Game of Thrones Season 4

Status
Not open for further replies.

mkcrawford

Member
Mar 20, 2006
744
12
18
It also goes against the entire background for Littlefinger's character of doing anything possible for Cat - his manipulation of Lysa caused her to send a letter to the Starks implicating the Lannisters, which caused Ned to have to leave, and Catelyn to take Tyrion hostage, and so on and so on. His end game was specifically to hurt the Starks, one of whom is supposedly the only person besides himself who he's ever loved. And Sansa just either doesn't get mad about any of this, or doesn't realize it?

I think this will change once Arya and Hound get there (disclaimer: I have NOT read any of the books - just theory). I suspect that together, Sansa and Arya will see what Littlefinger is up to.
 

BoxsterCy

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 14, 2009
48,323
47,244
113
Minnesota
It also goes against the entire background for Littlefinger's character of doing anything possible for Cat - his manipulation of Lysa caused her to send a letter to the Starks implicating the Lannisters, which caused Ned to have to leave, and Catelyn to take Tyrion hostage, and so on and so on. His end game was specifically to hurt the Starks, one of whom is supposedly the only person besides himself who he's ever loved. And Sansa just either doesn't get mad about any of this, or doesn't realize it?

Can't decide whether she is very very naïve, very very stupid or just an Annie Hall "Oh well, la-dee-dah!" type. :smile:
 

Angie

Tugboats and arson.
Staff member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Mar 27, 2006
28,591
13,590
113
IA
Can't decide whether she is very very naïve, very very stupid or just an Annie Hall "Oh well, la-dee-dah!" type. :smile:

I think it's a combination. Why would she EVER have trusted Cersei Lannister?
 

State43

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2010
17,201
3,519
113
Omaha, NE
I thought he was talking about Crasters Keep getting burned down and that crazy SOB going with it, which is what happened.

I could understand that but the conversation they were having was how would they know it was the end. And he looked at his hand that was burning and said You'll Know.
 

The_Architect

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
13,422
2,034
113
I could understand that but the conversation they were having was how would they know it was the end. And he looked at his hand that was burning and said You'll Know.

Oh ok we are talking about two different conversations.
 

Daserop

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2011
5,876
2,211
113
The Bebop
In Season 3 there was a scene between Vary's and Margery Tyrells Grandmother the "Queen of Thorns". Vary's says to her "Littlefinger would let all of Westeros burn if that meant he could rule it" or something along those lines. I thought that line was very telling. Seems like Vary's is the only one who know what Littlefinger is up too!

Personnally, I think believe Vary's when he stated "Everything I do is for the Realm".
 

PabloDiablo

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2011
2,862
182
63
42
Omaha, NE
Well, Cat did tell her son to follow through with marrying the Frey girl instead of his "love" (depending on book/show). Would Bolton and Frey still have turned on them then? Maybe. But then it would have been 100% on Bolton and Frey instead of the Starks sharing the blame.

As much as I am a "Stark", it seems like 95% of the time it's them getting in their own way.

Bran climbing the ruins when his parents told him not to (causing him to be in the wrong place at the wrong time)
Catelyn imprisoning Tyrion for attempted murder of Bran when the only evidence was the dagger (and, as Tyrion said, only an idiot would leave behind his own dagger)
Ned "dishonoring" himself at the wrong time (had he dishonored himself by taking up Littlefinger's suggestion and "supporting" Joeffry and out Cersei and her children a few years later instead of dishonoring himself by declaring himself a traitor right before his execution)
Robb breaking his treaty with the Freys
Catelyn setting Jaime free in hopes the Lannisters would release her daughters (such a foolish Hail Mary)
Robb executing Greystark (causing him to lose a lot of support in the North)

As much as th Starks get screwed in this show, a lot of the time they simply get in their own way. To paraphrase something Littlefinger said, "they act before they think." And it burns them a lot in this show.

The only evidence was Littlefinger telling her it was Tyrions, too. Keep that in mind, just more Chaos for his plans.

It also goes against the entire background for Littlefinger's character of doing anything possible for Cat - his manipulation of Lysa caused her to send a letter to the Starks implicating the Lannisters, which caused Ned to have to leave, and Catelyn to take Tyrion hostage, and so on and so on. His end game was specifically to hurt the Starks, one of whom is supposedly the only person besides himself who he's ever loved. And Sansa just either doesn't get mad about any of this, or doesn't realize it?

I think his intent was too bring Ned down and make Catelyn a widow and Lysa was just the means to the end. He probably just gave her too much credit and assumed that she wouldn't bring down a self-destructive storm on herself and family and instigate full scale war between Stark and Lannister. Maybe his only poor play so far but he seems to have adapted well.
 

NobodyBeatsCy

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2008
3,750
633
113
Clive, IA
Well, Cat did tell her son to follow through with marrying the Frey girl instead of his "love" (depending on book/show). Would Bolton and Frey still have turned on them then? Maybe. But then it would have been 100% on Bolton and Frey instead of the Starks sharing the blame.

As much as I am a "Stark", it seems like 95% of the time it's them getting in their own way.

Bran climbing the ruins when his parents told him not to (causing him to be in the wrong place at the wrong time)
Catelyn imprisoning Tyrion for attempted murder of Bran when the only evidence was the dagger (and, as Tyrion said, only an idiot would leave behind his own dagger)
Ned "dishonoring" himself at the wrong time (had he dishonored himself by taking up Littlefinger's suggestion and "supporting" Joeffry and out Cersei and her children a few years later instead of dishonoring himself by declaring himself a traitor right before his execution)
Robb breaking his treaty with the Freys
Catelyn setting Jaime free in hopes the Lannisters would release her daughters (such a foolish Hail Mary)
Robb executing Greystark (causing him to lose a lot of support in the North)

As much as th Starks get screwed in this show, a lot of the time they simply get in their own way. To paraphrase something Littlefinger said, "they act before they think." And it burns them a lot in this show.

And yet, if none of this happened, we would not have much of a story!
 

Angie

Tugboats and arson.
Staff member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Mar 27, 2006
28,591
13,590
113
IA
I think his intent was too bring Ned down and make Catelyn a widow and Lysa was just the means to the end. He probably just gave her too much credit and assumed that she wouldn't bring down a self-destructive storm on herself and family and instigate full scale war between Stark and Lannister. Maybe his only poor play so far but he seems to have adapted well.

I've thought about that, too - but it also implies that LF somehow knew that Robert would make Ned the Hand if Arryn died. At the beginning of the series, this thought didn't enter Ned's mind as a possibility until he heard Robert was going to visit.
 

Clonehomer

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
26,809
24,912
113
I could understand that but the conversation they were having was how would they know it was the end. And he looked at his hand that was burning and said You'll Know.

I took it as him seeing his future. He spoke of Bran, but when the conversation turned to others he got quiet and didn't answer. I took that to mean that he will be burned before Bran reaches the three eyed crow.
 

ThatllDoCy

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2009
17,991
11,144
113
53
Minneapolis, MN
www.katchllc.com
Littlefinger could have had Jon Arryn killed to keep Robert from learning about Joffrey's true lineage to keep the Lannisters in power who were funding the realm. He was master of coin at the time.
 

jdoggivjc

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2006
61,625
23,880
113
Macomb, MI
Littlefinger could have had Jon Arryn killed to keep Robert from learning about Joffrey's true lineage to keep the Lannisters in power who were funding the realm. He was master of coin at the time.

Possible - except Littlefinger wasn't financing government activities (such as Ned Stark's tournament) through the Lannisters. He was financing it through the Iron Bank of Braavos(?), which is why King's Landing is heavily in debt to them.

I truly think it was Littlefinger wanted the North (Starks) and South (Lannisters) to destroy each other in civil war, creating a power vacuum, giving him a chance to rule over the ashes. And this might have actually had a chance of working if not for the Red Wedding, which destroyed the Starks without nearly touching the Lannisters enough.
 
Last edited:

Gordyo5

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Jun 3, 2007
1,359
188
63
38
Glenwood, Ia
Little Finger just continues to be awesome. That scene last night was one of the best since his Chaos speech. I've said it before, but I really hope at the end of all of this he is really left ruling the ashes of everything.
 

ISUChippewa

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Apr 10, 2006
7,268
7,644
113
Since I work on Sunday nights I didn't get a chance to watch the episode until tonight.

I think it's a testament to the quality of the episode and the series in general that I didn't realize that we didn't see any of Tyrion until the end credits. Really good episode.

On a random note, in a guilty way I enjoyed the character of Karl, as evil and depraved as he was. It's interesting to see that the same actor played a geeky scientist in Pacific Rim last summer (great underrated movie, BTW) and then a completely opposite character in Karl, who was really a total BAMF until getting a sword through the head.
 

BoxsterCy

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 14, 2009
48,323
47,244
113
Minnesota
Since I work on Sunday nights I didn't get a chance to watch the episode until tonight.

I think it's a testament to the quality of the episode and the series in general that I didn't realize that we didn't see any of Tyrion until the end credits. Really good episode.

On a random note, in a guilty way I enjoyed the character of Karl, as evil and depraved as he was. It's interesting to see that the same actor played a geeky scientist in Pacific Rim last summer (great underrated movie, BTW) and then a completely opposite character in Karl, who was really a total BAMF until getting a sword through the head.

Ha, did a second watch of GoT tonight and rewatched Pacific Rim too and didn't put together this was the same actor until your posting. Interesting.
 

jdoggivjc

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2006
61,625
23,880
113
Macomb, MI
Ha, did a second watch of GoT tonight and rewatched Pacific Rim too and didn't put together this was the same actor until your posting. Interesting.

He was also in the first couple of seasons of Torchwood (for the Doctor Who fans out there)
 

State43

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2010
17,201
3,519
113
Omaha, NE
I know this is getting derailed by me but I must speak. Pacific Rim was ****. I loved the giant robots brought to life, but the whole story and acting was turrible.
On another note, I can't remember but what bastard gave Jon Snow his sword?
 

cyclones18

Member
Apr 20, 2010
178
8
18
Ames
Geor Mormont gave it to him when he saved him from the wight that attacked him in his chambers. It was supposed to go to Jorah but he was exiled from Westeros for slavery
 

helechopper

Loyal Son Forever True
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Apr 8, 2006
5,939
6,037
113
Chicago
Think of this...

Jamie tries to kill Bran, Locke cuts off Jamie's hand, Bran kills Locke. WTF, this show is insane.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.