*****The Super, Mega, Huge Big 12 Expansion Thread*****

[scyclonekid]

I would not have a problem with ND as a non- football member in 2013-2015 if they agreed UP FRONT to become a full member in 2016.

Exactly what I was thinking make them sign a contract that states that. If ND signs it then lets say does not full fill the contract kick them out, no reason to do a gentlemen handshake. I understand their contract now till 2015, but at the same time really wish if it happens prefer them to be full members than partial.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

Do you really think UNC, Virgina, or Maryland will bolt on the ACC? I don't. There have been rumors of GA Tech and VA Tech involved in the realignment discussions and think those are far more likely.

My comment was based on my perception (right or wrong) that Pitt is a far more natural and historical rival for ND than the ones you mentioned. Example, would ND be more enticed at playing Pitt every year or say Maryland? My thought would be Pitt; so if having Pitt as a conference rivals is what causes ND to finally jump aboard then I'd be for it.

Yes, I think UNC/UVA/UMD would be willing to bolt the ACC, for many of the same reasons as the other schools that have been mentioned. Why wouldn't they when the alternative is to remain in a league that is being increasingly excluded from the big boys' table and nets them less revenue? I can only imagine that their propensity to leave the ACC would increase with every additional school that departs the conference.

I think Agronomist is correct about the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University and the SEC having mutual interests. I'd include UNC or NC State in that category as well, as both NC and VA are big media markets that the SEC is not yet in. Those schools' only pause in deciding whether to jump ship may be to see if the SEC comes a-knocking first.

If/when ND joins a conference, there's simply no way they'll be able to keep all of their rivalries, even if they join the Big Ten. My guess is that Pitt would be one that gets the axe, so I doubt that would be a big factor when ND is deciding which conference to join.

 

[chadm]

Yes, I think UNC/UVA/UMD would be willing to bolt the ACC, for many of the same reasons as the other schools that have been mentioned. Why wouldn't they when the alternative is to remain in a league that is being increasingly excluded from the big boys' table and nets them less revenue? I can only imagine that their propensity to leave the ACC would increase with every additional school that departs the conference.

I think Agronomist is correct about the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University and the SEC having mutual interests. I'd include UNC or NC State in that category as well, as both NC and VA are big media markets that the SEC is not yet in. Those schools' only pause in deciding whether to jump ship may be to see if the SEC comes a-knocking first.

If/when ND joins a conference, there's simply no way they'll be able to keep all of their rivalries, even if they join the Big Ten. My guess is that Pitt would be one that gets the axe, so I doubt that would be a big factor when ND is deciding which conference to join.

Isn't part of the issue with Clemson and FSU with the ACC that the basketball schools kept tier 3 rights and not for football?

 

[ISUAgronomist]

I would be fine with a phased entrance if they need to to accomodate the transition. But they need to have it in ink (with penalties for backing out later) that they'll become full members by a certain date. Dont give them the benefits of a conference without the full commitment.

Could they even do this or would it violate some terms in their agreement with NBC?

 

[scyclonekid]

So lets say FSU, Clemson, Louisville, Pitt join what type of money is all members looking at? I have seen so many different scenario's. Or if even ND is in the fold?

 

[CyFan61]

I think Agronomist is correct about the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University and the SEC having mutual interests. I'd include UNC or NC State in that category as well, as both NC and VA are big media markets that the SEC is not yet in. Those schools' only pause in deciding whether to jump ship may be to see if the SEC comes a-knocking first.

This is what interests me now. It's pretty clear that Virginia Tech and NC State would be #15 and #16 for the SEC, whenever that happens. However, it's clear that Virginia Tech is a valuable addition to a conference and has to be in the discussions for Big 12 expansion right now. If you are VaTech, do you join the Big 12 to save yourself from the sinking ship that is the ACC, or do you wait it out for the perceived bigger prize of the SEC? I don't know what I'd do if I were them.

Perhaps, this was all part of the backroom talks between conferences. Slive, Neinas, and Bowlsby could have plotted this out when planning the Champions Bowl. The Big 12 may have made a gentleman's agreement to keep our hands off of Virginia Tech. The SEC needs to break the ACC and get UVA out of the picture, because Virginia politics tie those schools together. So we handle that, get our ACC schools, allowing the SEC to walk in and take VaTech with no trouble.

The SEC knows who they want for #15 and #16, they just aren't ready to move yet. A theory...

 

[CycloneErik]

Isn't part of the issue with Clemson and FSU with the ACC that the basketball schools kept tier 3 rights and not for football?

Yup. Florida State seems to feel that they could do OK with tier 3 rights for football.

 

[CyFan61]

So lets say FSU, Clemson, Louisville, Pitt join what type of money is all members looking at? I have seen so many different scenario's. Or if even ND is in the fold?

Neighborhood of $30 million/school has been tossed around. The sheer money involved is crazy. A 10-year contract worth $30 mil/year per school would have a value of $4.2 billion for the conference.

 

[scyclonekid]

If half of the ACC teams left then I could see a merger with Big East to create a super basketball conference, would Syracuse be okay with this? Or would they leave as well. Not saying our conference for bball sucks, its just the media always has the Big East as the bball conference.

 

[scyclonekid]

I was just surprised that the ACC included all tiers with their new contract. Hence the reason the more football schools want to leave or looking to leave.

 

[cycfan1]

From Shaggy...

I'm working on a more in-depth story, but the reason Texas is tapping the brakes on any frenzy about other school additions (Fla St, Clemson, etc) is because DeLoss Dodds is convinced Notre Dame is moving to the Big 12. Initially, it was ND's non-football sports. But now, there could be some formula built into the Big 12 that would allow ND to function - at least in the short term - with its NBC contract in tact before being phased into the Big 12 as a whole football member.

DeLoss, I'm told, wants that ironed out before anything else gets ironed out. It's complicated. But it's fascinating.

The top priority is Notre Dame (at least in Texas' eyes) and then everything else.

I know that one other factor necessary for ND's consideration is that they want a minimum of 4 OCC games, and 5 would be better. That requires a small conference (12, 5division games & 2-3 cross division games) or a pod system with 16( which has NEVER been successfully done long term before). This is a major limiting factor, and will require some compromise probably on both sides parts. The 16 might be easier, but is way riskier. Adding some of ND's traditional rivals might be part of the process. GT and Miami would be the obvious ones, and I'm not sure where Miami's administrative head is at. They are about to get slammed hard by the NCAA. Their administration is talking about reducing their athletic funding and emphasis. And their relevant historical financial data (attendance, etc.) is trending downward so that they won't be able to keep up in facilities or top level coaches, becoming only a coaching stop rather than a destination. Their current status is no worse than some of our current members, except their infractions record is way worse, and the trends are equally bad, and then the forthcoming penalties. That's a lot of negatives to overcome, and a lot for the B12 to swallow. They would ONLY be invited as part of a ND package, & ND would have to sign first.

Not sure what other items would have to be worked out, or who else would be attractive or tolerable to both ND & the B12. NCAA might have to change rules to allow 16 teams on a pod system with rotating divisions for the championship, not sure.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

If half of the ACC teams left then I could see a merger with Big East to create a super basketball conference, would Syracuse be okay with this? Or would they leave as well. Not saying our conference for bball sucks, its just the media always has the Big East as the bball conference.

Would they have a choice? Their only ticket out of town would be if the Big Ten felt pity and threw them a life preserver. Their football program isn't much of an asset to any of the power conferences.

 

[scyclonekid]

ND the main priority?

 

[DistrictCyclone]

Isn't part of the issue with Clemson and FSU with the ACC that the basketball schools kept tier 3 rights and not for football?

As I understand it, this is the issue, yes, but it's a straw man argument (i.e., FSU's gripe is unfounded). Individual schools in the ACC control their third-tier rights for select, individual games only if ESPN allows them to. And from what's written in this blog post, that doesn't include the vast majority of MBB games.

 

[scyclonekid]

So who would be the 12th member then or would it be just 11 for now?

 

[Rockman]

If Pitt comes here I will have to pick pick up the WVU chant and say "eat **** pitt"

:yes:

 

[RustShack]

ND and Florida State. Let's do this!

 

[Clonehomer]

From Shaggy...

I'm working on a more in-depth story, but the reason Texas is tapping the brakes on any frenzy about other school additions (Fla St, Clemson, etc) is because DeLoss Dodds is convinced Notre Dame is moving to the Big 12. Initially, it was ND's non-football sports. But now, there could be some formula built into the Big 12 that would allow ND to function - at least in the short term - with its NBC contract in tact before being phased into the Big 12 as a whole football member.

DeLoss, I'm told, wants that ironed out before anything else gets ironed out. It's complicated. But it's fascinating.

The top priority is Notre Dame (at least in Texas' eyes) and then everything else.

I know that one other factor necessary for ND's consideration is that they want a minimum of 4 OCC games, and 5 would be better. That requires a small conference (12, 5division games & 2-3 cross division games) or a pod system with 16( which has NEVER been successfully done long term before). This is a major limiting factor, and will require some compromise probably on both sides parts. The 16 might be easier, but is way riskier. Adding some of ND's traditional rivals might be part of the process. GT and Miami would be the obvious ones, and I'm not sure where Miami's administrative head is at. They are about to get slammed hard by the NCAA. Their administration is talking about reducing their athletic funding and emphasis. And their relevant historical financial data (attendance, etc.) is trending downward so that they won't be able to keep up in facilities or top level coaches, becoming only a coaching stop rather than a destination. Their current status is no worse than some of our current members, except their infractions record is way worse, and the trends are equally bad, and then the forthcoming penalties. That's a lot of negatives to overcome, and a lot for the B12 to swallow. They would ONLY be invited as part of a ND package, & ND would have to sign first.

Not sure what other items would have to be worked out, or who else would be attractive or tolerable to both ND & the B12. NCAA might have to change rules to allow 16 teams on a pod system with rotating divisions for the championship, not sure.

Interesting. Who would be the 12th with ND? I don't see FSU or Clemson without another ACC school. So that leaves Pitt or Louisville. I know ND is the big fish, but is the ND / Pitt combo really that much better than FSU / Clemson? It seems we're going to end up with giving so many concessions to ND that we'd be better off going to 12 now and taking ND as 13 in 2016. Even if you take the ND as partial now, I don't see a reason that this would hold up the other additions.

 

[CycloneErik]

OK, let's do Florida State, Clemson, ND, and Virginia Tech.

 

[cyman05]

From Shaggy...

I'm working on a more in-depth story, but the reason Texas is tapping the brakes on any frenzy about other school additions (Fla St, Clemson, etc) is because DeLoss Dodds is convinced Notre Dame is moving to the Big 12. Initially, it was ND's non-football sports. But now, there could be some formula built into the Big 12 that would allow ND to function - at least in the short term - with its NBC contract in tact before being phased into the Big 12 as a whole football member.

DeLoss, I'm told, wants that ironed out before anything else gets ironed out. It's complicated. But it's fascinating.

The top priority is Notre Dame (at least in Texas' eyes) and then everything else.

I know that one other factor necessary for ND's consideration is that they want a minimum of 4 OCC games, and 5 would be better. That requires a small conference (12, 5division games & 2-3 cross division games) or a pod system with 16( which has NEVER been successfully done long term before). This is a major limiting factor, and will require some compromise probably on both sides parts. The 16 might be easier, but is way riskier. Adding some of ND's traditional rivals might be part of the process. GT and Miami would be the obvious ones, and I'm not sure where Miami's administrative head is at. They are about to get slammed hard by the NCAA. Their administration is talking about reducing their athletic funding and emphasis. And their relevant historical financial data (attendance, etc.) is trending downward so that they won't be able to keep up in facilities or top level coaches, becoming only a coaching stop rather than a destination. Their current status is no worse than some of our current members, except their infractions record is way worse, and the trends are equally bad, and then the forthcoming penalties. That's a lot of negatives to overcome, and a lot for the B12 to swallow. They would ONLY be invited as part of a ND package, & ND would have to sign first.

Not sure what other items would have to be worked out, or who else would be attractive or tolerable to both ND & the B12. NCAA might have to change rules to allow 16 teams on a pod system with rotating divisions for the championship, not sure.

I'd love to have ND, and there are a bunch of reasons it would make sense (Texas [and FSU?] recruiting, ability to have own TV network, could choose some schools to bring with them), but let's be real. Notre Dame won't join a conference until they get screwed by a new playoff structure that is already put in place.