Bad day for the Steven can coach crowd.

[Bestaluckcy]

starting 2-17 from the floor isn't an "effort" issue. I also thought we defended pretty well last night. Our defense played a significant role in the comeback. If we weren't playing defense, we would have been down by 20+ at half.

The effort was terrible on the defensive end of the court in the first half for the first 15 minutes last night. They gave up no less than 20 transition points in that stretch. There was some cold shooting during that stretch but that is no excuse for not playing defense. Only when they played some defense the last five minutes (first half) did we get back in the game. The early second half was also pathetic.

 

[Cyballzz]

Didn't say that he doesn't get credit but I think there is context. In what fashion did the 2014-15 squad "luck its way" into a conference tournament title? The 2014-15 also included a 12-6 Big 12 conference record compared to 10-8 last year. As I have discussed at length in multiple threads I don't think that 2015-16 was a massive underachievement but I'm also not going to coin it a massive success either.

Well.... for starters.



I can not believe as a fanbase we have people that don't think going to the freaking Sweet 16 was a success. 5 times in history have we done that. What are we going to **** on the 2000 team for beating a 15, 7 and a 6 on its way to the Elite 8? Whats successful about that?

 

[Cyballzz]

We were fortunate to play UALR rather than Purdue. Once again this isn't Steve Prohm's fault just like it isn't Scott Drew's fault. You can only play the people on your schedule. But it gives some context to the Sweet 16 berth.

You do realize that UALR had to you know... BEAT PURDUE to play us right? They didn't just get a bye.

 

[rochclone]

Roch, there are some guys (not you) with an axe to grind and they will want him fired if he goes .500,

The guy has flaws no doubt, but I also understand the team is pretty much 1 dimensional as we do not have a front line player that has the ability to put the ball in the hoop.
He probably should not have recruited Malou, but also by all accounts, he brought in what would be considered the better of a group of grad transfers 6-7 or taller. As mentioned it was a really bad crop of grad transfer big guys this year.

I think 2018-2019 in an NIT year because most likely the guys playing with be frosh and sophs.
Maybe a couple of JC's sprinkled in or a grad transfer or 2.

He shouldn't be fired after next year...any reasonable fan understands that next year will be a major rebuild. I also think it will be fun to see what Donovan Jackson, Nick Babb, Lewis and Wiggington can do.

The crop of big men grad transfers last year was terrible. I thought people like L.G. Gill would be a difference maker at Maryland but he hasn't done anything. Livingston (Texas Tech) is the one that would have made a big difference for us. I personally think that 2018-19 should be a tournament team but I wouldn't advocate for a change if we are on the bubble and see improvement from the year before. But this again leads me to context. This year and how it ends is going to have an impact on how people perceive 2018-19. If we get to the tournament and win a game then I think Prohm deserves more rope in 2018-19. If we finish 9-9 in the conference, lose in the first round of the Big 12, and get surprised on selection Sunday then I think the scrutiny will be much higher in 2018-19.

 

[madguy30]

I really don't know if Prohm is out of his mind....but the more I see this guy coach, the more I'm convinced that He's In Over His Head as a power 5 head coach......

A team led by 5 seniors should NOT lose to a bunch of freshmen at Texass

2 of those freshman are McD's AAs.

ISU doesn't have anybody like Allen. Texas wasn't great last night but at crucial times they were better and it's really hard to beat better.

 

[CyBobby]

Are you forgetting that he brought in bowie and holden specifically for that reason? They have not proven to be significantly helpful in a place that we have such a big need.

I agree with one thing...bowie and holden are Worse than freshmen Solomon Young.....I say play Young all you can because Holden cant go 10 seconds without fouling and Bowie's rebounding Sucks Mega......

 

[CyBobby]

2 of those freshman are McD's AAs.

ISU doesn't have anybody like Allen. Texas wasn't great last night but at crucial times they were better and it's really hard to beat better.

In other words what your saying is an indictment of Prohm's recruitment of big men...I agree with that premise my friend.

 

[rochclone]

Well.... for starters.



I can not believe as a fanbase we have people that don't think going to the freaking Sweet 16 was a success. 5 times in history have we done that. What are we going to **** on the 2000 team for beating a 15, 7 and a 6 on its way to the Elite 8? Whats successful about that?

That layup was to tie the game. You must be assuming that we would have lost in OT.

The Sweet 16 was fun...I was in Kansas City and I was in Chicago. But I don't judge an entire season on a weekend in March. I look at the total resume. It is my opinion and I know that you disagree with it.
The 2000 team won the regular season title and the Big 12 Conference Tournament Title. That was an Elite Team that lost to the eventual National Champion. But even in your comments as a #2 seed we had to beat a non-double digit seed to get to the Sweet 16.

 

[awd4cy]

You should do a bracketology thread like 5k. You're always spot on.

How bout you refute this? Got an brilliant rebuttals? Their RPI is 50, got absolutely beat down by Vandy and OSU, lost to a Missouri team that is one of the worst all time teams form a power conference, all in the last 2 weeks. Also 4 of last 7 games are on the road.

 

[Gunnerclone]

We were fortunate to play UALR rather than Purdue. Once again this isn't Steve Prohm's fault just like it isn't Scott Drew's fault. You can only play the people on your schedule. But it gives some context to the Sweet 16 berth.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't UALR beat Purdue like one day before we played them?

 

[fsanford]

The young talented teams have a significantly higher variance. It can pay of great or it can be awful like this year.

Smart gets a much longer leash because of his strong record at VCU and the situation he came into. If they fail to make the NCAA tournament next year then he should be on a solid hot seat the next year.

Where do you get that Shaka came into a bad situation
Eric Davis, Roach signed in the early period 2014 under Rick Barnes, I am not sure that ISU signed anybody in the early signing period 2014.

he was handed lots of talent.

I guess he is lucky he is at Texas where the focus is football, if he was at Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke, with that roster and that record, they would run him out on a rail.

Anyway agree to disagree, I think he has a loaded team, and failed to cash in on that talent and has underachieved when compared to Prohm

 

[Tornado man]

Anyone that thinks Smart and Prohm are even remotely comparable has no freaking clue about basketball.

The OVC has two teams that have any history and Belmont didn't even join until 2012. If Murray State isn't competing for the conference title every year that is an absolute failure. So while Prohms record there was good it wasn't exactly anything special.

Compare that to Smart and VCU who started in the better CAA and then he transitioned them to the best high mid major conference and was still successful. He is also well known for his unique havoc style of defense he ran at VCU.

Then the teams they came into are vastly different. Smart came into a team that had just fired their coach and had been struggling. Prohm came into a consensus top 15 roster (even if there were holes you can't expect any better) and a team that had been very successful for the past few years.

No, I don't think you have a clue about Shaka Smart.
1. The VCU "glory years" were from 2009-2013 (NCAA tourney success, Final Four in 2011, at least 27 wins per year, being ranked, etc.) came when assistant coach Will Wade was there.
2. After Wade left to take the Chattanooga head job, Shaka's last 2 years at VCU weren't quite the same, both in the A-10 and the NCAA's.
3. Wade is now back as head coach at VCU, and the winning is back. They lost to Final Four team OU by 4 in the NCAA's last year, and they're 17-5 this year.
4. This Texas program bears absolutely no resemblance to the VCU teams of the past. Longhorn fans are asking "where is this 'havoc' we heard about?" It's not there because Will Wade is not there. Texas hired the wrong coach. They didn't do their homework.

 

[Gunnerclone]

How bout you refute this? Got an brilliant rebuttals? Their RPI is 50, got absolutely beat down by Vandy and OSU, lost to a Missouri team that is one of the worst all time teams form a power conference, all in the last 2 weeks. Also 4 of last 7 games are on the road.

Go make your bracketology thread and I will comment in there.

 

[Tornado man]

Where do you get that Shaka came into a bad situation
Eric Davis, Roach signed in the early period 2014 under Rick Barnes, I am not sure that ISU signed anybody in the early signing period 2014.

he was handed lots of talent.

I guess he is lucky he is at Texas where the focus is football, if he was at Kentucky, Kansas, or Duke, with that roster and that record, they would run him out on a rail.

Anyway agree to disagree, I think he has a loaded team, and failed to cash in on that talent and has underachieved when compared to Prohm

Amen. Barnes' coaching could be called into question, but his teams could rebound, and he could recruit. He left the cupboard full.

 

[WalkingCY]

Kind of how Fred topped out at the Sweet 16 and had plenty of erratic play from his teams.

He wasn't killing it at ISU like some people think.

Just to bring this up, (Steve is the guy now and Fred is never coming back), but this comment just rubs me the wrong way. In 2014, Niang was ******* on fire. Averaging over 20pts a game from the Big 12 tourney (which we won) on into the NCAA Tournament. When Niang broke his foot, it crushed our National Championship hopes. Make no mistake, if Niang didn't go down, that team would have been in the Final 4. 20 points a night was taken away. Ejim, Niang, Kane, Morris were playing so well. They got hot at the RIGHT time of the year. Still had a chance to beat UConn in a defacto home game for them in MSG. You have got to give Fred some love for getting us to that level. You're fooling yourself if you don't think that ISU had a great shot at taking the entire program to an even bigger level that year.

The program has been at a high level for a good amount of time here in recent seasons. There has been a lot of respect coming ISU's way IMO. I'm rooting for Steve, but this is why most people are upset around here. Even though this team is not as talented as the past couple of seasons, they still have the talent to be top 4 in this league, when last I checked has been ranked #1 or 2 the past couple of years. So yeah, not keeping us top notch has been a concern for some and I get that. That's also why Steve accepted the big time job here, to prove he belonged at this level. I think he has helped our defense in a big way, but offensively, we go stagnant at times. Ball movement has been a concern. Is it players attitude on that side of the ball? Leading to iso-hero ball situations? Coach needs to get it cleaned up and worked on every week.

If he fails to get us in the field of 68 now, there is going to be a huge camp of alumni/fans that are displeased with him, and his seat will be warm, deservedly so (It would be taking us out of the national spotlight, and thus would be a negative for the program - people don't want to get back to the McDoosh days). But, I don't think that is going to happen. We'll get in and it will be a great feat for our program reaching 6 straight NCAA's. Coach Prohm has a great recruiting class coming in and he STILL needs to keep us in the top half of the league IMO. He's a big boy, and being paid millions...he needs to keep ISU in the mix for conference titles and getting us into the NCAA's. As a fan base, I like that we are demanding and want to win and stay at a high level. We freaking deserve it. Hilton is an awesome atmosphere and again, our fan base spends a lot of time/money into ISU hoops (home and away from Ames).

 

[CyBobby]

Kind of how Fred topped out at the Sweet 16 and had plenty of erratic play from his teams.

He wasn't killing it at ISU like some people think.

A lot of fans and I am one of them thought that Fred Was Killing It ....after the McDoormat years.....If you put this in the lens of whomever the previous coach was.. and how much success the previous coach had...explains what is going on now with those pro and anti prohm factions in our fanbase......

 

[fsanford]

He shouldn't be fired after next year...any reasonable fan understands that next year will be a major rebuild. I also think it will be fun to see what Donovan Jackson, Nick Babb, Lewis and Wiggington can do.

The crop of big men grad transfers last year was terrible. I thought people like L.G. Gill would be a difference maker at Maryland but he hasn't done anything. Livingston (Texas Tech) is the one that would have made a big difference for us. I personally think that 2018-19 should be a tournament team but I wouldn't advocate for a change if we are on the bubble and see improvement from the year before. But this again leads me to context. This year and how it ends is going to have an impact on how people perceive 2018-19. If we get to the tournament and win a game then I think Prohm deserves more rope in 2018-19. If we finish 9-9 in the conference, lose in the first round of the Big 12, and get surprised on selection Sunday then I think the scrutiny will be much higher in 2018-19.

Agree if they don't make the tourney in a year where the at large field is brutal, more pressure will be on him.

Thing is for ISU fan a lot will depend too on if football improves and makes a bowl.
If ISU fan has something to hang their hat on in a major sport, they will tolerate next years hoops season much more.

If football is a 3 or 4 win then the pressure only mounts more on basketball, (well some people will start calling for Campbell's head but that will be short lived til hoops season starts).

 

[madguy30]

In other words what your saying is an indictment of Prohm's recruitment of big men...I agree with that premise my friend.

I'd say it's an indictment or reality of the history of recruiting at ISU since they've had exactly one McDonald's AA ever (Fizer).

I have no idea what he can do with his back to the basket, but I DO wish they'd feed to Young. He's been open.

The reliance on the pick and roll is interesting since I can't think of a time where the roll was actually a part of the equation this season.

 

[Desiigner]

Drain 18 3's and all of a sudden Prohm is the greatest coach ever, in fact so great that we have to start entire threads about how he evolved as a coach.

Right we played out of our mind that game and ku had 21 turnovers. I wouldn't be suprised if we finished the year 17-13. He's really "evolving" as a coach

 

[madguy30]

Just to bring this up, (Steve is the guy now and Fred is never coming back), but this comment just rubs me the wrong way. In 2014, Niang was ******* on fire. Averaging over 20pts a game from the Big 12 tourney (which we won) on into the NCAA Tournament. When Niang broke his foot, it crushed our National Championship hopes. Make no mistake, if Niang didn't go down, that team would have been in the Final 4. 20 points a night was taken away. Ejim, Niang, Kane, Morris were playing so well. They got hot at the RIGHT time of the year. Still had a chance to beat UConn in a defacto home game for them in MSG. You have got to give Fred some love for getting us to that level. You're fooling yourself if you don't think that ISU had a great shot at taking the entire program to an even bigger level that year.

The program has been at a high level for a good amount of time here in recent seasons. There has been a lot of respect coming ISU's way IMO. I'm rooting for Steve, but this is why most people are upset around here. Even though this team is not as talented as the past couple of seasons, they still have the talent to be top 4 in this league, when last I checked has been ranked #1 or 2 the past couple of years. So yeah, not keeping us top notch has been a concern for some and I get that. That's also why Steve accepted the big time job here, to prove he belonged at this level. I think he has helped our defense in a big way, but offensively, we go stagnant at times. Ball movement has been a concern. Is it players attitude on that side of the ball? Leading to iso-hero ball situations? Coach needs to get it cleaned up and worked on every week.

If he fails to get us in the field of 68 now, there is going to be a huge camp of alumni/fans that are displeased with him, and his seat will be warm, deservedly so (It would be taking us out of the national spotlight, and thus would be a negative for the program - people don't want to get back to the McDoosh days). But, I don't think that is going to happen. We'll get in and it will be a great feat for our program reaching 6 straight NCAA's. Coach Prohm has a great recruiting class coming in and he STILL needs to keep us in the top half of the league IMO. He's a big boy, and being paid millions...he needs to keep ISU in the mix for conference titles and getting us into the NCAA's. As a fan base, I like that we are demanding and want to win and stay at a high level. We freaking deserve it. Hilton is an awesome atmosphere and again, our fan base spends a lot of time/money into ISU hoops (home and away from Ames).

Niang also was prone to foul troubles and UConn was a bad match up no matter what. That year was also a year where there was no one better than anyone in the Sweet 16, so it's fair to say that yes, with some luck, ISU had a legit shot just like everyone else. If some shots fall and UConn doesn't shoot something like 97% from FT, they may have beaten UConn w/out Niang.

No guarantees on the program level after that. UConn has not been good since. I've already referenced several elite coaches who went to the NIT after winning NC the previous season. Also needed a coach that didn't have his foot halfway out the door like Fred did.

I can't agree that a fanbase deserves anything from anyone outside of playing hard and being good citizens to be proud of.