*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[jdoggivjc]

Pitt doesn't make much geographical sense. I just don't see the fit there. ND doesn't make a ton of geographical sense either, but at least they are a national program with a national recruiting base so the negative effects of playing so many games outside the region would be minimized.

The irony? A lot of what B1G fans dreamed up last year (Texas, A&M, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn, Georgia Tech) and this year (North Carolina, Duke) doesn't make a whole lot of sense, either.

 

[CycloneErik]

The irony? A lot of what B1G fans dreamed up last year (Texas, A&M, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn, Georgia Tech) and this year (North Carolina, Duke) doesn't make a whole lot of sense, either.

You need a better map. North Carolina is right next door to Indiana and Ohio.

They should have reported that this summer when the move to contract the continent took place.

 

[Clark]

I agree about Pitt...but if geographical sense had any bearing, A&M wouldn't be leaving the Big 12, and TCU and UCF wouldn't be in the Big East. Yet this is where we are...

All those teams (other than A&M, who have their own reasons; jealousy) were non-bcs teams looking to get into any auto-bid league that would accept them.

Pitt isn't in that situation.

Now if the Big 12 takes 2 other teams from the Big East, then maybe they take the extra money and join as well.

 

[jbhtexas]

All those teams (other than A&M, who have their own reasons; jealousy) were non-bcs teams looking to get into any auto-bid league that would accept them.

That may be so, but it still makes no geographic sense for TCU and UCF to be in the Big East.

 

[Clark]

The irony? A lot of what B1G fans dreamed up last year (Texas, A&M, Rutgers, Syracuse, UConn, Georgia Tech) and this year (North Carolina, Duke) doesn't make a whole lot of sense, either.

Rutgers and Syracuse aren't close to Iowa, but they're not far from Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. It's not that Pitt is far from some of the schools, they're far from EVERYBODY in the Big 12.

The Texas, GT, NC, Duke rumors were absurd but those were under the assumption that the Big 12 and ACC would be hit hard by the SEC/Pac 10 under the four superconference scenario. If that happens, geography flies out the window.

 

[cyhawkdmb]

I agree about Pitt...but if geographical sense had any bearing, A&M wouldn't be leaving the Big 12, and TCU and UCF wouldn't be in the Big East. Yet this is where we are...

South Florida is in the Big East...

 

[cykadelic2]

The ONLY way ND EVER joins a conference is if independence no longer allows them a shot at the national championship.

That ONLY happens under the four super conference scenario, wherein I view it as almost a certainty that the Big Ten Champ will play the PAC 10 Champ in the Rose while the SEC Champ will play the "Last of the Four Superconferences" Conference in the Sugar. The winner of those two bowl games will square off for a national title.

In that scenario, ND is forced into a conference. Until that happens, ND remains independent. Period.

ND has the opportunity now to join a conference under ND's terms with network independence (i.e. NBC), scheduling flexibility (only 7 B12 conference games) and with the potential for continued alignment with NE schools for their other sports (I don't think Pitt will be the only NE school added to the B12 if ND says yes).

If they wait, they run the risk of 4 superconferences emerging and unable to join one of them on their terms. With all this superconference talk, ND is best off joining the B12 NOW.

 

[clonestar12]

Rutgers and Syracuse aren't close to Iowa, but they're not far from Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. It's not that Pitt is far from some of the schools, they're far from EVERYBODY in the Big 12.

The Texas, GT, NC, Duke rumors were absurd but those were under the assumption that the Big 12 and ACC would be hit hard by the SEC/Pac 10 under the four superconference scenario. If that happens, geography flies out the window.

This is why home attendance will play a bigger roll moving forward. Geography will be out the door, and teams won`t bring near as many fans on the road. SEZ needs to get done tomorrow.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

If they switch after that line, that's a 'firmly entrenched' moment, and I'd say they'd have more egg on their face than if they'd have left it at the other stuff.

What I am saying is... Notre Dame can say they probably aren't interested at the moment and mean it. Right now Texas A&M is still a member of the Big XII Conference. Now when A&M leaves (if they do end up leaving) everything changes and ND would then be free to change their mind if they want to. Nothing they said previously would make much difference because they are now dealing with the reality of the situation and not just speculation.

There is no guarantee what is going to happen following A&M's jump to the SEC. Will the SEC quickly snatch up a 14th team? Will they decide to expand to 16? What will the Big Ten do in response? The Pac 12? What happens to the Big East... do they get raided? IF the ACC gets raided do they then raid the Big East? Nothing is concrete right now because nobody knows what is going to happen. If the Big East crumbles what options will Notre Dame be looking at considering the NBC tv deal is so "vital" to their athletic dept as a whole? Now again... there is no guarantee that Notre Dame would join the Big XII but contrary to several posters in this thread there is no guarantee that Notre Dame would not join the Big XII either. Right now nothing has changed but in several weeks, months, or in the next year there could be some major changes that could help push ND in a different direction. For now... their AD's response was adequate. It wasn't an outright NO and it certainly left the door open if things change. For right now they are happy where they are but that doesn't mean it will remain that way forever.

 

[everyyard]

This is why home attendance will play a bigger roll moving forward. Geography will be out the door, and teams won`t bring near as many fans on the road. SEZ needs to get done tomorrow.

i am all for the SEZ, but if you think it will help isu in realignment you are mistaken. realignment is ONLY about TVs.

 

[Clark]

ND has the opportunity now to join a conference under ND's terms with network independence (i.e. NBC), scheduling flexibility (only 7 B12 conference games) and with the potential for continued alignment with NE schools for their other sports (I don't think Pitt will be the only NE school added to the B12 if ND says yes).

If they wait, they run the risk of 4 superconferences emerging and unable to join one of them on their terms. With all this superconference talk, ND is best off joining the B12 NOW.

ND terms aren't network independence, it's football independence. It's their whole identity. If ND wasn't joining a conference with all the hoopla that was going around last summer, why would they do it this summer? No, ND will wait because they know they are one of the few schools with the power to join whoever, whenever. If the Big 12 is willing to make these concessions now, why wouldn't they later?


Also, how exactly do you get 7 conference games in a 10 (or more) team league?

 

[Al_4_State]

ND terms aren't network independence, it's football independence. It's their whole identity. If ND wasn't joining a conference with all the hoopla that was going around last summer, why would they do it this summer? No, ND will wait because they know they are one of the few schools with the power to join whoever, whenever. If the Big 12 is willing to make these concessions now, why wouldn't they later?


Also, how exactly do you get 7 conference games in a 10 (or more) team league?

Go to 12, play your entire division (5 games) and 2 teams from the cross division.

 

[Clark]

Go to 12, play your entire division (5 games) and 2 teams from the cross division.

Are you just pointing out a way to play seven games or do you think that's the Big 12's plan? That few conference games would really limit the tv contract

 

[Sammy11]

Are you just pointing out a way to play seven games or do you think that's the Big 12's plan? That few conference games would really limit the tv contract

Not neccessarily as the TV contracts also cover non-con games. Scheduling tough home & home for 1 week would help minimize that impact if the addition of the Irish road games did not already do so.

 

[Ciclone]

Are you just pointing out a way to play seven games or do you think that's the Big 12's plan? That few conference games would really limit the tv contract

I don't think it will end up happening (not saying it's impossible either), but do you really think there'd be much limit to a TV contract with both Texas AND Notre Dame involved?

 

[Cyclonestate78]

ND terms aren't network independence, it's football independence. It's their whole identity. If ND wasn't joining a conference with all the hoopla that was going around last summer, why would they do it this summer? No, ND will wait because they know they are one of the few schools with the power to join whoever, whenever. If the Big 12 is willing to make these concessions now, why wouldn't they later?


Also, how exactly do you get 7 conference games in a 10 (or more) team league?

You are absolutely correct. Notre Dame can hold out and join any conference they want. They can certainly join the Big Ten, PAC 12, etc... if they want to lose their NBC tv deal which the AD said is "so vital to their athletics dept overall not just football". Or they can join the Big XII where they can keep that deal and even work to expand it as a Notre Dame Network through their partnership with NBC. Notre Dame isn't going to be able to remain an independent forever because the second a conference expands past 12 teams some ******* like Larry Scott or Jim Delaney will move to go to 16. Right now is the only time Notre Dame can control their own destiny without having to become the slaves of a d-bag like Larry Scott or Jim Delaney.

 

[Clark]

I don't think it will end up happening (not saying it's impossible either), but do you really think there'd be much limit to a TV contract with both Texas AND Notre Dame involved?

ND wouldn't be involved for the most part. You're allowing them to have their NBC deal remember.

There is a reason the Big 12 is moving to 9 conference games, the Pac 12 is keeping 9 conference games, and the Big 10 will be playing 9 conference games in the near future. Sure, if every team in the Big 12 went out and scheduled two other BCS teams, it wouldn't matter at all. Is that likely though? You really think Baylor, TTech, KSU, Kansas, etc are going to go out and schedule BCS teams, or are they going to pad their scheduleto get bowl eligible?

 

[Clark]

You are absolutely correct. Notre Dame can hold out and join any conference they want. They can certainly join the Big Ten, PAC 12, etc... if they want to lose their NBC tv deal which the AD said is "so vital to their athletics dept overall not just football". Or they can join the Big XII where they can keep that deal and even work to expand it as a Notre Dame Network through their partnership with NBC. Notre Dame isn't going to be able to remain an independent forever because the second a conference expands past 12 teams some ******* like Larry Scott or Jim Delaney will move to go to 16. Right now is the only time Notre Dame can control their own destiny without having to become the slaves of a d-bag like Larry Scott or Jim Delaney.

You think that the Big 12 wouldn't allow them to keep their NBC deal later? What, are they going to pull that offer off the table? I highly doubt it. That deal will still be there if **** hits the fan in a few years. There is no reason to join a conference right now.

 

[cykadelic2]

ND terms aren't network independence, it's football independence. It's their whole identity. If ND wasn't joining a conference with all the hoopla that was going around last summer, why would they do it this summer? No, ND will wait because they know they are one of the few schools with the power to join whoever, whenever. If the Big 12 is willing to make these concessions now, why wouldn't they later?


Also, how exactly do you get 7 conference games in a 10 (or more) team league?

FB Independence = Network Independence

The only serious conference overtures previously made to ND was from the B10 who would force ND to give up their NBC contract and 3rd tier rights. That was a deal breaker for ND.

Why this summer? Because the B12 plays by different rules. ND can keep their NBC contract and operate their own 3rd Tier network in the B12.

And the reason why ND needs to consider the B12 NOW is that the B12 may not exist when ND is forced to join a conference in the future. It could be now or never for ND to join a conference under their terms.

 

[aeroclone]

You are absolutely correct. Notre Dame can hold out and join any conference they want. They can certainly join the Big Ten, PAC 12, etc... if they want to lose their NBC tv deal which the AD said is "so vital to their athletics dept overall not just football". Or they can join the Big XII where they can keep that deal and even work to expand it as a Notre Dame Network through their partnership with NBC. Notre Dame isn't going to be able to remain an independent forever because the second a conference expands past 12 teams some ******* like Larry Scott or Jim Delaney will move to go to 16. Right now is the only time Notre Dame can control their own destiny without having to become the slaves of a d-bag like Larry Scott or Jim Delaney.

I think this is the key difference between this year and last year. For all the talk last year, nobody went past 12 teams, and the Big East and Big 12 were left in some viable form. With the move of aTm to the SEC, this is a whole different animal. The SEC won't want to stay at 13, so they either need to move to 14 or 16. Those additional teams will come at the expense of the Big 12, ACC, or Big East. The Big Ten will look to respond and also expand to 14 or 16 to make sure they can get their picks, and at that point the Big 12 is history so the Pac can swoop in and move to 16 as well. Where exactly ND ends up here doesn't really matter.

That leaves ND moving into a super conference where they don't have near the power and independence they could get from moving to the Big 12 today. This is the most independent long term option they have. A strong Big 12 with ND, BYU and a third is not going anywhere, and neither are any of its members. Without the Big 12 collapse the Pac has nowhere to grow, and it would seem a lot less likely that the Big Ten goes to 16 either. In this case, you may only see the SEC go to 14 by poaching the ACC, the ACC steals one from the Big East to stay at 12, and the Big East ends up right back at 8 where they started. ND keeps the NBC deal, launches their own network, and we setup a 7 game schedule to give them flexibility, and maybe find a way to assure an annual matchup with Texas with protected rivalries or something. For their other sports, they get a decent upgrade from the Big East.

ND has the option to dictate their own endgame here and protect their own interest right now, or have it dictated to them in a few years. The only way I can see this shaking out without ND being forced into a conference is if Arkansas comes to the Big 12 so that neither the Big 12 or the SEC needs to add any other teams, and I see no chance of that actually happening.