*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[Istate]

I think it's at a point where we have to hope that OU makes a surprising turn and sticks with Big 12 because that would buy us time. Unforunately, the ACC just became a stronger conference today. That means that right now the likely survivors in all of this are SEC, B1G, Pac, ACC, Big 12, Big East in that order. Limping into the Big East does nothing for us long term. We need to hope that B1G or Pac come calling. I'm not sure I want anything to do with the SEC.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Why would Texas ever want to leave?

1. Easy ride to championship
2. Has their own network
3. They run the conference

 

[cyman05]

I get why people throw rutgers out for expansion because they are a big school with AAU membership. They are the only major player in fertile new jersey recruiting. I get all of that.

But their athletic department is a train wreck. I read something in USA today this spring about athletic dept taking huge loans from university. They are a little above average in fb and forgettable in most other sports.

How can adding them raise a conference's profile enough to increase tv revenue? I would think it would be hard to justify for a conference, financially.

The Rutgers issue is easy. As we've all said, this is a money grab. You get more money from adding a team in 2 ways

1. They're in a major media market to turn on TV sets
2. They have a national brand which is based in football tradition to turn on TV sets

For Rutgers, they could never win another game, but they'll always be desirable because of the NYC TV market. Now...they don't actually deliver the NYC media market, but if you even get a fraction of that market, its still extremely sizable. Plus, if you can get even some NYC cable subscribers to get the Big 10 network, then it all pays off. Rutgers takes their paycheck and the other teams takes wins against them. Everybody wins...except the teams left on the outside.

 

[synapticwave]

I was originally responding to cyatheart who said the above that ISU would "NOT EVER" go to the Big10. And you are saying that there is no way the Big10 will take people they don't want. And I disagree with both. As I already said. If the PAC, SEC and ACC all have 16 and they approach the TV networks and say, we want a national championship and you guys to cover it and the networks all sign on. The Big10 can either decide they will not play for a national championship or they can go to 16 teams with two team that don't really add much but due to the added $$ from a national championship tourney don't cost you money either. Then it's a no brainer decision, you add 2 teams and you keep playing for national championships.

This situation is not probable, but it is definitely possible.

Agreed. They went like 15 years with 11 teams when common sense would say add another to get to 12. They will do whatever THEY want. Their brand is strong enough to sit at 12 when everyone else goes to 14 or 16.

+1...I don't really see the incentive to go to 16 teams just because everybody is doing it. If you're part of a 12 team Big 10, just let other conferences go to 14, 16, 18, or 20 because it means less conference champions you might have to compete with for a national championship. Let other leagues die off one by one and you might have a 30-40% shot at a national championship every year just because there aren't many other contenders.

If you're the Big 10, you're driven by money just like every other conference, and you only add teams if they add value.

I agree the big 10 won't add teams unless it is both logical and is financially viable. But I made the above quoted point earlier: If the other 3 conferences (SEC, PAC and ACC) all go to 16 teams and they come to the Big10 and say, "hey we've got this idea, let's have a tourney to crown the national champions. We talked to the TV networks and have worked out a deal that is worth $200M per year if you guys join us then we can do this, but to do this, you guys have to add 2 teams so we all have an equal chance at the championship."

If that happened, the big10 would have to decide between playing for national championships or adding 2 teams. It's a no brainer, they add 2 teams and get $50M extra per year.

I'm not saying that's probable, but it's definitely a possibility.

 

[Istate]

The more I think about it, the more it puts the strength back in the hands of UT. It makes less than Zero sense for OU and OSU to go to the PAC alone. As long as nobody else blinks (UT, Mizzou, KU, etc) then I think OU/OSU have to stay. Why would they want to be all alone 2 time zones away from the rest of their conference???

You do realize that time zones mean absolutely nothing in this. In reality, it actually helps conferences like the PAC or ACC. The Pac can now offer a solid 11 am cst start and fill slots all the way to 10 pm cst. That helps tv contracts. I'd love to end up in the Pac if Texas decides to try Independence. Take us, OU, OSU, and Tech. Perfect.

 

[im4cyclones]

I don't see how the PAC can stop at 14. Everyone else can but the PAC's only viable option in expansion is B12 teams and you cannot have 2 teams on an island (i.e. OU & OSU) 2 time zones away. That would be a death certificate for those teams.

If Larry Scott thinks PAC schools will get $25-30 million under new tv deal, would four new teams (if one is not Texas) cause networks to increase tv deal another $100 million per year? If not, it lowers each team's payout. I can't see any combination of b12 teams that would be worth it, aside from OU and Texas together.

 

[cyman05]

Why would Texas ever want to leave?

1. Easy ride to championship
2. Has their own network
3. They run the conference

They don't want to...that's why they're fighting like all they've got for the Big 12 to live. But if OU and OSU jump ship and maybe others, they have to question if being in the conference that has lost almost all prestige would be worth all the above that you've stated.

 

[ISUAgronomist]

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel

The ACC teleconference is at 9:30 a.m. They're not fooling around.

 

[isuno1fan]

You do realize that time zones mean absolutely nothing in this. In reality, it actually helps conferences like the PAC or ACC. The Pac can now offer a solid 11 am cst start and fill slots all the way to 10 pm cst. That helps tv contracts. I'd love to end up in the Pac if Texas decides to try Independence. Take us, OU, OSU, and Tech. Perfect.

If you take 4 to the PAC then it makes some level of sense. If you only take 2 then it will be a logistical nightmare for the non-revenue sports for OU/OSU. Not smart IMO.

In fact...Stupid.

 

[CycloneBax]

If the Big XII stays together, why wouldn't we add Temple to get the Philadelphia market. It would be equivalent to the B1G taking Rutgers

 

[cyman05]

I agree the big 10 won't add teams unless it is both logical and is financially viable. But I made the above quoted point earlier: If the other 3 conferences (SEC, PAC and ACC) all go to 16 teams and they come to the Big10 and say, "hey we've got this idea, let's have a tourney to crown the national champions. We talked to the TV networks and have worked out a deal that is worth $200M per year if you guys join us then we can do this, but to do this, you guys have to add 2 teams so we all have an equal chance at the championship."

If that happened, the big10 would have to decide between playing for national championships or adding 2 teams. It's a no brainer, they add 2 teams and get $50M extra per year.

I'm not saying that's probable, but it's definitely a possibility.

Good points, except they could set up a playoff like it is now with 12 team conferences. I don't think the size of conferences has anything to do with having playoffs or not.

 

[hurdleisu24]

TCU and Boise apparently could be the teams joining OU and OSU. There is an article on NBC Sports that is kind interesting as they break down what they think. If someone could post that ( i can't) it throws some interesting things out

 

[im4cyclones]

The Rutgers issue is easy. As we've all said, this is a money grab. You get more money from adding a team in 2 ways

1. They're in a major media market to turn on TV sets
2. They have a national brand which is based in football tradition to turn on TV sets

For Rutgers, they could never win another game, but they'll always be desirable because of the NYC TV market. Now...they don't actually deliver the NYC media market, but if you even get a fraction of that market, its still extremely sizable. Plus, if you can get even some NYC cable subscribers to get the Big 10 network, then it all pays off. Rutgers takes their paycheck and the other teams takes wins against them. Everybody wins...except the teams left on the outside.

But if that were true, someone would have jumped at chance to get them. Why didn't b10 take them when they were already expanding? I really don't see that they are that desirable. They may get added somewhere as an after-thought. But if they really could deliver "the New York market" then the b10 and acc are fools.

Except I don't think they are.

 

[cyman05]

PeteThamelNYT Pete Thamel

The ACC teleconference is at 9:30 a.m. They're not fooling around.

I think Syracuse and Pitt have learned a thing from the Big 12 saga. Keep it under wraps and get this thing done before anyone can find out about it so other teams don't have time to sue you yet.

 

[cyatheart]

TCU and Boise apparently could be the teams joining OU and OSU. There is an article on NBC Sports that is kind interesting as they break down what they think. If someone could post that ( i can't) it throws some interesting things out

Boise is not going to the Pac whatever. Will never happen.

 

[ISUAgronomist]

Boise is not going to the Pac whatever. Will never happen.

Agreed. They just do not belong in any major conference due to admittance of partial qualifiers.

 

[ISUAgronomist]

12000

 

[jdoggivjc]

1. They're in a major media market to turn on TV sets
2. They have a national brand which is based in football tradition to turn on TV sets

1. Rutgers DOES NOT ADD New York or New Jersey TV sets. Just because they're there doesn't mean people give a **** there - as a former New Yorker I can guarantee they don't. Rutgers does not have the power to get the BTN on basic tier any of New Jersey or New York's cable providers. If they did, it would have been Rutgers and not Nebraska joining the conference last year.

2. When did Rutgers become a national brand based on football? When they had their one 11-2 season completed by winning the Texas Bowl in 2006? That was the one and only year in the last decade they finished in the AP top 25. Some national football brand...

 

[hurdleisu24]

Boise is not going to the Pac whatever. Will never happen.

Im just saying what is in the nbcsports article

 

[cyman05]

But if that were true, someone would have jumped at chance to get them. Why didn't b10 take them when they were already expanding? I really don't see that they are that desirable. They may get added somewhere as an after-thought. But if they really could deliver "the New York market" then the b10 and acc are fools.

Except I don't think they are.

I think the folks at the Big 10 figured out that on a national scale, Nebraska can turn on more TV sets across the country with their tradition, than Rutgers can turn on in a fraction of the ginormous TV market in NYC with their local connection.

So was Nebraska more desirable than Rutgers? Yes. Will Rutgers always have a safe home somewhere if conferences go to 16 because of their local market? Yes.