line ups when the 4 players out come back

[FinalFourCy]

Are you taking into account things like defense and rebounding, the two most important things for a post player, or are you just looking at PPG? Lard was close to averaging a double-double last year and averaged 2.2 bpg, Jacobson has 1 block so far the entire season. Lard is a better defensive post player and offensive player in the paint.

The only thing I think Jacobson is better at is shooting outside the paint, he has a little more range, can hit 3's and free throws, but Lard shot 60% from the field last year, which is highly efficient.

Jacobson is a stud no doubt, but I think you'll see his stats start to regress once everyone comes back, I think he'll end up being a 12-6 guy by the end of the year, expecting him to keep up 17-7 is asking alot.

You like your per game stats.
Per game stats are easy to define, but things like blocks per game aren’t a great metric of defense. JVB has great blocks per game numbers too, but he wasn’t a particularly good defender.

Jacobson is a better defender, both in positioning and on-ball quickness. Lard is a better shot blocker, but at times to the detriment of our defense and rebounding.

On offense Lard gets high praise for knowing what he’s good at. But the FG% comparison doesn’t tell you the impact of having an open lane. Jacobson has also shown some good post moves and drives, although I’m optimistic Lard has added that to his game.

Lard is a very good player, but he’ll need to have improved in the offseason to be better that Jacobson imo

 

[NoCreativity]

You like your per game stats.
Per game stats are easy to define, but things like blocks per game aren’t a great metrics of defense. JVB has great blocks per game numbers too, but he wasn’t a particularly good defender.

Jacobson is a better defender, both in positioning and on-ball quickness. Lard is a better shot blocker, but at times to the detriment of our defense and rebounding.

On offense Lard gets high praise for knowing what he’s good at. But the FG% comparison doesn’t tell you the impact of having an open lane. Jacobson has also shown some good post moves and drives, although I’m optimistic Lard has added that to his game.

Lard is a very good player, but he’ll need to have improved in the offseason to be better that Jacobson imo

I can compromise on that, I'll be the first to admit that I didnt pay that close of attention to his defense last year, just remember him being a presence inside and altering alot of shots. Its possible that he got blown by alot also which can be improved upon by better coaching and him buying into getting better defensively.

 

[LLCoolCY]

When everyone is healthy Im in the camp of going with Lard and Jacobson together.

Wiggington
NWB
Shayok
Lard
Jacobson

THT becomes our 6th man and still plays 25-30 minutes a game, hes a great talent but right now he hasnt been that efficient.

THT isn't coming out of the Starting line up... non-starter in my mind. A recruit that is highly ranked as THT (near 5 star) and has performed well enough already to be ranked in the first round of the NBA draft isn't losing a starters position. Even if he isn't "efficient" he demands Def attention giving the other players opportunities.

A starting line-up with Lard&Jacobson is lacking enough players to hit shots on the perimeter. I don't fully buy into Jacobson shooting above 35% from 3 to open the paint for NWB, MS, THT and LW slash to the rim with both Lard and Jacobson.

There is a reason that Lard was named an honorable mention All Big 12 player after his first year it is his talent. The ceiling of this team especially defensively is very high with him playing C with ISU's long interchangeable Guard/Forwards. In addition, Lard doesn't need the ball in his hands to score/impact rather rebound and playing off those guards penetration (ally-oops) allowing for THT and LW to get their required touches.
I like the idea of Jacobson first off the bench with T-Hal and Lewis would give ISU a nice offensive boost against opponents second units. Jacobson could be the pivot in the offense in that situation and really produce.

 

[Halincandenza]

Are people just assuming Lard is the exact same as last year and hasn't improved in anything?

 

[NoCreativity]

A starting line-up with Lard&Jacobson is lacking someone between LW and THT to hit shots on the perimeter.

You mean someone like our best offensive player who averages 19 points a game? I think we'll be fine with Shayok on the outside or taking it to the basket.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Correct. It's actually better than Jacobson's play.

Better in the per game stats on a bad team kind of way, that’s true. Unfortunately, it’s not quite up to meaning Lard has ever matched Jacobson’s play in these 7 games.

 

[NoCreativity]

THT isn't coming out of the Starting line up... non-starter in my mind. A recruit that is highly ranked as THT (near 5 star) and has performed well enough already to be ranked in the first round of the NBA draft isn't losing a starters position. Even if he isn't "efficient" he demands Def attention giving the other players opportunities.

A starting line-up with Lard&Jacobson is lacking enough players to hit shots on the perimeter. I don't fully buy into Jacobson shooting above 35% from 3 to open the paint for NWB, MS, THT and LW slash to the rim with both Lard and Jacobson.

There is a reason that Lard was named an honorable mention All Big 12 player after his first year it is his talent. The ceiling of this team especially defensively is very high with him playing C with ISU's long interchangeable Guard/Forwards. In addition, Lard doesn't need the ball in his hands to score/impact rather rebound and playing off those guards penetration (ally-oops) allowing for THT and LW to get their required touches.
I like the idea of Jacobson first off the bench with T-Hal and Lewis would give ISU a nice offensive boost against opponents second units. Jacobson could be the pivot in the offense in that situation and really produce.

Who do you sit then when Wiggington comes back? We have 6 studs for 5 positions. Do I dare say NWB? Somebody is going to have to bite the bullet and come off the bench.

Honestly, although I would rather have Lard and Jacobson start together, I think its more likely Prohm keeps THT in the lineup like you said, and then bring Lard off the bench. I dont think thats the best idea, but I think thats most likely what Prohm will do.

 

[brokenloginagain]

Such a fascinating roster this year, even moreso with the injuries/suspensions.

1. can lard and jake play together? who knows?!? (I'd argue no, but i'm sure we'll try)
2. what if THT has more nba buzz than wigg - hope the chemistry is ok
3. Solo might not play much, because 2 guys are better than him
4. Talley might be a great glue guy, he might only get spot minutes - i could go either way
5. Halliburton has such a great feel, and at 6'5" is so long he can be disruptive. what a great positive surprise.
6. Babb is such a complete player, but can his body withstand 38 mpg? Maybe he's better at 30 mpg.

IF we can figure out chemistry, and play good D....the upside is so great. We could really have a stud 7-8 guy rotation and do big things.

 

[LarryISU]

I think you can compare our situation right now to the Boston Celtics. They did fairly well last year without their two best players, Hayward and Irving. Now this year those two are back and the Celtics have been just average so far.

We seem to have a really good thing going with our starting 5 right now. I think we have to be really careful about upsetting that momentum and consistency. Work Lard and Talley back in as players to come off the bench and play 3-5 minutes at a time. Allow them a few games to get familiar with the speed and style and effort and teamwork that our current starters have developed which has been working so well. I am hopeful CSP is slow to alter the current balance of power that has given us a good start to the season.

 

[IASTATE07]

I can compromise on that, I'll be the first to admit that I didnt pay that close of attention to his defense last year, just remember him being a presence inside and altering alot of shots. Its possible that he got blown by alot also which can be improved upon by better coaching and him buying into getting better defensively.

You talk out of your ass so much.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I think you can compare our situation right now to the Boston Celtics. They did fairly well last year without their two best players, Hayward and Irving. Now this year those two are back and the Celtics have been just average so far.

We seem to have a really good thing going with our starting 5 right now. I think we have to be really careful about upsetting that momentum and consistency. Work Lard and Talley back in as players to come off the bench and play 3-5 minutes at a time. Allow them a few games to get familiar with the speed and style and effort and teamwork that our current starters have developed which has been working so well. I am hopeful CSP is slow to alter the current balance of power that has given us a good start to the season.

Nice point -- individual talent and athleticism matter, but this is fundamentally a team game. Sometimes you are more (or less) than the sum of your parts.

Virginia has the best defense season after season, but I would say none of the Cavaliers are terrific individual defenders. They just play a good system and play it together, and if somebody is not going to contribute to it, they are going to pay benchwarmer.

We stumbled into a lineup that works well together, even if we arrived at it through injuries and necessity instead of experimentation early in the season.

NWB as a distributing PG, who can get his own, but mostly looks to facilitate
Haliburton concentrates on moving the ball and hitting open threes
Shayok and THT looking to score from the wing or look for the fast break
Jacobson always bringing energy and effort on the boards, but also looking to move the ball and being a perfect complement to Nick on the PNR action
Ball always moving, nobody is selfish, rarely do we take bad shots
On defense, they are switchtastic on the perimeter, almost 1-5 really, and smart about doubling in the post and recovery after a switch or mistmatch

This team is way more than the sum of its parts at the moment. That is great.

Introducing extraneous elements into a system that is working well is always a risk. If it is not broke, do not fix it. Wigginton and Lard were high-usage guys on a bad team last season, and while Lard was efficient mostly because of his rebounding, Wigginton was a bit of a chucker from mid-range and turned the ball over quite a lot.

He might be the best shooter on the team, though, and I know he can streak and drive at least as well as Shayok and Horton-Tucker, so there is a path for him to contribute greatly to this team (certainly more than the minutes turned in by Lewis and Griffin so far out there) if he makes the choice to play the same sort of role in the offense.

Wigginton is going to need to play like Haliburton -- a 3&D wing -- if he wants to contribute to the team. He is going to need to learn to share primary scoring duties with two others on the perimeter (Shayok and THT) with reduced touches, too, and to move the ball.

I do not know if that mixes with his NBA ambitions of being a PG when Nick is so obviously better at the role right now (or was last season). Is switching out Haliburton so Wigginton can try to play like Haliburton, not like LW last year, really an improvement?

I know Wigginton is more talented, but Haliburton is doing his job to a tee right now.

 

[LLCoolCY]

Nice point -- individual talent and athleticism matter, but this is fundamentally a team game. Sometimes you are more (or less) than the sum of your parts.

Virginia has the best defense season after season, but I would say none of the Cavaliers are terrific individual defenders. They just play a good system and play it together, and if somebody is not going to contribute to it, they are going to pay benchwarmer.

We stumbled into a lineup that works well together, even if we arrived at it through injuries and necessity instead of experimentation early in the season.

NWB as a distributing PG, who can get his own, but mostly looks to facilitate
Haliburton concentrates on moving the ball and hitting open threes
Shayok and THT looking to score from the wing or look for the fast break
Jacobson always bringing energy and effort on the boards, but also looking to move the ball and being a perfect complement to Nick on the PNR action
Ball always moving, nobody is selfish, rarely do we take bad shots
On defense, they are switchtastic on the perimeter, almost 1-5 really, and smart about doubling in the post and recovery after a switch or mistmatch

This team is way more than the sum of its parts at the moment. That is great.

Introducing extraneous elements into a system that is working well is always a risk. If it is not broke, do not fix it. Wigginton and Lard were high-usage guys on a bad team last season, and while Lard was efficient mostly because of his rebounding, Wigginton was a bit of a chucker from mid-range and turned the ball over quite a lot.

He might be the best shooter on the team, though, and I know he can streak and drive at least as well as Shayok and Horton-Tucker, so there is a path for him to contribute greatly to this team (certainly more than the minutes turned in by Lewis and Griffin so far out there) if he makes the choice to play the same sort of role in the offense.

Wigginton is going to need to play like Haliburton -- a 3&D wing -- if he wants to contribute to the team. He is going to need to learn to share primary scoring duties with two others on the perimeter (Shayok and THT) with reduced touches, too, and to move the ball.

I do not know if that mixes with his NBA ambitions of being a PG when Nick is so obviously better at the role right now (or was last season). Is switching out Haliburton so Wigginton can try to play like Haliburton, not like LW last year, really an improvement?

I know Wigginton is more talented, but Haliburton is doing his job to a tee right now.

I understand wanting to just stay with what is working and while that has won with mid majors and a poor Mizzou (with LW) & Illinois teams and a solid SDSU squad it doesn't necessarily mean it will against B12 teams. The good thing is Prohm does have a line up that works but integrating new player can work just as well or better and the rest of the non-con he will experiment. I assume Wigginton was a starter all summer and game 1, and is still Prohm's plan to feature him to help his pro stock. I don't see LW losing his job due to an injury once back to 100%, nor should he. He also shouldn't be asked to play 3-D like Haliburton has. Lindell ability to get to lane and finish is elite in college basketball and should be utilized. It is what makes him such an impact-full player. ISU can succeed with multiple lineups and there shouldn't be requirements that the SG only are 3-D.

Lard being away from the team this summer has only been practicing with the team the past couple of month is a little more risk to disrupt chemistry with the new players. That said, his style of play should be very easy to integrate since he won't be the focal point of the offense and really just rebound/defend with the quality of ISU guards.

 

[NoCreativity]

You talk out of your ass so much.

Mckay 2.4 bpg the year he won DPOY, Lard 2.2 bpg last year. I know its not the only factor, but I suppose Lard sucks at defense even though he almost matched a conference POY in one defensive stat?

If they block that many, how many more are the altering per game? I remember Mckay very well, there were numerous times players drove past him for a layup or drew a foul, doesnt mean he sucked at defense.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I understand wanting to just stay with what is working and while that has won with mid majors and a poor Mizzou (with LW) & Illinois teams and a solid SDSU squad it doesn't necessarily mean it will against B12 teams. The good thing is Prohm does have a line up that works but integrating new player can work just as well or better and the rest of the non-con he will experiment. I assume Wigginton was a starter all summer and game 1, and is still Prohm's plan to feature him to help his pro stock. I don't see LW losing his job due to an injury once back to 100%, nor should he. He also shouldn't be asked to play 3-D like Haliburton has. Lindell ability to get to lane and finish is elite in college basketball and should be utilized. It is what makes him such an impact-full player. ISU can succeed with multiple lineups and there shouldn't be requirements that the SG only are 3-D.

Lard being away from the team this summer has only been practicing with the team the past couple of month is a little more risk to disrupt chemistry with the new players. That said, his style of play should be very easy to integrate since he won't be the focal point of the offense and really just rebound/defend with the quality of ISU guards.

Theoretically, Wigginton could be the best of both worlds -- move the ball like Haliburton, slash like THT and Shayok, all while being the best shooter of them all.

If he pounds the rock, turns the ball over, and dribbles into traffic without a plan before chucking up contested junk then, yeah, he is not really helping us.

You only need so many featured scorers, though. Klay Thompson pairs with anybody and any roster in basketball because he is the ultimate 3&D wing. You do not have to do much for him in order for him to make everybody else better around him.

We would be better served on the wing with a complementary wing than the bad parts of Wigginton's game last year. Haliburton has been really good so far, and his game really complements the rest of the lineup. Then again, like I laid out above, if Wiggi does what is most useful to us, then he is going to make us even better.

Even if all he does is replace the borderline replacement-level minutes given to us by Lewis and Griffin, then we improve by a few points per game as a whole. That might not seem like much, but in the grand scheme of things that can win you a few games.

 

[IASTATE07]

Mckay 2.4 bpg the year he won DPOY, Lard 2.2 bpg last year. I know its not the only factor, but I suppose Lard sucks at defense even though he almost matched a conference POY in one defensive stat?

If they block that many, how many more are the altering per game? I remember Mckay very well, there were numerous times players drove past him for a layup or drew a foul, doesnt mean he sucked at defense.

I assume Jacobson must not alter shots either. Lard seemed to get in foul trouble which apparently isn't a concern of yours.

 

[Rural]

I will sure be interested in how a line-up that has both Lard and Jacobson looks.

Watch that linked YouTube clip of Texas Tech and drool.

 

[Psiclone]

I assume Jacobson must not alter shots either. Lard seemed to get in foul trouble which apparently isn't a concern of yours.

Actually, Lard getting into foul trouble is NOT a concern based on last season's stats. His shot blocking ability compared to Jacobson's essentially non-existent blocks this season is a huge advantage as it not only affects the possessions where the shots were blocked, but on other possessions as well as it will make opposing players more hesitant to go into the lane.

Also, with increased strength/weight, Lard will be better able to hold defensive position vs. last year, which should decrease his fouls/game. He will also be more effective in the low post on offense which will open up the outside shooters much more than Jacobson playing in the low post, even though Jacobson has surprised everyone with some low post moves, esp. his baby hook.

Jacobson 2018: .1 blocks/game
Lard 2017: 2.2 blocks/game

Jacobson 2018: 1.6 PF/game
Lard 2017: 2.8 PF/game

 

[FinalFourCy]

Theoretically, Wigginton could be the best of both worlds -- move the ball like Haliburton, slash like THT and Shayok, all while being the best shooter of them all.

If he pounds the rock, turns the ball over, and dribbles into traffic without a plan before chucking up contested junk then, yeah, he is not really helping us.

You only need so many featured scorers, though. Klay Thompson pairs with anybody and any roster in basketball because he is the ultimate 3&D wing. You do not have to do much for him in order for him to make everybody else better around him.

We would be better served on the wing with a complementary wing than the bad parts of Wigginton's game last year. Haliburton has been really good so far, and his game really complements the rest of the lineup. Then again, like I laid out above, if Wiggi does what is most useful to us, then he is going to make us even better.

Even if all he does is replace the borderline replacement-level minutes given to us by Lewis and Griffin, then we improve by a few points per game as a whole. That might not seem like much, but in the grand scheme of things that can win you a few games.

Agree.
Prohm has a challenge this year. If you take Wigginton’s ability as a scorer and apply as needed, this team gets appreciably better. Apply without discretion, and we’re not better.

Wigginton’s draft stock isn’t an objective, although hopefully it’s a positive externality.

 

[AgronoCy]

Are people just assuming Lard is the exact same as last year and hasn't improved in anything?

I don’t think it’s wrong for people to be skeptical about how much improvement he’s made when he spent the whole summer at a wellness center and not on campus. I’m sure he’s made some improvement, but is it really going to be noticeable and impactful is the question.

 

[Chitowncy]

I think you can compare our situation right now to the Boston Celtics. They did fairly well last year without their two best players, Hayward and Irving. Now this year those two are back and the Celtics have been just average so far.

That's a really interesting analogy. Hope we get better results once everyone returns than the Celtics are currently getting. It's a long season though, Celtics may get better and mesh better as the season goes on just like we hope we will.