Calling all Xs and Os gurus

[psychlone99]

Wartknight and co. I was both amazed and frightened by this Grantland piece that CW linked to in his OSU preview. I've heard and read of these offensive concepts before, but Grantland did a great job of breaking it down. It was truly eye-opening.

My question: How widespread is this offensive approach in college football currently? How many offensive coordinators have a similar approach? Do we have similar concepts in our offensive package that aren't quite as obvious?

It's hard not to look at this and wonder how far behind the curve we might be in terms of the future of offense in college football. Color me fascinated...

 

[Doc]

Wartknight and co. I was both amazed and frightened by this Grantland piece that CW linked to in his OSU preview. I've heard and read of these offensive concepts before, but Grantland did a great job of breaking it down. It was truly eye-opening.

My question: How widespread is this offensive approach in college football currently? How many offensive coordinators have a similar approach? Do we have similar concepts in our offensive package that aren't quite as obvious?

It's hard not to look at this and wonder how far behind the curve we might be in terms of the future of offense in college football. Color me fascinated...

Not a guru by any means, but I do believe we utilize at least one of these package plays (and probably more that I don't recognize). That short throw Barnett made to Brun a few times last game is one of these type of plays.

 

[megamanxzero35]

I think when we move to that up tempo offense, I bet we are only running 1-2 package plays. I'm not a guru but when we are able to get a first down we usually move into the no huddle, up tempo offense. If you watch, the plays we execute are always fast strike plays. I'm not a guru but I bet those are package plays.

 

[besserheimerphat]

The problem is that without either really studying the film or having inside knowledge, you'll never know if we run the packaged plays or not. Watching at game speed either at the game or on TV, without being having that background knowledge or being able to watch a single play over and over, it's too hard to tell. The fact that this stuff is in a widely read webpage like Grantland though means it's not new anymore. Coaches talk a LOT in the offseason, and new wrinkles/ideas/philosophies make the rounds quickly. There are no secrets in football.

 

[Doc]

I think when we move to that up tempo offense, I bet we are only running 1-2 package plays. I'm not a guru but when we are able to get a first down we usually move into the no huddle, up tempo offense. If you watch, the plays we execute are always fast strike plays. I'm not a guru but I bet those are package plays.

Yeah, this. It's not that they always run a simple zone read after a first down -- it's just what was given by the defense and it's not being executed that well.

 

[psychlone99]

The zone read is one thing. Not that it's easy to execute effectively- it clearly isn't. But I'm curious to know if we have anything like the stick-draw or stick-screen package plays that are highlighted in the Grantland piece. To me, that seems like a whole different level of offensive complexity (or simplicity, depending on your perspective).

 

[justcynn]

Xs and Os or Jim's and joes. Any scheme takes great players. Leech is the best example of scheme working with different players. Okie state is close. We'll find out Saturday if they can plug and play inexperience and produce based on scheme against the best defense they have faced since the last meeting in Ames.

 

[Tre4ISU]

The zone read is one thing. Not that it's easy to execute effectively- it clearly isn't. But I'm curious to know if we have anything like the stick-draw or stick-screen package plays that are highlighted in the Grantland piece. To me, that seems like a whole different level of offensive complexity (or simplicity, depending on your perspective).

I am pretty sure we have run a few of these. I think there was a screen against TCU to Young that was one of these. It's getting to be pretty widespread at this point.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Does anyone know how many zone read plays, if any, Okie State runs? I don't remember Weeden ever running on us so I would be lead to assume that they usually run the run pass option play that Grantland described, as an alternative to our zone read heavy scheme.

 

[Doc]

The zone read is one thing. Not that it's easy to execute effectively- it clearly isn't. But I'm curious to know if we have anything like the stick-draw or stick-screen package plays that are highlighted in the Grantland piece. To me, that seems like a whole different level of offensive complexity (or simplicity, depending on your perspective).

This is not scary compared to the zone read in its heyday. At least in my opinion.

 

[d4nim4l]

I don't believe we run exactly the stick-draw type of concept but we have a number of plays that are runs with checks to screens or quick hitters depending how a few members of the defense line up/move at the snap.

Stick-draw is not nearly as simple as that article makes it out to be and Weeden made it look deadly with the quick reads and athletes around him. There were multiple times in last year's game where he made a bad read because either Klein or Knott would bluff their decision. That's from a 28 year old two year starter. From what I have read the freshmen quarterbacks for OSU have both struggled with this at times this year.

 

[CyFan61]

Wartknight and co. I was both amazed and frightened by this Grantland piece that CW linked to in his OSU preview. I've heard and read of these offensive concepts before, but Grantland did a great job of breaking it down. It was truly eye-opening.

My question: How widespread is this offensive approach in college football currently? How many offensive coordinators have a similar approach? Do we have similar concepts in our offensive package that aren't quite as obvious?

It's hard not to look at this and wonder how far behind the curve we might be in terms of the future of offense in college football. Color me fascinated...

I wouldn't be so worried about ISU being behind the curve, if I were you. I don't think this concept is as revolutionary as the article seems to suggest. I'm sure Iowa State has incorporated some of the same elements, that work within our system.

 

[Ficklone02]

I don't believe we run exactly the stick-draw type of concept but we have a number of plays that are runs with checks to screens or quick hitters depending how a few members of the defense line up/move at the snap.

Stick-draw is not nearly as simple as that article makes it out to be and Weeden made it look deadly with the quick reads and athletes around him. There were multiple times in last year's game where he made a bad read because either Klein or Knott would bluff their decision. That's from a 28 year old two year starter. From what I have read the freshmen quarterbacks for OSU have both struggled with this at times this year.

I've noticed AJ is pretty good at conceiling what he's doing....which several times has turned into pick 6's for him. Which I'm guessing comes from the small coaching points from Wally that make it successfull. Nothing an offense does like that scares me as long we have Wally...as long as he's around I'm only worried about getting outtalented.

 

[pulse]

And we have Wally.

 

[cydline2cydline]

Not a guru by any means, but I do believe we utilize at least one of these package plays (and probably more that I don't recognize). That short throw Barnett made to Brun a few times last game is one of these type of plays.

I would agree with this. It seems like we pass if the lb scrapes else we run the zone read. Though we must block the DL because there is no way we expect our QB to read both.

To me this seems like a more effective play than OSU draw/pass as a lb could take a few steps to coverage but still make a play on the run. I suppose this would be most effective if the lb blitzes, but we dont blitz much so maybe that is why it wasn't as effective on us?

 

[megamanxzero35]

I should note, didn't Barnett specifically mention a play like this after TCU? When he talked about Lenz giving him a single about how a LB was lined up for a quick hit pass, Barnett said he checked the LB to see and agreed on the pass to Lenz. I think Barnett either prefaced it with or ended his comments with that a run play was called.

 

[wartknight]

We have been doing this at the HS level in Iowa for at least 3 years and I know small colleges in the state have been doing it for longer, and if you watch replays of ISU, you will see these "packages" being run.
Out of a 3x1, the typical zone read/option would first read EMLOS for the zone read, then the alley player for the bubble or now screen.
As these plays have been packaged, they allow the qb to flip that read and throw the bubble/now right away if the offense has numbers to the trips side. Then the third aspect to this is if the defense is in man coverage or has an extra guy to the trips, there will be some sort of "free access" route on the single WR side. Usually a gameplanned, situational route. Really the QB is the only player that knows where the play is going. OL is blocking their run play. 3 WR side is blocking their screen. Single WR is running his free access. All you need to run it is a QB who can count to 3 (defenders) and it allows offenses to have tons of options off 1 play in a hurry-up setting.

 

[VeloClone]

Does anyone know how many zone read plays, if any, Okie State runs? I don't remember Weeden ever running on us so I would be lead to assume that they usually run the run pass option play that Grantland described, as an alternative to our zone read heavy scheme.

Unlike Weeden, Walsh will run; I'm not sure if it is the zone read. It's a small sample size of just 27 carries but he is averaging 7.7 yards a carry.

I should note, didn't Barnett specifically mention a play like this after TCU? When he talked about Lenz giving him a single about how a LB was lined up for a quick hit pass, Barnett said he checked the LB to see and agreed on the pass to Lenz. I think Barnett either prefaced it with or ended his comments with that a run play was called.

The difference there is that that was essentially changing the call before the snap with the WR and QB agreeing on a change of route and a quick pass rather than a run based on a pre-snap read. What we are talking about in this thread is a decision made after the ball is snapped based on a post-snap read.

 

[wartknight]

ISU runs a ton of the pass/run option. Just isn't always noticed when it is a run read.

Does anyone know how many zone read plays, if any, Okie State runs? I don't remember Weeden ever running on us so I would be lead to assume that they usually run the run pass option play that Grantland described, as an alternative to our zone read heavy scheme.

 

[Luth4Cy]

ISU runs a ton of the pass/run option. Just isn't always noticed when it is a run read.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll try to look for it on Saturday.