Ok st and TTech

[awd4cy]

ESPN disagrees.

"You look at the history of Oregon football, and we have a spirit of innovation," Helfrich said. "It's something we pride ourselves on that started in the early '90s. [Uniforms] are how we got in the door at all. And now we're able to compete a little bit differently nationally with recruits, and we can at least get in the door. But more and more, it just puts you in front of some different people."
Other schools have taken notice.


Looking to revitalize its program under Randy Edsall, Maryland drew a lot of national attention for its "Pride" uniforms from Under Armour that incorporated the Terps' red and black and Maryland state-flag colors. At Oklahoma State, the Cowboys wore six different Nike uniform combinations in 2010 and 13 combinations in 2011 and 2012. During that same period, OSU landed recruiting classes that finished in the top 30 twice.
"You drive down a highway and you look at a billboard and it says, 'you just looked at this billboard, you should use it as advertisement' -- it's the same philosophy as uniforms," Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy said. "It's a marketing tool. It grabs the attention of the young men we're recruiting."

But as any good advertiser will tell you, it doesn't matter how shiny the package is if you can't get somebody to buy the product. ESPN.com surveyed more than 700 high school recruits from the classes of 2014 and 2015 -- including 90 who self-identified as a member of the ESPN 300 for the Classes of 2014 or 2015 -- and asked them where uniforms ranked in their college decision. Uniforms were the top factor for only 3 percent of players, and uniforms ranked eighth on the list of criteria behind academics, coaching, playing time, school tradition, location, experience sending players to the NFL and television exposure.

So here's a question. Of the criteria listed above uniforms, which can you affordably change by next season.

If you CAN see some improvement in recruiting by changing uniforms, and your tradition ain't all that in the eyes of a recruit, why wouldn't you? Because the old farts might complain?

And don't say it's tradition, because when a recruit talks tradition, he's not talking about the chants the crowd recites, or the history of the stadium, or the Heisman Trophy winner you almost had thirty years ago. He's talking about win-loss records and what bowls have you gone to during HIS lifetime.

Yes...we sell Barry Sanders and Thurman Thomas to RB recruits, but the candidates at every other position don't care a rat's...

We sell Dez and Blackmon to WRs. We sell Super Bowl rings and first round draft picks. But when it comes down to it, we have very little control over that.

Uniforms we CAN control, and we'll use it every time we're in a head-to-head competition with Iowa State for recruit, and that one inexpensive difference will more times than not, tip the balance to OSU.

Oregon is dropping far in recruiting.

 

[CyFan61]

So what are you...an engineer or an accountant?

I'm in a field where you get nowhere fast without being able to prove your claims.

Meanwhile... it seems to me like there is one glaring factor in OSU's success that you conveniently gloss over:

Hey...as a rival fan in the same conference, I'm perfectly content with you sticking with those uniforms. Just don't trash on those of us that are taking a pro-active approach to radically making our sports programs more successful.

We made a commitment to change our image in 2005 when Mike Holder convinced Boone Pickens to invest in his vision. Since that time, OSU is 80-39 in football alone, while ISU is 44-70.

In the ten seasons prior to 2005 and our re-commitment to excellence, OSU's football record was 58-59, while ISU was 46-71 (2 more wins and one less loss).

Doing the same thing doesn't seem to be working out for you guys.

Pickens money led to nice renovations and generous salary for a very good coach (Gundy), all of which contibuted to success.

Pointing to "branding" and new uniforms as the factor, or even a significant factor in any way, is the world's greatest stretch. It's like you're crediting your new air freshener for why your broken car runs again instead of the mechanic who replaced the transmission.

 

[JP4CY]

What the hell is the branding and advertising crap?
I thought ISU had the crappy choose your adventure fashion commercials not Okie Lite (YEAH I SAID IT!).

 

[VeloClone]

Nope...just like the lively discussion.

U mad?

Not in the least. Frankly I thought Tech's abomination of a helmet was much worse than anything the Cowboys trotted out there. I just think the whole uniform thing is way, way, way overblown and if executed poorly does more harm than good. Those Red Raider helmets were bad - they might have looked good in your hands or in a close up still, but on TV they were practically impossible to decipher - and while they might draw attention, "WTF" is the wrong kind of attention.

 

[CyFan61]

[video=youtube;AA3YXFo2K9M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA3YXFo2K9M[/video]

 

[SouthTulsaPoke]

Oregon is dropping far in recruiting.

Based on what? You have to remember that recruiting services grade players on how they fit a template for the professional game, and college programs that play a professional style of play.

Oregon, OSU, Baylor et. al., play a style of offense that doesn't require big lumbering players. As such, it isn't uncommon to see OSU and Oregon and Baylor falling into the twenties in the recruiting ratings, while continuing to win like a Top 15 team, because they recruit "lower rated" players that fit their systems.

 

[DesertClone1]

Schools are letting coaches/Nike make knee jerk changes to brands that were built over many years. School presidents ought to be required to take a marketing 101 in brand awareness to understand what is at risk.

Risk? What risk is Oregon taking?

 

[VeloClone]

Risk? What risk is Oregon taking?

Good point. They are already called the ducks. What could be more humiliating?

 

[SouthTulsaPoke]

I'm in a field where you get nowhere fast without being able to prove your claims.

Meanwhile... it seems to me like there is one glaring factor in OSU's success that you conveniently gloss over:


Pickens money led to nice renovations and generous salary for a very good coach (Gundy), all of which contibuted to success.

Pointing to "branding" and new uniforms as the factor, or even a significant factor in any way, is the world's greatest stretch. It's like you're crediting your new air freshener for why your broken car runs again instead of the mechanic who replaced the transmission.

I never said THE factor. It is a significant factor, as our recruiting has been improving since the change. Gundy is frequently quoted as saying that every positive change (record on the field, championships, rankings and yes...uniforms, gets our brand known nationally, gets him in the door with recruits in states like California, Louisiana and Georgia, where we weren't known before, but are now having SIGNIFICANT success in recruiting.

Sometimes empirical proof isn't possible. You have to arrive at a inductive, rather than a deductive conclusion. So ask yourself this, if uniforms weren't helping us, do you think a conservative guy from Edmond, Oklahoma, like Mike Gundy (who stylistically tucks his sweatshirts into his Dockers) would continue to spend the money on uniforms, when he could otherwise use that money to pay for more recruiting visits?

Here's some quotes from when we first made the change:

There was a lot that went into that. It’s been going on for a year and a half, two years; some of it some of us knew about, some of us didn’t.

At first, I’m a very traditional guy, and I really didn’t know how to take the new uniforms. We haven’t had much consistency over the last 20 years with uniforms anyway, so we felt like it gave us an opportunity to attract young student athletes. And that’s really what we thrive on here, bringing in good young people who want to graduate and play some good football here.

And it’s an opportunity for us to be different. So I thought it would be great for us. I think it’ll be great for us in recruiting. I know the young people like it, they’re excited about it. The recruits bring it up and talk about it. I think it’s a really good move. And I’m glad Nike chose us. I think it’s another statement of where we’re going, that they would pick us to be the Oregon of the Midwest.

As for Gundy's salary, Pickens has nothing to do with that. Boone's donations have been to capital not operations. Gundy's salary has been the result of winning on the field, much of which came before the facility upgrades. Gundy is paid by tickets sold and television revenue.

If our winning under Gundy was due to Pickens donations and money spent on the program, why has Gundy beaten Mack Brown and Texas three our of the last four games we've played against them? They have better facilities, more recruits around Austin than we have around Stillwater, more budget for recruiting, more TV revenue, more tradition, and more traditional (and ugly) uniforms.

Pickens money didn't get Gundy National Coach of the Year in 2011, and it's facile to imply he did.

 

[JP4CY]

However, the facilities are just a part of our overall strategy to achieve success on the field, court and diamond. Our uniforms also play a large part in this. Not the only part, not the largest part, but a significant part.

What part or percent do you believe that drugs play?

 

[RubyClone]

As for Gundy's salary, Pickens has nothing to do with that. Boone's donations have been to capital not operations. Gundy's salary has been the result of winning on the field, much of which came before the facility upgrades. Gundy is paid by tickets sold and television revenue.
.

Just going to point out that it's much easier to keep that operating budget flush when you have a Sugar Daddy funding the capital.

 

[CyFan61]

Just going to point out that it's much easier to keep that operating budget flush when you have a Sugar Daddy funding the capital.

No kidding; it's a shell game and it's naive to suggest otherwise.

 

[SouthTulsaPoke]

[video=youtube;AA3YXFo2K9M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA3YXFo2K9M[/video]

2008: OSU 59, ISU 17
2009: OSU 34, ISU 8
2012: OSU 31, ISU 10
2013: OSU 58, ISU 27
2014: ???

Can't always count on us having a tragic plane crash the same day of every game we play against you? New uniforms is a better bet for you.

 

[JP4CY]

Can't always count on us having a tragic plane crash the same day of every game we play against you? New uniforms is a better bet for you.

Yikes, you're going there? Seriously? You are in an internet argument and bringing up death?

 

[CyFan61]

Can't always count on us having a tragic plane crash the same day of every game we play against you?

The crash was a tragedy, no question. But it was a tragedy that had zero impact on the game.

Frankly, it is pretty disgusting to suggest that it did by using the deaths of people to defend the outcome of a football game. Geez.

 

[awd4cy]

2008: OSU 59, ISU 17
2009: OSU 34, ISU 8
2012: OSU 31, ISU 10
2013: OSU 58, ISU 27
2014: ???

Can't always count on us having a tragic plane crash the same day of every game we play against you? New uniforms is a better bet for you.

Boo hoo. I'm sure the players were all thinking of the beloved women's basketball coaches they barely knew up 24-7.

 

[SouthTulsaPoke]

What part or percent do you believe that drugs play?

Your response is to drag out a textbook example of tabloid journalism? Or, when the NCAA gives OSU a clean bill of health, will you just postulate that Pickens bought them off? :SLEEP:

 

[Cyforce]

Your response is to drag out a textbook example of tabloid journalism? Or, when the NCAA gives OSU a clean bill of health, will you just postulate that Pickens bought them off? :SLEEP:

And???

 

[klamath632]

Yikes, you're going there? Seriously? You are in an internet argument and bringing up death?

Do you think they got ahead 24-7 and suddenly remembered the plane crash? You are a sick individual to blame a football loss on the deaths of those people.

 

[SouthTulsaPoke]

The crash was a tragedy, no question. But it was a tragedy that had zero impact on the game.

Frankly, it is pretty disgusting to suggest that it did by using the deaths of people to defend the outcome of a football game. Geez.

Seriously? Is that what you're trying to convince yourself of? Zero impact?

AMES, Iowa -- Iowa State will hold a moment of silence before Friday night's football game with No. 2 Oklahoma State to honor Cowboys women's basketball coach Kurt Budke, assistant Miranda Serna and two others killed in a plane crash.Budke, Serna, 82-year-old pilot Olin Branstetter and his 79-year-old wife, Paula, died Thursday when their single-engine plane crashed during a recruiting trip in Arkansas.
Cowboys football coach Mike Gundy says in a statement that the team is saddened by the deaths of Budke and Serna. Gundy says that Oklahoma State's coaches are all very close and pull for each other, adding that Budke and Serna always had encouraging words for them.

So the coaches who are on the road with their team, trying to focus the players on the game at hand, wouldn't be shaken up by the death of a friend and colleague? Remember, this wasn't just ONE coach losing a friend that day, it was EVERY coach.

You don't think that impacted them? Kept them from focussing on the task at hand? You don't think the players were mourning?

The disgusting thing is that ESPN put money before class and played a game that should've been delayed. If the crash had happened a day earlier, it probably would've been.

You think the team that destroyed Oklahoma the following week and was a 27 point favorite that night, lost that game with none of it being due to the tragedy? Wow!!!

Here's a quote from DE Richetti Jones that was printed in the Tulsa World:

Jones: “I couldn't tell you how my teammates felt exactly, but I can tell you I could look at some of them and I knew that they weren't where they needed to be mentally and weren't ready to play a game.”

If you think it didn't matter to the team, why did Gundy choose to hand our Fiesta Bowl trophy to Coach Budke's widow at the award ceremony immediately after we beat Stanford? Do you think it might be because she had apologized to Gundy for the crash possibly costing the football team that game? Do you think he might have been telling her there are more important things than football and basketball games, and that everything turned out okay?

[video=youtube_share;hm_IHNaxI3M]http://youtu.be/hm_IHNaxI3M[/video]

Zero impact? Get a grip on reality and don't let delusions rule your life.