ISU 12th in new AP

[Die4Cy]

The Associated Press is a bunch of story writers from around the country. WSU and UNI constitute a good story to them, so the AP elevates them more than they should be based on basketball prowess. It's built into the cake. The AP poll ALWAYS has one or two teams from minor conferences in it this time of year, whose basketball resume is exceedingly thin. As well as the Major Program with 8-10 losses but are ranked via the Name on the Jersey Clause.

I think we are all in agreement that the AP top 25 is not a tool for telling you actually how good a team is in comparison to the other teams "ranked" around it. It has NO qualitative or quantitative capacity to tell you this. It is a bunch of overweight sports writers who submit a ranking that they probably allowed an intern to fill out for most of the winter. It's only purpose is to generate more interest and more click-throughs to stories they've written about the various teams in the poll. To AP voters, the Valley will always have one or two teams worth talking about.

This does not mean the Valley has one or two great basketball teams. How could it?

 

[HFCS]

So given how the AP poll is generated (with lazy sports writers who don't necessarily pay attention to all schools) UNI could theoretically be deserving of their ranking?

At this point I am most curious what you think the word "deserving" means.

 

[DhaCheann]

Your RECORD is basically meaningless though, without knowing who you've played to get to that record.

As someone else said, why aren't a bunch of these small schools with gaudy records in the top 25 then? Obviously the AP voters consider who teams have played or all these teams would also be up there.

I agree. but with those other schools, they've all got 4+ losses against weaker competition

 

[dabears32]

This thread is great. How can a fan base that has had a lot of recent success be so butt hurt over being ranked a spot or two lower that another team in a ranking (or should I say series of rankings AP, Coaches, KenPom, BPI, probably others as well)

Its truly baffling to me. If we would have beat the Texas Tech on the road (The 6th place valley team beat them by 16 on a nuetral site, and we beat them by 500 at home) we would be ranked higher than them and also have a great shot at a Big 12 regular season championship.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

There a true lack of knowledge on the entire college basketball landscape in this thread.

If you think The Valley is comparable to a typical low major league, well, I have no idea what to tell you.

The media does a terrible job of helping the average fan distinguish between leagues.

 

[DhaCheann]

So you're like Cybyassociation's toadie? This is getting good.

Not sure what a "toadie" is, but i usually prefer Wario when I play mario kart. But no, I can definitely see what he's saying and I think there are a lot of narrow minded/biased fans on this site that can't give credit where credit is due.

 

[Cybyassociation]

So you're like Cybyassociation's toadie? This is getting good.

Probably one of my students that I offered extra credit to for coming on here to join my army!

 

[SAllen43]

I mean really, should UNI or Notre Dame or WSU be ranked that high? Probably not, i'm not sure i'd want to face any of them right now either. With UNI and WSU it's always going to be the argument that they don't play anyone. I'm sorry but the same can be said about Kentucky. This regular season they will have played a combined total of 5 ranked teams. Besides Kentucky and Arkansas who else is in the SEC? No one, so seems quite comparable to the Valley to me.

 

[LindenCy]

Checked into this thread to see if people had dropped the UNI talk...nope.

 

[HFCS]

There a true lack of knowledge on the entire college basketball landscape in this thread.

If you think The Valley is comparable to a typical low major league, well, I have no idea what to tell you.

The media does a terrible job of helping the average fan distinguish between leagues.

Tell me which of these MVC teams I'm undervaluing using Massey's composite of 40 computer rankings:
15. WSU
17. UNI
88. Ill St.
116. Evansville
152. Loyola Chi
162. Ind St.
242. Miss St
246. S Ill
250. Drake
262. Bradley

Which of these 10 teams am I overvaluing compared to those?
8. KU
10. ISU
12. OU
16. Baylor
18. WVU
27. UT
31. OK St
65. TCU
91. KSU
147. Tech

It's hard to compare the schedules. We play 6 teams two times who are all significantly better than the MVC's third place team, and another 3 that are likely still top half or mid level teams. This is about as impartial as it gets. It's not disrespect, it's just truth. That's why UNI has only 2 losses, the conference is not strong.

 

[Cycl1]

Not sure what a "toadie" is, but i usually prefer Wario when I play mario kart. But no, I can definitely see what he's saying and I think there are a lot of narrow minded/biased fans on this site that can't give credit where credit is due.

Now things are serious. Wario as your choice and not Yoshi might be the single worst thing in this whole awful thread.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Tell me which of these MVC teams I'm undervaluing using Massey's composite of 40 computer rankings:
15. WSU
17. UNI
88. Ill St.
116. Evansville
152. Loyola Chi
162. Ind St.
242. Miss St
246. S Ill
250. Drake
262. Bradley

Which of these 10 teams am I overvaluing compared to those?
8. KU
10. ISU
12. OU
16. Baylor
18. WVU
27. UT
31. OK St
65. TCU
91. KSU
147. Tech

It's hard to compare the schedules. We play 6 teams two times who are all significantly better than the MVC's third place team, and another 3 that are likely still top half or mid level teams. This is about as impartial as it gets. It's not disrespect, it's just truth. That's why UNI has only 2 losses, the conference is not strong.

Where in my post did I compare the Big 12 and MVC?

It's the ignorance in this thread that thinking that the Valley and the Summitt League or Horizon League or SWAC are all the same level. I understand it's tough to see from the pedestal some in this thread are sitting on.

I have to quit getting sucked back into this...

 

[alarson]

Rank the following teams. This isn't meant to hurt or help my argument. I just want to see how people would "vote" for these teams. Don't cheat, that'll take the fun out of it:

Team	Wins	Losses	SOS	RPI
A	22	5	1	.6861
B	17	10	26	.5728
C	16	12	13	.5770
D	19	8	2	.6273
E	19	8	36	.5977
F	9	17	15	.5048
G	20	6	16	.6356
H	19	7	8	.6251
I	26	2	51	.6127
J	16	11	3	.5769

Some of teams are obvious, but I just want to see how things turn out.

Edit: Posted too soon...meant to hit Go Advanced. Give me a minute to get the table set up.

Without comment on each of these (or figuring out who each is):

Id have a hard time rating anything that only includes a single SOS number without context on how that SOS was formed.

See a lot of teams are able to play games with that number. For most top 25 teams, for example, any 50-100+ win shouldnt count much more than any other because those are just 'expected'. Yet the computer-generated SOS number looks at a win over 120 as substantially better than a win over a 200+ team, when in reality neither game should have been much of a challenge for a top 25 team.

What matters to me when looking at resumes of teams that are at the upper end is more 'how did they compete against teams on the level they think they are at', the most important for teams at this level being against the top 25 and top 50, with markdowns from there for losses outside the top 50.

 

[CoKane]

Now things are serious. Wario as your choice and not Yoshi might be the single worst thing in this whole awful thread.

Koopa Troopa is the best you mother ******.

 

[HFCS]

Without comment on each of these (or figuring out who each is):

Id have a hard time rating anything that only includes a single SOS number without context on how that SOS was formed.

See a lot of teams are able to play games with that number. For most top 25 teams, for example, any 50-100+ win shouldnt count much more than any other because those are just 'expected'. Yet the computer-generated SOS number looks at a win over 120 as substantially better than a win over a 200+ team, when in reality neither game should have been much of a challenge for a top 25 team.

What matters to me when looking at resumes of teams that are at the upper end is more 'how did they compete against teams on the level they think they are at', the most important for teams at this level being against the top 25 and top 50, with markdowns from there for losses outside the top 50.

His SOS # is wrong by more than 50 spots for the team he is trying to pump up. It's an incredibly misleading and dishonest post.

 

[HFCS]

Where in my post did I compare the Big 12 and MVC?

It's the ignorance in this thread that thinking that the Valley and the Summitt League or Horizon League or SWAC are all the same level. I understand it's tough to see from the pedestal some in this thread are sitting on.

I have to quit getting sucked back into this...

Are they that much better beyond WSU and UNI? It's hard to imagine there are conferences where the bottom half is ranked much lower than what I just posted.

We're all aware the MVC is a mid level conference, it still is incredibly weak compared to a team where almost every game is vs a top 35 RPI team. Your league isn't as deep as it has been some other years, if it wasn't you could show me some things suggesting a 3rd team had at least a remote shot at the dance.

 

[GTO]

Cybyassociation and DhaChean:

 

[HoibergIsMyHero]

There a true lack of knowledge on the entire college basketball landscape in this thread.

If you think The Valley is comparable to a typical low major league, well, I have no idea what to tell you.

The media does a terrible job of helping the average fan distinguish between leagues.

I would rank the Valley as the 10th-11th best league

1. Big 12
2. ACC
3. Big East
4. SEC
5. Big 10
6. Pac 12
7. American
8. A10
9. Mountain West
10. West Coast
11. MVC.

 

[Mumbai1986]

JUst remember, polls mean nothing.

When the brackets are announced, UNI will be a 5-8 seed and ISU will be a 2-4 seed.

 

[SAllen43]

If ISU had UNI's record we would all be proud no matter if we played ranked teams or not right????...just sayin. Come tournament time the chips will fall where they may. Go Cyclones!