***OFFICIAL FIRE MESSINGHAM THREAD***

[Luth4Cy]

I think having a more physical spread scheme is just what we need, just because you are physical doesnt mean that you have to run a pro set like Iowa. Why not be dominant across the front so that the zone read works no matter who gets the ball. We dont always need to have someone crashing to make a decision on who gets the ball right, why not push everyone 5 yards downfield.

I agree with you, except we don't have very physical backs outside of Woody. I too would like to see a more physical spread with some more pistol and running between the tackles, but to do that we need some more physical backs, we may get that in a couple years with Justin Webster if Rhoads chooses to play him on offense.

 

[heitclone]

CPR most likely believes this offense will make the improvements needed because unlike he knows Mess personally and knows that he will make an effort to improve. He has also recruited for this system and now is not the time to make any major changes. I could see some small systematic changes but I think all of our coaches have done a fairly admirable job as a whole. Mess's biggest issue appears to be that he isn't great at making in game changes. That is something that should improve over time, and I think it has some this season.

This is 100 percent true, I know its tough when you are having trouble getting things going but it seemed like we just keep grinding away doing the same things. Or he goes away from things that work, for instance, the diamond formation with Horne in the backfield that hit for the big play at TCU. Where was that the rest of the year? Do we only have that one play out of it? Was that just a package developed for JB? IDK...

In his defense, he had to go with 3 different QB's. That couldn't have helped his rhythm with playcalling or getting familiar with what each QB (who has a different skill set) bring in different situations.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

CPR most likely believes this offense will make the improvements needed because unlike he knows Mess personally and knows that he will make an effort to improve. He has also recruited for this system and now is not the time to make any major changes. I could see some small systematic changes but I think all of our coaches have done a fairly admirable job as a whole. Mess's biggest issue appears to be that he isn't great at making in game changes. That is something that should improve over time, and I think it has some this season.

This is not junior high football, making an effort means little. Admirable job? At what? Playing calling? Development? Recruiting?
Unless it is all coaching, the guys we do have do not fit this system either- fitting a system is not something that should deter a change.

The last sentence of your post is very incriminating. We should not be hiring guys to be OC's who only had called plays at a.) small-time school b.)in a different system c) many years ago. That type of on-the-job training is setting the program up to fail.

We have been hearing this same BS for 4 years. How many years do you think it takes to not have a bad offense? This offense has fundamental issues, and making an internal hire of someone that needs to learn on the job is not going to fix it.

 

[cyatheart]

This is 100 percent true, I know its tough when you are having trouble getting things going but it seemed like we just keep grinding away doing the same things. Or he goes away from things that work, for instance, the diamond formation with Horne in the backfield that hit for the big play at TCU. Where was that the rest of the year? Do we only have that one play out of it? Was that just a package developed for JB? IDK...

In his defense, he had to go with 3 different QB's. That couldn't have helped his rhythm with playcalling or getting familiar with what each QB (who has a different skill set) bring in different situations.

It is amazing, several games this year we come out with guns blazing, unpredictable, really playing well. It's like when Mess has time to think about it for a week he comes up with some really good stuff to start off the game, but then we get through the first 25 plays or so, and we get really predictable really quickly. There is never any real commitment to the run game and I think Bruns said it well after the game, the offense is just really predictable at times.

 

[brianhos]

You guys sound like Hawk fans.

 

[Luth4Cy]

This is not junior high football, making an effort means little. Admirable job? At what? Playing calling? Development? Recruiting?
Unless it is all coaching, the guys we do have do not fit this system either- fitting a system is not something that should deter a change.

The last sentence of your post is very incriminating. We should not be hiring guys to be OC's who only had called plays at a.) small-time school b.)in a different system c) many years ago. That type of on-the-job training is setting the program up to fail.

Who will we hire if we don't hire those types of guys? It's Iowa State, the choices for assistant coaches are usually guys that haven't coached in major conferences, or for coordinator that haven't been coordinators in a big time conference before. And Rhoads hired Mess because he coached in the spread for three years already.

As far as me saying they have done an admirable job, let me tell you a little secret. It is really hard to win at ISU. That is why Rhoads has for straight seasons of five wins for the first time in 50 years. Look at our recruiting classes, look at what we were predicted to do under Rhoads. We have overachieved by those standards. If we overachieve we must have done okay.

Any other problems you have with what I said?

 

[scyclonekid]

Well its Rhoads program so it starts with him, sorry.

 

[Covenant Clone]

Well its Rhoads program so it starts with him, sorry.

So your suggesting that the head coach fire himself instead of looking at changing a coordinator? Seems a little counterproductive.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Who will we hire if we don't hire those types of guys? It's Iowa State, the choices for assistant coaches are usually guys that haven't coached in major conferences, or for coordinator that haven't been coordinators in a big time conference before. And Rhoads hired Mess because he coached in the spread for three years already.

As far as me saying they have done an admirable job, let me tell you a little secret. It is really hard to win at ISU. That is why Rhoads has for straight seasons of five wins for the first time in 50 years. Look at our recruiting classes, look at what we were predicted to do under Rhoads. We have overachieved by those standards. If we overachieve we must have done okay.

Any other problems you have with what I said?

I do not have a problem with your post or the emasculated and fallacious mindset it comes from. I am just pointing out it is wrong. Yes, we can do much better on offense than what we did this year (and the past 4 years) and much better at OC than Mess. Hiring Mess was a failing restaurant hiring the wait staff to be the new head chef.

 

[scyclonekid]

Did I say that? No I did not ******* say that, all I am saying is it is his program and it starts with him on decision making firing and hiring. Rhoads makes the decisions on the staffing so it starts with him on making who leaves and who goes whether we agree or not. **** off.

 

[kcdc4isu]

Typical arm chair experts, if all of you are so smart why are you not coaching a top Div 1 team makinga 7 figure salary, oh thats right you really don't know that much about coaching, just complaining.

 

[Luth4Cy]

I do not have a problem with your post or the emasculated and fallacious mindset it comes from. I am just pointing out it is wrong. Yes, we can do much better on offense than what we did this year (and the past 4 years) and much better at OC than Mess. Hiring Mess was a failing restaurant hiring the wait staff to be the new head chef.

A lot of the Mess hire was about consistency though. I personally am someone that appreciates it when coaches promote from within. When Rhoads hired Mess he did it based on faith. That means that it might not be the best at first, and Rhoads was aware of that. Rhoads thought long term that Mess was the best for Iowa State. That means that right away may not be the best. It is much more than a coordinator problem but an offensive problem. Some of that has to do with coaching and some of it talent.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Typical arm chair experts, if all of you are so smart why are you not coaching a top Div 1 team makinga 7 figure salary, oh thats right you really don't know that much about coaching, just complaining.

I'm 19 and a Freshman in college. I don't have the option to coach D1 right now. Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[scyclonekid]

Paul will make the right decisions, it starts with what he thinks is right not us. We did not play well, but who cares its a football game and I am not saying get rid of Rhoads for ****s sake calm down.

 

[Covenant Clone]

Did I say that? No I did not ******* say that, all I am saying is it is his program and it starts with him on decision making firing and hiring. Rhoads makes the decisions on the staffing so it starts with him on making who leaves and who goes whether we agree or not. **** off.

It's time to step away from the computer for the night...we are on the same team grasshopper.

 

[scyclonekid]

Just kidding brah, tough loss but life goes on come back strong next year.

 

[CycloneErik]

I'm 19 and a Freshman in college. I don't have the option to coach D1 right now. Just thought I'd mention that.

Not with that attitude, you don't.

 

[Luth4Cy]

Not with that attitude, you don't.

What attitude?

 

[Wesley]

A lot of the Mess hire was about consistency though. I personally am someone that appreciates it when coaches promote from within. When Rhoads hired Mess he did it based on faith. That means that it might not be the best at first, and Rhoads was aware of that. Rhoads thought long term that Mess was the best for Iowa State. That means that right away may not be the best. It is much more than a coordinator problem but an offensive problem. Some of that has to do with coaching and some of it talent.

Even Tom MENSA Herman was not cutting it. We need to get someone really good or we will be relegated to the woodpile. CPR needs to win 8 or 9 in next three years.

Can we ****** out all our plays?

 

[swarthmoreCY]

A lot of the Mess hire was about consistency though. I personally am someone that appreciates it when coaches promote from within. When Rhoads hired Mess he did it based on faith. That means that it might not be the best at first, and Rhoads was aware of that. Rhoads thought long term that Mess was the best for Iowa State. That means that right away may not be the best. It is much more than a coordinator problem but an offensive problem. Some of that has to do with coaching and some of it talent.

Consistency with the previous three years was not a positive. Again, ISU can do better than this type of on-the-job training.