked this question?
 
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TedKumsher

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Hoiberg hire -- I wouldn't have done it. I think it's a defensible hire (so JP can defend the hire). High risk, high potential. In that respect, it's exactly like if Gillispie had been hired. High risk (Larry Eustachy and Jason Berrymore combined into one), high potential (IF Gillispie doesn't relapse AND he stays he COULD be very successful). A defensible hire (we're all about 2nd chances, but with a very short leash).
 

cyclonenum1

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Nov 30, 2006
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And you guys seem to be missing the fact that just because you hire someone with experience doesn't mean automatically that they will pan out.

Actually, if you read the preponderance of posts on this site you will see that the vast majority believe FH will have "automatic" success for many dubious reasons..."because he is FH", "because he has succeeded at everything else", "because he is good looking", "because he is a great namedropper", yada, yada, yada.

I think that most of the thoughtful, rational posters on this site understand that no hire would come without some risk and chance of failure...whether they had a lot of experience as a HC or they had absolutely no head experience as a coach on any level of the sport.
 

cyclonenum1

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Nov 30, 2006
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Without question you are correct. I simply believe that it would have been a much wiser decision to look at candidates with a coaching background. If hiring coaches with zero experience to lead D1 programs were a solid approach, it would have been done several times before. Would you not agree?

I would tend to believe that the odds for success lie strongly on the side of an experienced coach.

I agree, there is a reason why we can only find one other example (Clyde Drexler) of a DI HC in either MBB or FB that was hired into that DI gig with absolutely no other coaching experience whatsoever in their sport.
 

cyclonenum1

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Nov 30, 2006
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I originally wasn't really considering Fred because he lacks College Coaching experience. But I can see that the hiring of the Mayor really does NOT have a downside. Even if Fred does not have success.

With GMac we were at a very, very treacherous point. The enthusiasm for our BB program was waning fast. There was a very real probability that Season ticket sales would fall dramatically. There was also a very real probability that recruiting and player attrition would continue to be very serious problems. And not a problem with our lead recruiter. But more of a problem with retention of some pretty decent prospects once they got to ISU.

With the hiring of the Mayor, there is a buzz and excitement around ISU BB that will translate into increased ticket sales. Fans are on board with this. They will turn out. Plus they are willing to be patient and will support the Mayor for the next few years as he tries to build the program. Hoiberg will be given the support and resources to get the job done as most everyone wants to see him succeed. The increased crowds at Hilton will be a positive. And that first BIG Hilton win will give the impression that Hilton Magic is back.

So there really isn't a downside to the hiring of Hoiberg. And it was actually the only hire that made sense. We have enthusiasm for our program. We will get butts in the seats. We will get increased support for our BB program. And the fans will continue to support our program for the next few years no matter what.

The timing was right for the return of The Mayor. I see it as nothing but a Win-Win situation even in a worst case scenario.

Wow...this is the posterboy post for lack of rational thought.

1) He not only lacks college coaching experience...he lacks any coaching experience.

2) No downside...even if FH does not have success? Please. Not having success is the definition of downside.

3) Buzz and excitement translating into ticket sales is great but I think any decent coaching hire would have created this...maybe not to the level of FH...but to some level.

4) Ahh, the old patience argument. This is an area I have great concern over. We have already seen time and again (DM, GM) that ISU fans can be overly patient to the detriment of their own programs. I shudder to think how patient most will be willing to be as "The Mayor" learns how to coach on the fly.

5) There is no win-win if ISU MBB does not win games...period.
 

cyclonenum1

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Nov 30, 2006
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It took me awhile the first year I coached basketball but the sooner Fred learns how to deal with incompetent officiating, the better off he will be. Officials are not any different than other human beings: they can have a bad day, they can have bad attitudes, they can be too old to keep up, they can be hopeless - but they are in charge and you have to deal with it. That , IMO, is the biggest hurdle he will face and until he proves himself the officials will "test" him. The biggest advantage Fred has is his experience as a player evaluator. College sports is all about who has the best talent (probably all sports) and Fred should excell in this area. The lack of coaching experience does not resonate with me due tothe fact that he has been around the coaching profession, daily, since he entered 7th grade up to the highest level (NBA). Its not like JP hired Bob Cummings.

Was your first year coaching BB at the DI level making $800,000?

I too hope that he is able to be an astute talent evaluator. But I do believe it is a different animal evaluating HS kids as potential college players as opposed to evaluating college kids as potential pros. Not to mention the fact that after you do your evaluation you have to actually get the ones you want to sign a LOI...you can't just simply draft them with your pick.

Julie Flory has been around the coaching profession daily for longer than FH...maybe we should have hired her as HC?

Interesting you bring up Bob Commings...for those of you that don't know...Commings was the failed hawkeye FB coach before Fry came to IC. Commings was a very good player at iowa in the late 50s on some very good teams...glory years for iowa FB. He briefly coached as an assistant at iowa and then went on to have a very successful decade or so of coaching HS ball in Ohio at some very big HS FB powerhouse schools. I believe he actively campaigned to get the iowa HC job and his status as a favorite son from the glory years helped him get hired even though he had limited experience coaching at the college level. He ended up lasting 5 years at Iowa, never had a winning season, and finished those five years with a 17-38 overall record. After being fired he he admitted that the job was "tougher than I figured" and said "no one outside of coaching has a concept of what it takes". Since the position as HC was his "dream job"...it made his firing painful...for both him and the school. Let's hope that FH does not turn out to be our Bob Commings.
 

CyinCo

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Mar 24, 2006
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Was your first year coaching BB at the DI level making $800,000?

I too hope that he is able to be an astute talent evaluator. But I do believe it is a different animal evaluating HS kids as potential college players as opposed to evaluating college kids as potential pros. Not to mention the fact that after you do your evaluation you have to actually get the ones you want to sign a LOI...you can't just simply draft them with your pick.

Julie Flory has been around the coaching profession daily for longer than FH...maybe we should have hired her as HC?

Interesting you bring up Bob Commings...for those of you that don't know...Commings was the failed hawkeye FB coach before Fry came to IC. Commings was a very good player at iowa in the late 50s on some very good teams...glory years for iowa FB. He briefly coached as an assistant at iowa and then went on to have a very successful decade or so of coaching HS ball in Ohio at some very big HS FB powerhouse schools. I believe he actively campaigned to get the iowa HC job and his status as a favorite son from the glory years helped him get hired even though he had limited experience coaching at the college level. He ended up lasting 5 years at Iowa, never had a winning season, and finished those five years with a 17-38 overall record. After being fired he he admitted that the job was "tougher than I figured" and said "no one outside of coaching has a concept of what it takes". Since the position as HC was his "dream job"...it made his firing painful...for both him and the school. Let's hope that FH does not turn out to be our Bob Commings.

So McD is gone and now you are on to bashing the next coach? I hate to break the news to you like this but Johnny Orr isn't coming back. In fact, Freddy is probably as close as you'll ever get.
 

cyclonenum1

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Nov 30, 2006
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So McD is gone and now you are on to bashing the next coach? I hate to break the news to you like this but Johnny Orr isn't coming back. In fact, Freddy is probably as close as you'll ever get.

I have not "bashed" FH in any way. As with all coaches at ISU I will judge him based upon his performance in his job at ISU...based upon the results he gets at ISU.

If I am "bashing" anyone it is this slew of posters that are certain that FH is a can't-miss coach and that are quick to call anyone that expresses even the slightest hint of a question on the hire an idiot.

Johnny signed and coached FH. Making any comparison between JO and FH the coach is ludicrous at this point in time. When ISU signed JO they were signing a veteran coach that had had tremendous success coaching in both HS and then at the highest levels in college...taking his 1976 Michigan team to the NCAA Championship game. FH is about 180 degrees from the type of hire JO was since he comes to the job with absolutely no coaching experience whatsoever.

Clearly, FH does bring some attributes to the table that could be helpful to him as our coach...playing experience in both college at ISU and in the NBA, experience in talent evaluation, strong knowledge of the ISU situation, and an apparently strong network of associates that are willing to lend support in various ways.

As is always the case...time will tell if this experiment will work. And make no mistake...it is an experiment.
 

CyinCo

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Mar 24, 2006
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I have not "bashed" FH in any way. As with all coaches at ISU I will judge him based upon his performance in his job at ISU...based upon the results he gets at ISU.

If I am "bashing" anyone it is this slew of posters that are certain that FH is a can't-miss coach and that are quick to call anyone that expresses even the slightest hint of a question on the hire an idiot.

Johnny signed and coached FH. Making any comparison between JO and FH the coach is ludicrous at this point in time. When ISU signed JO they were signing a veteran coach that had had tremendous success coaching in both HS and then at the highest levels in college...taking his 1976 Michigan team to the NCAA Championship game. FH is about 180 degrees from the type of hire JO was since he comes to the job with absolutely no coaching experience whatsoever.

Clearly, FH does bring some attributes to the table that could be helpful to him as our coach...playing experience in both college at ISU and in the NBA, experience in talent evaluation, strong knowledge of the ISU situation, and an apparently strong network of associates that are willing to lend support in various ways.

As is always the case...time will tell if this experiment will work. And make no mistake...it is an experiment.

Hey, I'm not sold on FH as the HC either. I was franky quite ****** off when it was announced. Since then, I have become more comfortable with the hire for several reasons:

1) ISU has an interest in FH being successful. As a result they are going to give him the tools to achieve that.
2) The players and recruits seem to like the move and that is a big plus considering the previous regimes issues with player discontent.
3) With even mild amount of success, FH could quickly become a fan favorite leading to a fuller and louder Hilton. +++

FH might not be the answer but I thought you would be jumping for joy since you finally got your wish that McD get out the door. Yet, you seem just as disgruntled as before.
 

jaretac

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Nov 26, 2006
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My dad taught us to do things the old fashion way. He was from Oklahoma and grew up in the depression. He taught us how to garden, and took us deer hunting, squirrel hunting, wild boar hunting, fishing and finally how to find wild berries and mushrooms in the forests.
I grew up in Anderson, California. One day, when I was about nine, my dad took my brother and me out looking for honeycomb mushrooms. We had gone to this same place for about five years; it was across the river from Anderson River Park. Anyway, we were walking through the forest looking for mushrooms and I watched a huge black thing run from one tree to another about twenty yards from us. It hid behind a tree and peeked around to look at us. I was terrified. Remember, I was only about nine and I didn't know what a Bigfoot was. I had never heard of such a thing, so I thought it was a big bear. I yelled at my dad, something like "Dad, Dad, I see a big bear running from tree to tree peeking at us!" We had been bear hunting with him before and my dad seemed to not be afraid of anything. I didn't want my dad to think I was scared so I tried to not be; but, it was just too scary and the biggest bear I have ever seen so I couldn't help it, I just burt out, "Dad, Dad, there is a really big bear following us!" I was scarring my little brother who is two years younger than me. He started crying and screaming and we ended up going home early. My dad was angry with me.
About a year later, our family was watching a TV show about Bigfoot. This was the first time I ever heard anything about a Bigfoot. They ran a video of what is supposedly the only real footage of a Bigfoot ever caught on tape. I jumped up and pointed to the Bigfoot and told everyone in my family who were sitting there watching TV with me that, that is what I saw when we were hunting mushrooms in the park. Dad and Mom, my sisters and brothers and aunts and uncles all got shocked looks on their faces.
 

aeroclone

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Oct 30, 2006
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I think I am actually in both camps on this one. I am both very concerned with how the hire went down, but I also have no problem with Cyclone nation blindly lining up behind it now that we are here.

First off, I think the coaching search itself was basically incompetant. We have Gary Thompson out there in the press saying he has been contacted by 15 coaches interested in the job, some of them with HC experience and 6 7, 8 NCAA tourney appearances under there belt. We also have Gillespie who has proven that he can build a team from nothing in the Big 12. We interview none of them and go hire a guy that has no head coaching experiene and no assistant coaching experience at any level. We spend a whopping 24 hours to fill the head coaching job for what our own AD describes as the marquee program at our school to get a guy with no experience that nobody else is after.

And now we have people using the justification that it was needed to retain players and assistants from the old regime. You mean the regime that had 0 winning seasons in the last 4 years that we couldn't wait to get out of town? Glad we locked that down.

And no down side to this hire? Really? How about if he doesn't win, we tarnish the reputation of a hometown hero and a Cyclone legend? He will probably get at least 5 years because he is FH. If he doesn't win, that could make it a decade with no post-season play. There will be an entire generation of fans out there that will view ISU bball as an irrelevent bottom feeder. And at the end of the day, somebody gets the great task of firing Fred Hoiberg from ISU. If that isn't a down side I don't know what is.

This hire was made for all the wrong reasons. It was done to pull the fanbase together and sell tickets. And it is going to do that. The problem is, that only lasts for a couple years, at that point you have to win. I think the proper long term choice would be a proven, experienced winner. Nothing is for certain, but the odds would be better with that.

That said, I am glad to see Cyclone fans excited and united behind the hire. There is really nothing else we can do at this point. And if FH can pull it off, this could spark a complete resurgence of our program. But make no mistake about it, we are swinging for the fences on this hire, and if we don't hit it out, we are going to strike out and go home, there isn't really any middle ground on this one.
 
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Tedcyclone

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Oct 27, 2009
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Your choice of head coach at the time was all we needed to know about wether or not to listen to you... the answer is no, we should not. Anyone we hired we would be thinking i wonder if hell work out... Im not wondering if Fred can bring the x&os because i dont care... im excited... all i heard about was mcdermots x&os being so great, and on gameday it sucked! so im more than happy with the hire.
 

52ynnel

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Jan 5, 2009
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I think I am actually in both camps on this one. I am both very concerned with how the hire went down, but I also have no problem with Cyclone nation blindly lining up behind it now that we are here.

First off, I think the coaching search itself was basically incompetant. We have Gary Thompson out there in the press saying he has been contacted by 15 coaches interested in the job, some of them with HC experience and 6 7, 8 NCAA tourney appearances under there belt. We also have Gillespie who has proven that he can build a team from nothing in the Big 12. We interview none of them and go hire a guy that has no head coaching experiene and no assistant coaching experience at any level. We spend a whopping 24 hours to fill the head coaching job for what our own AD describes as the marquee program at our school to get a guy with no experience that nobody else is after.

And now we have people using the justification that it was needed to retain players and assistants from the old regime. You mean the regime that had 0 winning seasons in the last 4 years that we couldn't wait to get out of town? Glad we locked that down.

And no down side to this hire? Really? How about if he doesn't win, we tarnish the reputation of a hometown hero and a Cyclone legend? He will probably get at least 5 years because he is FH. If he doesn't win, that could make it a decade with no post-season play. There will be an entire generation of fans out there that will view ISU bball as an irreleven bottom feeder. And at the end of the day, somebody gets the great task of firing Fred Hoiberg from ISU. If that isn't a down side I don't know what is.

This hire was made for all the wrong reasons. It was done to pull the fanbase together and sell tickets. And it is going to do that. The problem is, that only lasts for a couple years, at that point you have to win. I think the proper long term choice would be a proven, experienced winner. Nothing is for certain, but the odds would be better with that.

That said, I am glad to see Cyclone fans excited and united behind the hire. There is really nothing else we can do at this point. And if FH can pull it off, this could spark a complete resurgence of our program. But make no mistake about it, we are swinging for the fences on this hire, and if we don't hit it out, we are going to strike out and go home, there isn't really any middle ground on this one.


Well said.
 

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