MLB: Minnesota Twins are nothing more than mediocre

[bawbie]

Liriano at best comes in as the 5th or 6th left hander period I can think of in the AL, and he isn't near any of them:
Sabathia, Price, Lester, Lee, etc.

Unless you actually look at statistical analysis. Then he's #2 or #3.

EDIT: After looking at it closer, his season probably is #5, but he is clearly in the same ballpark as the 4 you listed.

Here are the stats, if you care:

Name ERA+ WHIP SO/BB PitchW WPA WPA/LI
Liriano 122 1.263 3.35 1.6 2.0 2.6
Price 142 1.256 2.25 2.1 2.1 1.6
Sabathia 132 1.22 2.48 2.1 3.0 2.6
Lester 134 1.184 2.86 2.0 2.7 2.7
Lee 128 0.996 13.00 2.1 2.7 3.6

 

[IcSyU]

Could you contradict yourself a little more?

You stated in your first post on this that Cliff Lee is the perfect ace. Yet in the 2 months since he joined division leading Texas he is 2-5. Yep, 2 wins in 2 months.

Oh, and since the all-star break (closing in on two months) Ubaldo is 2-3. A couple more starts without a win and he'll go two months with only 2 wins.

By your definition NO ONE is an ace for more than a couple months at a time.

In reality, "ace" is defined as the best pitcher on a team. And Liriano is the Twins' ace. And a darn good one at that.

Can you tell me over the past few years what Liriano has done the earn the title of ace vs what Cliff Lee has? Has he been ace-like in Texas? Nope. Is he still a great pitcher? Yep.

Ubaldo is on shaky ace ground. The guy is 17-4 with an ERA under 3, but he's doing it on a team barely over .500. He doesn't have the career of a Lee or Sabathia or a Halladay who have all earned "ace".

I'm not even convinced Liriano is the Twins best pitcher. Pavano (bastard) has been awesome this year, and he wasn't exactly terrible last year.

 

[hawkeyeh8r]

I feel so dirty but I have to root for the Yankees now. They play the sox this weekend.

hopefully the yankees sweep that series and we can win at least 2 games to push our division lead back about 5 games

 

[FDWxMan]

An ace doesn't have one year that makes them an ace unless they're just out of this world (looking at you Ubaldo). Just the fact that Liriano is 6-0 over his last 8 TELLS you he's not an ace. An ace on a division leading team should never be 6-7. An ace doesn't go over two months and average a win per month.

Read it a little more carefully. Never said Liriano was an ace. But YOU said Lee would have been "perfect," despite the fact that they're having pretty similar years. Just trying to figure out how you're justifying that.

And while I won't get into why W-L record is about the most useless way to evaluate a pitcher, I will humor you since you value it so much.

You say Liriano can't be an ace since he averaged a "win a month" at one point, but do you know how many wins Lee has in the past two months? (I'll give you a hint: Only 3, but a I guess thats 1.5 wins a month. :skeptical

I just see little difference right now, this year, between the two. So, by your own criteria, Cliff Lee is not the "perfect ace"

Lee did great in the playoffs last year. Good for him. Means jack right now.

 

[IcSyU]

Lee would've been the perfect fit for them. I'm not sure what his stats in Minnesota look like, but they can't be worse than his previous stats in Texas. He also eats up a ton of innings, something very useful when you're missing one of the best pitchers in the game to close 'em out. How many players do the Twins have that have ever played past the ALDS? I'm guessing not many. Even less have probably seen the World Series. Lee has done all of this. How many teams get to the World Series without some of the best clear cut pitchers in baseball? The Phillies seem to have that figured out, as do the Yankees and Rays. If you throw Liriano vs a Price or Sabathia, the only people taking Liriano are Twins fans (and maybe ChiSox fans :wideeyed. Liriano hasn't even made himself the clear cut best pitcher on his own team.

 

[Wesley]

All they are missing is: A guy that has hit 18 Hrs and batting .345 (in 81 games)

Wait for it - he's coming back

My fantasy team has been waiting for two months for his return. He may not make it back. Sometimes concussions kill player careers.

 

[Topshelf]

No comments after the Texas sweep? That was a great series.

The Twins have been playing very well, especially the way the White Sox have been playing after picking up Manny. I was nervous but the Twins keep winning. I love it!

 

[RING4CY]

Based on who the Twins play the rest of the season, there is no reason why the Twins shouldn't win every series from here on out.

 

[jdoggivjc]

What's kind of cool - if the Twins can go 18-5 from here to the end of the season, the Twins will win 100 games. Not out of the realm of possibility, either - if they sweep two series (likely at home against Cleveland and at Kansas City), they'll just have to win 2 of 3 against the rest of their opponents (except Toronto, whom they'll have to win 3 out of 4 to close out the season).

 

[Topshelf]

What's kind of cool - if the Twins can go 18-5 from here to the end of the season, the Twins will win 100 games. Not out of the realm of possibility, either - if they sweep two series (likely at home against Cleveland and at Kansas City), they'll just have to win 2 of 3 against the rest of their opponents (except Toronto, whom they'll have to win 3 out of 4 to close out the season).

When is the last time they have won 100 games?

 

[GeronimusClone]

When is the last time they have won 100 games?

Won 102 in 1965. That's only time over 100.

 

[Topshelf]

Wow, that is crazy.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Won 102 in 1965. That's only time over 100.

I think they were barely over .500 when they won their two World Series.

 

[GeronimusClone]

I think they were barely over .500 when they won their two World Series.

Somewhat true for 1987. They were 85-77, eight games over .500.
They were very good in 1991 with a 95-67 regular season record.

 

[FDWxMan]

Somewhat true for 1987. They were 85-77, eight games over .500.
They were very good in 1991 with a 95-67 regular season record.

The '87 team had the record for "worst team" (fewest wins) to ever win a World Series until the Cards won it with 83 a few years back.

 

[GeronimusClone]

The '87 team had the record for "worst team" (fewest wins) to ever win a World Series until the Cards won it with 83 a few years back.

Dan Gladden also won "Sweetest Mullet for a Leftfielder on a World Series Winning Team."

 

[RING4CY]

If the Twins could put the division title away 7-10 days before the season ends, it would allow them to setup their pitching rotation in the order they want for the playoffs. Instead of having to use them to try and win the division in the last days of the season. Being able to setup their pitching rotation for the playoffs should give them a better chance to advance deeper.

 

[Topshelf]

Dan Gladden also won "Sweetest Mullet for a Leftfielder on a World Series Winning Team."

GeronimusClone,

I am very impressed with your Twins' knowledge. Keep it coming. I've been a life long fan of the Twins and Vikings.

 

[FDWxMan]

If the Twins could put the division title away 7-10 days before the season ends, it would allow them to setup their pitching rotation in the order they want for the playoffs. Instead of having to use them to try and win the division in the last days of the season. Being able to setup their pitching rotation for the playoffs should give them a better chance to advance deeper.

They also aren't out of it for home field up to the World Series. They are only 4 games back of the Yankees and only 2 1/2 back of the Rays for best record.

Considering the fact that the Yanks and Rays still play each other 7 times this year the Twins have a great chance to make up a ton of ground and make that a race as well.

Would be nice to potentially have home field through the ALCS.

 

[bawbie]

If the Twins could put the division title away 7-10 days before the season ends, it would allow them to setup their pitching rotation in the order they want for the playoffs. Instead of having to use them to try and win the division in the last days of the season. Being able to setup their pitching rotation for the playoffs should give them a better chance to advance deeper.

They can put it away with three games in Chicago next week. Sweep that series and its over.