I could agree with that. I think three seed, with a shot at a two. Four seed with a shot at a three is close enough for me.
2/16/15 AP Poll Ranking?
- Thread starter hobbsfan27
- Start date
The AP - the same group of voters who ranked TCU. Who cares what a bunch of sports writers think.
Well, I think it's pretty clear almost everyone on this thread cares. Same with the majority of college basketball fans across the country.
So a thread that is nominally about where the Cyclones will be ranked has turned into a thread talking about UNI...looks like the Panthers are the newest "big brother" for a few of you.
Anyway, I don't think we go below #15.
Anyway, I don't think we go below #15.
The hate isn't for UNI...or WSU either. It's for voters having too big of a woody for mid majors who overly benefit from playing soft teams to those in power conferences laying it on the line game in and game out and sometimes taking it on the chin. UNI has to lay it on the line maybe a handful of times in a season. No offense to the Panthers. They play who they play...but they are not a top 10 team...I don't blame them...I blame the voters. They can beat a lot of teams on any given night...but they would suffer greatly if they were in a power conference night in and night out.
Gonzaga played and beat #17 SMU, #40 Georgia, #48 St. John's, and #50 UCLA. They also lost by 3 at Arizona. They also scheduled Wazzou, which also shows they at least tried to schedule better. Gonzaga's Non-Con SOS is 13. UNI is 128.
Sagarin has UNI at #26.
For context...
#14 ISU
#30 Iowa
Or if we were looking at our conference...
#9 Kansas
#11 Oklahoma
#14 ISU
#16 Baylor
#19 Texas
#21 WVU
#22 Oklahoma State
#54 TCU
#72 K-St.
#147 Texas Tech
Sounds about right to me. Way better than *better* than all those Big 12 teams like they are now, at least in the AP poll. They're good. But that SOS doesn't argue much.
It would be really nice if we could get ourselves back up into the #3 seed range with a strong finish/maybe making the finals or winning in Kansas City. We might get one more shot at Kansas or Oklahoma for it there. Doing a #4 or a #5 (not a huge difference between the two, though the first game will be with a team with a pulse and not a tomato can from a minor conference instead) is going to be rougher to have to go through UK/UVA/Gonzaga/Wisconsin/Duke in the Sweet Sixteen instead of in the regional finals.
For context...
#14 ISU
#30 Iowa
Or if we were looking at our conference...
#9 Kansas
#11 Oklahoma
#14 ISU
#16 Baylor
#19 Texas
#21 WVU
#22 Oklahoma State
#54 TCU
#72 K-St.
#147 Texas Tech
Sounds about right to me. Way better than *better* than all those Big 12 teams like they are now, at least in the AP poll. They're good. But that SOS doesn't argue much.
It would be really nice if we could get ourselves back up into the #3 seed range with a strong finish/maybe making the finals or winning in Kansas City. We might get one more shot at Kansas or Oklahoma for it there. Doing a #4 or a #5 (not a huge difference between the two, though the first game will be with a team with a pulse and not a tomato can from a minor conference instead) is going to be rougher to have to go through UK/UVA/Gonzaga/Wisconsin/Duke in the Sweet Sixteen instead of in the regional finals.
or they may notice we are 1-4 on the road in the conference with trips left to Texas, OKSt, KSt and TCU.
Really need a split this week.
...exactly like I said, Gonzaga played five teams in the top 50. They didn't play a ton of top teams. Also, when you look at Sagarin, Gonzaga is 0-1 against top 25, UNI is 1-1. Saying Gonzaga played a tougher schedule is certainly not clear. I'm not trying to say UNI is a top 5 team, I just can't understand how people can be so sure UNI isn't up to the level of the teams I've mentioned.
5 of 11 non-conference games against the top 50 is pretty freaking good dude. ISU played 2 of 12 and UNI played zero. I'm not saying UNI is a garbage team, but the idea they deserve a top 4 or even top 5 seed is ludicrous.
First of all, what you're saying is simply not true. UNI played two top 50 teams in non-conference- Iowa and VCU. Anyway, you're taking off points from UNI for playing in a weak conference, right? Gonzaga is in a weaker conference. At the end of the season UNI and Gonzaga will likely both have played five top 50 teams. If UCLA, St. Johns and Georgia fall a little, it could end up only being two top 50 teams for Gonzaga. Gonzaga is being considered for a 1-3 seed right now. Why is it so ridiculous for a team that is pretty comparable to them to be a 5 seed or better?
One AP voter has us at #11
http://borgesblognhr.blogspot.com/
Seth Davis (via his twitter) has us at #12
http://borgesblognhr.blogspot.com/
Seth Davis (via his twitter) has us at #12
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I forgot VCU, my bad. Everyone else is outside the top 50 as of now. That's all that matters, right now.
And it's ludicrous because UNI has played no one. Gonzaga is getting credit because they've played and beat good teams at least in the non-con.
I'm done with this.
You don't have to be consistent when you play 5 games a year that are difficult.
Here is the visualization of UNI's schedule vs ours for the whole year based on today's current Kenpom score. Notice that not only does UNI have 25 of the 35 easiest games, ISU has 20 of the 25 toughest games.
It's one thing to not have games against elite opponents. It's one thing to have a lot of really soft powder puff opponents. To have both? It lowers your ceiling considerably.
Of course UNI is still a good team, and this is simply my argument to say they don't deserve to be in the top 15 or ranked about ISU, not that they suck or anything. I think there's a reason that in the mock bracket that came out UNI and WSU were both 5 seeds. They simply don't have enough good wins to compete with these teams that play very tough schedules and win a ton of those games. Whether it's UNI's fault or not or nobody will play them (which is the most common reply I see) it is what it is. ISU tried to schedule up as well and guess what, nobody wants to come to Hilton to play either.
This is just my opinion as well, but once you get into the top 20 or 30 teams in the country, you start getting into a different arena than what is behind that. You are generally playing against superior athletes and the amount it takes to win consistently rises dramatically, in a non linear fashion. That's just my opinion though.
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Iowa is also in the top 50. And Wichita State is top 25. Just because they played Wichita in the conference season doesn't mean it's less of an accomplishment. UNI will probably have played a tougher schedule by the time the season ends, so your point makes no sense. Zags have played five good teams, only two of which are top 25 worthy. UNI has played two top 25 teams and one 26-50, likely to play two more games vs top 25 before the NCAA tournament. Zags schedule is not an advantage. There is certainly no reason why a 32-1 Zags team should be five seeds ahead of a 31-2 UNI team.
I like the graphic and you make good points. The problem I have is when people say Gonzaga/Utah should be a one or two seed but UNI shouldn't sniff a 5 seed. UNI has the resume of a 3-5 seed right now, with the potential to get up to a 2 seed if they win out and some other teams ahead of them slip up.You don't have to be consistent when you play 5 games a year that are difficult.
Here is the visualization of UNI's schedule vs ours for the whole year based on today's current Kenpom score. Notice that not only does UNI have 25 of the 35 easiest games, ISU has 20 of the 25 toughest games.
It's one thing to not have games against elite opponents. It's one thing to have a lot of really soft powder puff opponents. To have both? It lowers your ceiling considerably.
This is just my opinion as well, but once you get into the top 20 or 30 teams in the country, you start getting into a different arena than what is behind that. You are generally playing against superior athletes and the amount it takes to win consistently rises dramatically, in a non linear fashion. That's just my opinion though.
