Will Prohm ever win a championship?

[alarson]

This is a Straw Man. Per usual you change the topic.

Prohm has already accomplished more at ISU than Mac did by winning a Conf Tourney Champ

Big deal. Having a few good games in a home environment with Hoiberg's players... how long should he be able to coast on that?

Hell, mcdermott may have done well his first couple years if he had inherited what Prohm did. Will never know. He certainly did alright before and after he came here.

Also you dont know what a 'straw man' is.

 

[GTO]

There's no meltdown like a CF meltdown 'cause a CF meltdown don't stop.

 

[randomfan44]

Iowa State needs to get physically bigger and mentally tougher. Even their guards. They play "aggressive" by attacking the rim but they put so much effort into avoiding contact that they end up putting up terrible shots that have little chance of actually going in. Which is fine if you have big forwards who can go get an offensive rebound but they don't. Some of the shots I see Wigginton, THT and Halliburton put up are basically turnovers. KU's Mason struggled with that his first two years before he finally figured it out.

Too much finesse and not enough toughness. When you are battling in conference games you just cannot play that soft and expect to win.

 

[jctisu]

There are reasons teams lose. But what I see is an ISU team that goes up against opponents that consistently have a better game plan coming in and execute that gameplan better. We're talking about getting absolutely run out of the gym against TCU at home and looked better in every aspect, A Baylor team that went to the paint all game and looked superior almost all game, a subpar Oklahoma team that drove the ball down our throat and outplayed us all except the last 5 minutes where shayok played out of his mind.
I just see teams that come in with plans and execute those plans while we sit on the outside and depend on hot shooting. We are too talented of a team to look completely befuddled at times and I don't think this staff is putting the players in a good enough position too maximize their talent.

If that makes me a drama queen then so be it. I am a huge supporter of Iowa state and was a season ticket holder until this year when i moved too far away. I dont enjoy complaining about prohm, but i'm going to call it like i see it and I do think many games we come in with an inferior game plan or he continues to play players that cannot execute that game plan.

Well said here. It's not being a bad fan or demanding we fire Prohm to simply raise the points in this post. I guess technically our identity is to just hope we shoot well from the perimeter, but other teams seem to have very recognizable game plans when we play them minus a couple of teams.

 

[Doc]

I hear ya. And don’t get me wrong I am not calling for him to be fired.

I think he is a great recruiter and person. I just feel like our fan base settles all the time and we need to expect more.

I think we should be realistic about Prohm right now and not blindly defend him. I am held accountable at my job and he should be as well.

I don’t like it when wanting to keep a coach gets framed as “settling”. I think it’s kind of manipulative. You could support getting rid of 95% of high-level coaches if you turn it into an argument of whether to settle or not.

 

[Doc]

Iowa State needs to get physically bigger and mentally tougher. Even their guards. They play "aggressive" by attacking the rim but they put so much effort into avoiding contact that they end up putting up terrible shots that have little chance of actually going in. Which is fine if you have big forwards who can go get an offensive rebound but they don't. Some of the shots I see Wigginton, THT and Halliburton put up are basically turnovers. KU's Mason struggled with that his first two years before he finally figured it out.

Too much finesse and not enough toughness. When you are battling in conference games you just cannot play that soft and expect to win.

Agree, and Babb is terrible at it as well. Our transfers even seem to get softer after coming to ISU.

 

[ISUChippewa]

I hear ya. And don’t get me wrong I am not calling for him to be fired.

I think he is a great recruiter and person. I just feel like our fan base settles all the time and we need to expect more.

I think we should be realistic about Prohm right now and not blindly defend him. I am held accountable at my job and he should be as well.

I'm curious, and genuinely not trying to start an argument with you;

What were your expectations coming into the season? I'm asking because I feel that going from a last place finish to a regular season championship is a pretty tall order, and one not easily done.

 

[CYcoFan]

Big deal. Having a few good games in a home environment with Hoiberg's players... how long should he be able to coast on that?

Hell, mcdermott may have done well his first couple years if he had inherited what Prohm did. Will never know. He certainly did alright before and after he came here.

Also you dont know what a 'straw man' is.

You are worthless to waste any time on. However, Straw Man - an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument

You said and I quote, "...it funny how some of the same characters who defended McDermott to the last minute are out here refusing to tolerate any criticism of Prohm whatsoever..."

That is a Straw Man.

A) I know what one is B) you are a serial offender when it comes to Argumentation Fallacy.

Edit - I hated McD and he needed to go. I am just calling you out for moving the goal post's so to speak and changing the argument to fit your narratives. It is wrong

 

[ClonesFTW]

Not many fans in the B12 would probably trade their coach for him, besides maybe Okie State.

Based on resume and in-game coaching I’d go with the following:

1. Self
2. Huggy
3. Beard
4. Weber
5. Kruger
6. Drew
7. Dixon
8. Prohm
9. Shaka
10. Boynton

 

[GTO]

@jsb with the anti-reverse meltdown troll? Love it.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Big deal. Having a few good games in a home environment with Hoiberg's players... how long should he be able to coast on that?

Hell, mcdermott may have done well his first couple years if he had inherited what Prohm did. Will never know. He certainly did alright before and after he came here.

Also you dont know what a 'straw man' is.

So, any credit to him for 3 road victories this season, since you specifically mentioned a favorable home count environment?

 

[Doc]

@jsb with the anti-reverse meltdown troll? Love it.

Not gonna lie, I find it sexy.

 

[madguy30]

@jsb with the anti-reverse meltdown troll? Love it.

 

[CoKane]

More like early January...at some point bad habits are doing more than youth. As a matter of fact it's seemed like the most glaring issues on defense have been from veterans.

*Looks at Jacobson especially*

 

[alarson]

You are worthless to waste any time on. However, Straw Man - an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument

You said and I quote, "...it funny how some of the same characters who defended McDermott to the last minute are out here refusing to tolerate any criticism of Prohm whatsoever..."

That is a Straw Man.

It isnt a straw man, its an observation. That the same people that always defend every coach to the bitter end are out here refusing to allow any sort of criticism of any coach once more.

B) you are a serial offender when it comes to Argumentation Fallacy.

 

[GTO]

Not gonna lie, I find it sexy.

It's like super aggressive passive-aggressive.

 

[clone1990]

I'm curious, and genuinely not trying to start an argument with you;

What were your expectations coming into the season? I'm asking because I feel that going from a last place finish to a regular season championship is a pretty tall order, and one not easily done.

My comment about settling is not specific to this basketball season. It is a general mindset that seems pervasive amongst Cyclone fans, even myself sometimes.

My main point is that it should not be a problem on a b-ball forum to analyze coaching.

For whatever reason many on here turn to word games or name calling when anyone brings up Prohm.

 

[deadeyededric]

Based on resume and in-game coaching I’d go with the following:

1. Self
2. Huggy
3. Beard
4. Weber
5. Kruger
6. Drew
7. Dixon
8. Prohm
9. Shaka
10. Boynton

All I know is nobody in the conference get's more out of their players than Bruce Weber. They are always about 10 wins better than their talent level.

 

[dirtyninety]

I'm just here because its raining outside.

 

[kingcy]

It's very quite simple, when you beat the 3 best teams in the conference, when Kansas is depleted, West Virginia is a dumpster fire, and you have the most talent in the league, it changes expectations a little bit.

4 of the 7 players that get PT are also underclassmen, they have ups and downs. The Srs are also not dominate players. This team has talent yes but most if it is young talent.