Rhoads' Contract
- Thread starter CurvedAir
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JP had us in almost as bad a position with the Chiz and GMac extensions until Auburn and Creighton came along and saved our butts. That said, I'm not giving up on CPR yet, though I don't remember two more embarassing season opening losses than last year and this. If it doesn't get better in the next year or so, ISU will be in a very bad position with that contract extension and CPR will be in a very good one.
Interesting details. I, for one, do not advocate firing Rhoads. Iowa State is not an easy place to win, and anyone with a long historical perspective, like me, probably appreciates what he has done so far. However, if he has another 2 - 10 year this year, and another stinker next year, it may be time to think about termination.
That said. Don't blame Rhoads for his sweet contract. JP negotiated the contract and he could have layered it with incentives and drawbacks. Hindsight is always 20 - 20, and I haven't seen the contract, but I would hope it is also layered with disincentives to allow the administration to terminate in case of poor performance. Was no thought given to decreasing pay in the event the teams start tanking? If I was an AD, I'd think about structuring a contract with incentives and disincentives like that.
Edit: I'll also note (I could be mistaken) but JP seems to hold on to his hires way too long and give them a long leash (see McDermott, Greg). Thank the Lord McDermott left on his own terms because I was very frustrated JP was not taking any action and we were in year 5, FIVE, of McDermott with no hope of NCAA Tourney play in sight.
That said. Don't blame Rhoads for his sweet contract. JP negotiated the contract and he could have layered it with incentives and drawbacks. Hindsight is always 20 - 20, and I haven't seen the contract, but I would hope it is also layered with disincentives to allow the administration to terminate in case of poor performance. Was no thought given to decreasing pay in the event the teams start tanking? If I was an AD, I'd think about structuring a contract with incentives and disincentives like that.
Edit: I'll also note (I could be mistaken) but JP seems to hold on to his hires way too long and give them a long leash (see McDermott, Greg). Thank the Lord McDermott left on his own terms because I was very frustrated JP was not taking any action and we were in year 5, FIVE, of McDermott with no hope of NCAA Tourney play in sight.
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ooh, ooh, let's do a Save the Cyclones Ice Bucket Challenge! Raise money to pay off the coach! :swoon:
I challenge clonedude to get started.
A couple observations in general about the conversation here...
Rhoads is more self-aware and cognizant of these issues that all of us on here. I think he truly believes in Iowa State and the central Iowa community, but he also knows how difficult of a school it is to win at given (a) our small (albeit dedicated) fan base without gobs of massive donors, (b) splitting the state (already a small one without much talent to recruit) two or three ways, and therefore being forced to take the leftovers from CA, FL, and TX to try to make something of them, (c) the complete lack of any tradition or "brand," and (d) the fact we are the smallest fish in one of the biggest pond in the B12 and the P5. We are something of a "tweener" as a football school where we are clearly too big/too academically solid/too wealthy and successful in non-football sports to fit into the MAC or the MWC, but so hamstrung in football we look like an odd man out in a major conference (even if we fit in every other way, never mind the century of history).
Remember, he did say he wished he'd be lucky enough to enjoy a long, fruitful career and retire in Ames. That looks less and less likely to happen all the time now, and do remember this:
Longevity and college football coaching aren't usually two words or phrases you typically find in the same sentence. Coaches are now fired faster than ever while others always have their eyes on the next job.
Sometimes, however, there is a coach that is just a perfect fit.
On the surface, it's fairly obvious Paul Rhoads is the perfect fit him Ames. He's from Ankeny, Iowa just a few miles down the road from Ames, not to mention he spent five seasons on former ISU head coach Dan McCarney's staff from 1995-1999. He knows Iowa State football and the challenges he faces in order to put winning football teams on the field.
That's not to say Rhoads necessarily sees himself finishing his career at Iowa State. When asked this week if he would retire at Iowa State (he just signed a 10-year extension in December). "Is it probably going to happen? I would just doubt it. That’s a long time to complete.â€
He also told a Des Moines radio station it's "highly unlikely" he'll retire at Iowa State.
Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean he's looking to leave Iowa State.
“Iowa State has got to want me all that time, to begin with. That hasn’t always been the case with coaches at any place. But the bottom-line answer is: If 20 years from now I’m retiring as the head football coach at Iowa State, I’m going to be a very, very lucky man.â€
http://turfburner.com/the-feed/item...its-highly-unlikely-hell-retire-at-iowa-state
We all read that as him thinking about jumping to another program--I actually saw it the other way, then and now. That's just a really honest statement about the nature of the business and how hard it is to achieve and sustain success and deal with expectations at a place like Iowa State. I definitely heard his name kicking around for the Wisconsin, Michigan, and Auburn jobs all when they came up. I doubt he was seriously in the lead for anything at any point and I doubt he had any serious offers (or even some interviews), but that's how people viewed going even 7-6 at Iowa State, and we should all consider ourselves somewhat lucky for those few good years that he had, even if they were the product of fluke upsets/Wally's Indian summer as a coach with some really good defenses/Chizik's recruits/Knott and Klein/Austen Arnaud/KO/or whatever reason you want to give it to other than Paul Rhoads. In the end, though, I think Rhoads was just being honest and knew that it's a rough business and sustaining acceptable success and consistency at Iowa State is really hard, and he hoped he would be that good/lucky. It doesn't appear he will be. Mangino had a great season at Kansas but slid back to earth quickly thereafter, and they fired him in disgrace. Yes, we could hire some young gun that comes in with a take-no-prisoners attitude, but it's always going to be hard for us to succeed and then keep that success in a cardinal shirt.
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I don't remember when he said it, but I do recall Pollard saying something like, "When this place (Ames) has success in football, it's going to explode." I think he's right. This fan base and region of the country has been desperate for a winner for so long--McCarney and Rhoads each teased us, and Chizik's pedigree had us all salivating at one point. McCarney put together teams that were probably better on paper, and probably more consistent overall, but he had this awful habit of always playing just below the level of his competition, and the frustration and disappointment that came with that eventually cost him his job. Rhoads' teams have been very inconsistent, to say the least, but at least he won a lot of close games (seriously, go look back at results, he pulled a lot of rabbits out of hats the first few years), and they actually started winning games they "shouldn't" have (always fun to mention the Nebraska road game, Texas road game, TCU road game, and, of course, #2 OSU that one year). You started to wonder why they couldn't always play like that and vault ourselves into the top half of the conference, but at least we had them. Having those three tease us in their three distinct ways for the past fifteen years leads us to our current situation. I still think Pollard is right, and I think the generally high-level of interest in the program, more ticket sales despite higher prices, and the expansion are all symptoms of Pollard calling it right that things really could explode if we have truly sustained success in football.
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Oh my God did Pollard luck out with Fred dropping into his lap... Fired Morgan for only making the NIT, something McD never could do, stuck with McD after the entire roster bailed, and now everything in the program is going to fundamentally revolve around Fred to keep the fan base placated, happy, and having some indication of connection to past glory and future success, no matter what happens with Rhoads over the next few games or the next few seasons. To be fair to JP, let's not forget what a flyer hiring Hoiberg was at the time (former player with no real head coaching or recruiting experience coming out of an NBA playing career and short tenure in a front office for a losing franchise, <40 years old, etc.). That could have backfired so badly. Thank heaven Fred is a basketball savant, such a standup guy, that devoted to Ames, and surrounded himself with experienced coaches likes Bobby Lutz and Doc Sadler early in his career to cover his weaknesses and learn/grow himself.
Maybe JP could make season tickets for football mandatory for season tickets for basketball? Maybe we could promote Fred into the AD position?
semi
Rhoads is more self-aware and cognizant of these issues that all of us on here. I think he truly believes in Iowa State and the central Iowa community, but he also knows how difficult of a school it is to win at given (a) our small (albeit dedicated) fan base without gobs of massive donors, (b) splitting the state (already a small one without much talent to recruit) two or three ways, and therefore being forced to take the leftovers from CA, FL, and TX to try to make something of them, (c) the complete lack of any tradition or "brand," and (d) the fact we are the smallest fish in one of the biggest pond in the B12 and the P5. We are something of a "tweener" as a football school where we are clearly too big/too academically solid/too wealthy and successful in non-football sports to fit into the MAC or the MWC, but so hamstrung in football we look like an odd man out in a major conference (even if we fit in every other way, never mind the century of history).
Remember, he did say he wished he'd be lucky enough to enjoy a long, fruitful career and retire in Ames. That looks less and less likely to happen all the time now, and do remember this:
Longevity and college football coaching aren't usually two words or phrases you typically find in the same sentence. Coaches are now fired faster than ever while others always have their eyes on the next job.
Sometimes, however, there is a coach that is just a perfect fit.
On the surface, it's fairly obvious Paul Rhoads is the perfect fit him Ames. He's from Ankeny, Iowa just a few miles down the road from Ames, not to mention he spent five seasons on former ISU head coach Dan McCarney's staff from 1995-1999. He knows Iowa State football and the challenges he faces in order to put winning football teams on the field.
That's not to say Rhoads necessarily sees himself finishing his career at Iowa State. When asked this week if he would retire at Iowa State (he just signed a 10-year extension in December). "Is it probably going to happen? I would just doubt it. That’s a long time to complete.â€
He also told a Des Moines radio station it's "highly unlikely" he'll retire at Iowa State.
Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean he's looking to leave Iowa State.
“Iowa State has got to want me all that time, to begin with. That hasn’t always been the case with coaches at any place. But the bottom-line answer is: If 20 years from now I’m retiring as the head football coach at Iowa State, I’m going to be a very, very lucky man.â€
http://turfburner.com/the-feed/item...its-highly-unlikely-hell-retire-at-iowa-state
We all read that as him thinking about jumping to another program--I actually saw it the other way, then and now. That's just a really honest statement about the nature of the business and how hard it is to achieve and sustain success and deal with expectations at a place like Iowa State. I definitely heard his name kicking around for the Wisconsin, Michigan, and Auburn jobs all when they came up. I doubt he was seriously in the lead for anything at any point and I doubt he had any serious offers (or even some interviews), but that's how people viewed going even 7-6 at Iowa State, and we should all consider ourselves somewhat lucky for those few good years that he had, even if they were the product of fluke upsets/Wally's Indian summer as a coach with some really good defenses/Chizik's recruits/Knott and Klein/Austen Arnaud/KO/or whatever reason you want to give it to other than Paul Rhoads. In the end, though, I think Rhoads was just being honest and knew that it's a rough business and sustaining acceptable success and consistency at Iowa State is really hard, and he hoped he would be that good/lucky. It doesn't appear he will be. Mangino had a great season at Kansas but slid back to earth quickly thereafter, and they fired him in disgrace. Yes, we could hire some young gun that comes in with a take-no-prisoners attitude, but it's always going to be hard for us to succeed and then keep that success in a cardinal shirt.
-
I don't remember when he said it, but I do recall Pollard saying something like, "When this place (Ames) has success in football, it's going to explode." I think he's right. This fan base and region of the country has been desperate for a winner for so long--McCarney and Rhoads each teased us, and Chizik's pedigree had us all salivating at one point. McCarney put together teams that were probably better on paper, and probably more consistent overall, but he had this awful habit of always playing just below the level of his competition, and the frustration and disappointment that came with that eventually cost him his job. Rhoads' teams have been very inconsistent, to say the least, but at least he won a lot of close games (seriously, go look back at results, he pulled a lot of rabbits out of hats the first few years), and they actually started winning games they "shouldn't" have (always fun to mention the Nebraska road game, Texas road game, TCU road game, and, of course, #2 OSU that one year). You started to wonder why they couldn't always play like that and vault ourselves into the top half of the conference, but at least we had them. Having those three tease us in their three distinct ways for the past fifteen years leads us to our current situation. I still think Pollard is right, and I think the generally high-level of interest in the program, more ticket sales despite higher prices, and the expansion are all symptoms of Pollard calling it right that things really could explode if we have truly sustained success in football.
-
Oh my God did Pollard luck out with Fred dropping into his lap... Fired Morgan for only making the NIT, something McD never could do, stuck with McD after the entire roster bailed, and now everything in the program is going to fundamentally revolve around Fred to keep the fan base placated, happy, and having some indication of connection to past glory and future success, no matter what happens with Rhoads over the next few games or the next few seasons. To be fair to JP, let's not forget what a flyer hiring Hoiberg was at the time (former player with no real head coaching or recruiting experience coming out of an NBA playing career and short tenure in a front office for a losing franchise, <40 years old, etc.). That could have backfired so badly. Thank heaven Fred is a basketball savant, such a standup guy, that devoted to Ames, and surrounded himself with experienced coaches likes Bobby Lutz and Doc Sadler early in his career to cover his weaknesses and learn/grow himself.
Maybe JP could make season tickets for football mandatory for season tickets for basketball? Maybe we could promote Fred into the AD position?
semi
I looked through some of that original threat just for kicks.. actually cyclonerik. asked "shouldnt a head coach actually do something before we give him that big of a contract" so there was one person
If were dumping a Rhoads, were dumping Jamie, too. So we'll have those two around for at least another 3 years.
Well, Nishioka did have an offer for more guaranteed money (though less per year) in Japan that he could only accept by voiding his Twins salary and becoming a free agent, so it's not like it was motivated purely out of altruism. There's the whole Japanese shame culture thing, too...
I think Gil Meche did something similar after his last year with the Royals, choosing to retire and forfeit his salary.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
There was a jimlad at the end of that one. I was pretty convinced at that point that it was a good deal. I thought it was safe to assume that the program wouldn't go the other direction.
Which games? I do think that the team will be night and day difference at the end of the year, but at the moment, I just can't see what games we can possibly even step on the field with.
The funny part is that the most vocal dudes against the contract now would have been the loudest complainers that JP didn't do enough had CPR just taken the damn Wisconsin job when Alvarez called and let him know it was his if he wanted it.
JP knows the respect that CPR has amongst the coaching fraternity. He also knows that Iowa State is as tough of a job as therin CFB. Thank God we have him running the AD
Man, some of you guys are so dramatic. If we win the next 3 games everyone will be singing his praises. I'm not happy but one game does not a season make.
What respect? It's easy to love another coach that loses to you every year.
The sad truth is that CPR is staying. When he was hired I heard that it was all about CPR and I guess that's fine when you win but when you lose it gets old fast.
Nope. In fact, it specifically lists those kinds of things as reasons he CAN'T get fired. Section V, 2, a:
http://archive.desmoinesregister.com/assets/pdf/D2185883229.PDF
I think he's gone after this year. I really believe that he will resign or we somehow buy him out. Have fun selling tickets to this train wreck next year with CPR here!
Wrong. Losing to an FCS team should be the fluke, but with the current state of the program, if we win the next three games, they will be the flukes. This program has gone from mediocre to absolutely pitiful under Rhoads, and if you think everyone's reactions are based on one game, you need to have a look at the last five seasons.
It sounds morbid, but I hope we go winless this year just to get the point across, loud and clear, about how bad we are. No more false hope from beating garbage teams in meaningless games.
I like Paul Rhoads and not sure who I would want over him. The defense is young and we are in Mangino and Company's first year. Really, I am more worried about QB than anything. In the second half Sam looked dazed and confused.
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