*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[shagcarpetjesus]

OU/OSU aren't bluffing. Larry Scott wants the OU brand badly for football, yes we arent a big market but we are the bluest of blue bloods in the sport.

I don't doubt that Larry Scott wants OU in the PAC-whatever. But I still have yet to see a reasonable explanation for how Larry Scott is going to sell Arizona & Arizona State (and also Utah and Colorado to some extent) on voting for further expansion when they get placed in a division which severely severs their recruiting ties to Cali. ASU & UofA do not want to be placed in a PAC-16 East Division where they won't even play a football game in California on a yearly basis.

Unless things changed when they expanded initially, I'm pretty sure that all members of the PAC have to vote unanimously to expand. I'm not so sure ASU and UofA are going to eagerly take one for the team to welcome the Sooners & Cowboys.

 

[hawkfan]

Boomer, what does OU gain in the Pac?

Recruiting? You already pull top 5 recruiting classes with your Texas base.

Money? Big 12 contracts will be huge if you stay. You're already loaded.

Power? You'll lose some of your power.

Getting away from Texas? There's a solid chance they would follow.

Making Texas an equal? You can do that here.

I can't see a rational/logical reason for the move. I'm not saying this because I'm worried about ISU (I'm not at all), but I just don't see any logic.

This entire thing ultimately is about power.

OU feels that, regardless of what they do, UT will ALWAYS have more power than they do in the Big 12. In the Big 12, it is inevitable that Texas will be king.

In the PAC 16 revenue is shared equally and there are other "kings" to equal Texas....schools such as USC & Stanford instantly come to mind.

If Texas enters the PAC 16 they do so under the conditions that all are equal....that will NEVER be the case in the Big 12.

My opinion is that OU sees the PAC 16 as an opportunity to forever equalize the power gap between OU & Texas.

 

[boone7247]

If so, who is the "guiding hand" orchestrating these things? ESPN? They are the common party in all these events. Certainly not the NCAA. No individual party, even gargantuan Texas, has the ability to move anyone more than themselves or one traveling partner at most...

Complete speculation on my part. But the entity that gains the most by consolidating college football is the NFL. It would allow for more national marketing of marquee players, inflating their value before they get to the NFL. Also there are 32 NFL teams and 64 is divisible by 32. Wonder if the NFL has pushed for this as a slow move towards a minor league system.

When you think about it most football players at the great teams are there to try to make it to the NFL. They aren't there for a college degree. So how long until some kid sues the NFL because they aren't smart enough to get into a college to realize their dream of making it to the NFL. I think we are working our way to that point. If we are going to start paying college athletes then wouldn't the next step beyond that point just be coming up with a minor league system and scrapping the current college football system. Currently the NFL doesn't have to develop players, it is done by colleges, but if the profit from doing this goes away, i.e. paying players, then why would universities continue to pay the price.

Just a thought and completely out of left field.

 

[Al_4_State]

This entire thing ultimately is about power.

OU feels that, regardless of what they do, UT will ALWAYS have more power than they do in the Big 12. In the Big 12, it is inevitable that Texas will be king.

In the PAC 16 revenue is shared equally and there are other "kings" to equal Texas....schools such as USC & Stanford instantly come to mind.

If Texas enters the PAC 16 they do so under the conditions that all are equal....that will NEVER be the case in the Big 12.

My opinion is that OU sees the PAC 16 as an opportunity to forever equalize the power gap between OU & Texas.

Texas and OU are going to have to submit to equal revenue sharing eventually any way.

Why not do it in their own league where all their travel is in the same time zone against schools they have played for years?

Again, NO logic in this move.

 

[bgprest]

Unless things changed when they expanded initially, I'm pretty sure that all members of the PAC have to vote unanimously to expand. I'm not so sure ASU and UofA are going to eagerly take one for the team to welcome the Sooners & Cowboys.

I thought it had to be unanimous as well but just today I'm starting to hear they need just 9 of 12 to accept new teams.

 

[jdoggivjc]

OU/OSU aren't bluffing. Larry Scott wants the OU brand badly for football, yes we arent a big market but we are the bluest of blue bloods in the sport.

This WILL work out for ISU. The only one who should be nervous is Baylor. Your AAU status is huge

I've always thought far too many of our own fans sold ISU's academics way too short, however, I'm interested in hearing why an outsider thinks ISU's AAU status is huge.

 

[Wesley]

The frustrating thing for us right now is the other schools in our conference are waffling. We are held hostage by their indecision. Dominos are falling all around us, and the decision makers in our conference are still standing around with their pants down arguing about who's junk is more awesome. We are left sitting on the couch waiting for the QB to call us, while he is out screwing the other teams cheerleaders.

They are only waffling to our faces. Behind the scenes.....

 

[Yes13]

This entire thing ultimately is about power.

OU feels that, regardless of what they do, UT will ALWAYS have more power than they do in the Big 12. In the Big 12, it is inevitable that Texas will be king.

In the PAC 16 revenue is shared equally and there are other "kings" to equal Texas....schools such as USC & Stanford instantly come to mind.

If Texas enters the PAC 16 they do so under the conditions that all are equal....that will NEVER be the case in the Big 12.

My opinion is that OU sees the PAC 16 as an opportunity to forever equalize the power gap between OU & Texas.

lol, god the Pac 12 sucks.

 

[Wesley]

Why pods instead of divisions? Have heard that before but haven't heard it explained. An interesting idea...

PODS can be loaded in a uhaul and moved easier than divisions.

 

[cykadelic2]

I don't doubt that Larry Scott wants OU in the PAC-whatever. But I still have yet to see a reasonable explanation for how Larry Scott is going to sell Arizona & Arizona State (and also Utah and Colorado to some extent) on voting for further expansion when they get placed in a division which severely severs their recruiting ties to Cali. ASU & UofA do not want to be placed in a PAC-16 East Division where they won't even play a football game in California on a yearly basis.

The new P16 will not have two divisions. They will have 4 pods for scheduling purposes, likely as follows:

UW/Wazzu/OU/OSU
Cal/Stanford/UCLA/USC
AZ/ASU/UU/CU
UT/OU/TT/OSU

Using UT as an example, they would play OU, TT and OSU each season (3 games)

For pod #1, they would play one of the Washington schools and one of the Oregon schools each season.

For pod #2, they would play one of the Bay Area schools and one of the LA schools each season.

For pod #3, they would play one of the Zona schools and one of the Rockies schools each season.

That would be 9 conference games each season with a guarantee of playing in CA once every season and playing in LA twice (once against USC and once against UCLA) during a four-year rotation.

With no divisions, the top two teams out of 16 will play in the FB championship game.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

This entire thing ultimately is about power.

OU feels that, regardless of what they do, UT will ALWAYS have more power than they do in the Big 12. In the Big 12, it is inevitable that Texas will be king.

In the PAC 16 revenue is shared equally and there are other "kings" to equal Texas....schools such as USC & Stanford instantly come to mind.

If Texas enters the PAC 16 they do so under the conditions that all are equal....that will NEVER be the case in the Big 12.

My opinion is that OU sees the PAC 16 as an opportunity to forever equalize the power gap between OU & Texas.

If the folks in charge at OU honestly believe that this is true then they need to seriously lay off the meth. UT is a force in college athletics the likes of which has never been seen before. Equal revenue sharing doesn't even come close to meaning equal power.

 

[hawkfan]

Texas and OU are going to have to submit to equal revenue sharing eventually any way.

Why? I guess that is where I see this making sense for OU.

I don't see ANY way Texas ever agrees to equal revenue sharing in the Big 12, which is ultimately why I think OU is splitting for the PAC.

 

[boone7247]

This entire thing ultimately is about power.

OU feels that, regardless of what they do, UT will ALWAYS have more power than they do in the Big 12. In the Big 12, it is inevitable that Texas will be king.

In the PAC 16 revenue is shared equally and there are other "kings" to equal Texas....schools such as USC & Stanford instantly come to mind.

If Texas enters the PAC 16 they do so under the conditions that all are equal....that will NEVER be the case in the Big 12.

My opinion is that OU sees the PAC 16 as an opportunity to forever equalize the power gap between OU & Texas.

Maybe that equals the power versus UT but it sure has hell doesn't make OU more powerfull. If anything they go from being # 2 to being #4 at best. And you could argue OU would be much lower than that due to the fact they don't have a very distinguished academic record (not saying they are bad) but they aren't Berkley either.

PAC 16 Power Rankings (not football but clout)
UT
USC
Stanford
OU/Washington

 

[CycloneErik]

Why? I guess that is where I see this making sense for OU.

I don't see ANY way Texas ever agrees to equal revenue sharing in the Big 12, which is ultimately why I think OU is splitting for the PAC.

Logically speaking, why agree to it in a new conference as opposed to the current conference (unless you're relating that to a loss of power in their present situation, which would be an interesting argument to make)?

 

[Al_4_State]

Why? I guess that is where I see this making sense for OU.

I don't see ANY way Texas ever agrees to equal revenue sharing in the Big 12, which is ultimately why I think OU is splitting for the PAC.

If Texas doesn't agree to revenue sharing in the Big 12, they're going to be driven to the Pac, where they will have to agree to revenue sharing.

Why not just agree to revenue sharing in the Big 12 when they're going to have to do it anyways upon moving to the Pac?

Travel costs will be much lower, and revenue potential will be about the same.

 

[hawkfan]

Equal revenue sharing doesn't even come close to meaning equal power.

I agree with this, however, equal revenue sharing does at least give off the perception of equality. What the current Big 12 agreement does is show blatantly who is in charge.

More important than the equal revenue sharing is perhaps the fact that Texas will now be joining a conference where there is a state LARGER than Texas - quite a bit larger actually.

The significance of that is HUGE. Right now UT feels it is owed something in the Big 12 because if it left the conference would crumble. That wouldn't be the case in the PAC.

In fact, California has more TV households than the state of Texas does, so now all of a sudden UT goes from having a clear demographic edge in the Big 12 to having more demographic equality in the PAC - that is ultimately what I think OU wants....for the state of Texas to have a demographic equal in whatever conference it ends up in - which makes the PAC the only conference that makes any sense.

 

[Wesley]

Totally agree. The b10 won't be forced to do anything. It took them something like 15 years to add one team to get a conference championship game. I don't think they feel there is a team that would be untouchable for them - new acc or not. If they wanted Maryland in 2 or 3 years, I think b10 is arrogant enough to think they could get them.

I do not now if nebby or Iowa would want us in their high academic league since we play them well on the field...

 

[CycloneChris]

The new P16 will not have two divisions. They will have 4 pods for scheduling purposes, likely as follows:

UW/Wazzu/OU/OSU
Cal/Stanford/UCLA/USC
AZ/ASU/UU/CU
UT/OU/TT/OSU

Using UT as an example, they would play OU, TT and OSU each season (3 games)

For pod #1, they would play one of the Washington schools and one of the Oregon schools each season.

For pod #2, they would play one of the Bay Area schools and one of the LA schools each season.

For pod #3, they would play one of the Zona schools and one of the Rockies schools each season.

That would be 9 conference games each season with a guarantee of playing in CA every season and playing in LA twice (once against USC and once against UCLA) during a four-year rotation.

With no divisions, the top two teams out of 16 will play in the FB championship game.

You haven't really thought this out very well.

 

[boone7247]

The new P16 will not have two divisions. They will have 4 pods for scheduling purposes, likely as follows:

UW/Wazzu/OU/OSU
Cal/Stanford/UCLA/USC
AZ/ASU/UU/CU
UT/OU/TT/OSU

Using UT as an example, they would play OU, TT and OSU each season (3 games)

For pod #1, they would play one of the Washington schools and one of the Oregon schools each season.

For pod #2, they would play one of the Bay Area schools and one of the LA schools each season.

For pod #3, they would play one of the Zona schools and one of the Rockies schools each season.

That would be 9 conference games each season with a guarantee of playing in CA once every season and playing in LA twice (once against USC and once against UCLA) during a four-year rotation.

With no divisions, the top two teams out of 16 will play in the FB championship game.

Give me a tie breaker in this scenario. It would have to be crazy long.

 

[Wesley]

bobfescoe Bob Fescoe



No lock for MU and KU to stay if OU remains in big 12 hearing ACC intrigues KU AND SEC intrigues MU. stay tuned it changes by the minute

Quick, check where the planes are flying.