ISU vs Baylor Meltdown Thread - Only Game-Related Thread Allowed

[brianhos]

I didn't hear JP. But I did hear Ben take plenty of shots at the Baylor stadium and lackluster attendance.

Funny. A little bit poorly placed in retrospect, now that we got our butts handed to us. But still funny.

But did you see the attendance? It was really pitiful.

 

[Cyclones78227]

You said Gene inherited an empty cupboard. You are either too young or too dense to even know what an empty cupboard is. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former. Empty cupboards don't include a senior QB with 3 years of experience under his belt, an all-conference wide receiver, an NFL linebacker, or players like Rubin, Sumrall, and the others.

I know you want to put forward some fantasy that Gene is trying to create a Phoenix rising from the ashes, but it just isn't so. If you had seen what Mac inherited at ISU or what Bill Snyder inherited at Kansas State, you would actually understand what an empty cupboard looks like.

Another fallacy there, Monty, Mac inherited an offense that had 7 or 8 players play professional football of some sort, including some good offensive linemen.

How many players that Gene inherited are going to play any sort of professional football???

Second, and I love Mac, but you seem to think that by listing 7-8 players that played for us, this year or last year, that somehow the program wasn't the worst in the conference in 2006, that somehow Gene Chizik magically turned us from a power to a bottom feeder. That is not true.

The one thing that happened, and this can be attributed to Mac, but also Gene Smith, was that the facilities have improved. That makes the job easier.

I don't care that you, or the rest of them, don't like Chizik, that is your right. But please, don't re-write the facts to try to make a false argument.

 

[Tornado man]

Another fallacy there, Monty, Mac inherited an offense that had 7 or 8 players play professional football of some sort, including some good offensive linemen.

Then please name them. I can think of two players Mac inherited from Walden who made the NFL - OL Oliver Ross and RB Troy Davis.

 

[The_Architect]

Then please name them. I can think of two players Mac inherited from Walden who made the NFL - OL Oliver Ross and RB Troy Davis.

Tim Kohn and Pat Augnafa!?

 

[Cyclones78227]

Then please name them. I can think of two players Mac inherited from Walden who made the NFL - OL Oliver Ross and RB Troy Davis.

Tim Kohn played with the Raiders, and Doug Skartvedt also went to some camps.

 

[t-noah]

But, the thing is that Gene is upgrading the talent level on the team (I didn't say performance). You can see that we have more good players now than we did last year. And he is building with high school players, not a juco quick fix, so it is going to take longer.

They had a bad night last night, and the mistakes that the staff made needs to be corrected. We will see if they can learn from it, and not do the same thing over and over (remember the previous coach never did).

And whoever said you have to hit bottom before you can bounce back was right. Last year it was the Texas game, and then we came back and played well after that. Hopefully, this was bottom.

I will say this, I hope that the "fans" on here who want to boo next week just stay home, or tailgate, but don't go in. This team needs people to support them.

What we need here is patience. We are a young team and coaching staff; both made their share of mistakes. We had a bad game. We've had them them before and we are all more than tired of them. But really, how many of us would rather us be in a weaker conference or the MO Valley? Not quite the same getting up for Illinois (or Indiana) State. Tempting isn't it? I know this is a sarcastic question, but as hard as it is sometimes, I'd much rather be in a tough conference, this conference, because of the quality of play. It's just too bad that we are the doormats at this time and our quality isn't there yet. Trust me. I live in a MO Valley town and the football is not good...basketball is pretty good, but still nothing like the Big 12. With all that said, let's hope the other 11 don't vote to kick us out. Why would they want to when you think about it?
Bad game, hard to believe the contrast in the last two games. But it is just one game. Maybe Baylor is better than most give credit for, we'll see. Let's see if we can bounce back and play hard this year. Improvement is what we all want to see. It's understandable that we as fans want to be more competitive. We deserve better. We are longsuffering. But, we should not ever forsake OUR team. They need our support, probably now more than ever. Fair weather fans need not apply...just kidding, we need all the fans we can get! Just think how good it's gonna be when we do taste Victory on a more consistent basis!
Playing well against kNU and A&M in the next two weeks will go a long way in defining this season. Go Clones!!!

 

[Cyclones78227]

Tim Kohn and Pat Augnafa!?

Thanks, I forgot Pat.

Doxson played with the Dolphins, I can't remember the name but there was a receiver that played with Kurt Warner for the Barnstormes.

So we are up to six, using Monty and Tornado's logic, the cupboard must have full. I can't believe that Mac only won 3 games his first year, 2 his second year, and 1 his third year.:no:

 

[CycloneWanderer]

You said Gene inherited an empty cupboard. You are either too young or too dense to even know what an empty cupboard is. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former. Empty cupboards don't include a senior QB with 3 years of experience under his belt, an all-conference wide receiver, an NFL linebacker, or players like Rubin, Sumrall, and the others.

I know you want to put forward some fantasy that Gene is trying to create a Phoenix rising from the ashes, but it just isn't so. If you had seen what Mac inherited at ISU or what Bill Snyder inherited at Kansas State, you would actually understand what an empty cupboard looks like.

I'm confused, how do all of last year's graduated seniors mean that the cupboard for this year was full? From what you just told me, we should have expected to suck this year . . .

 

[MontyBurns]

I'm confused, how do all of last year's graduated seniors mean that the cupboard for this year was full? From what you just told me, we should have expected to suck this year . . .

Gene was the coach last year as well. The team he inherited included Meyer, Blythe, Rubin, and Bowen, Sumrall, Moses, Arnaud, Taylor, and let's not forget Brandtner either. That's known as an empty cupboard to some. I guess it is Mac's fault for not coming back after he was let go to recruit replacments for his 2006 & 2007 graduated seniors?

 

[Tornado man]

Tim Kohn played with the Raiders, and Doug Skartvedt also went to some camps.

Tim Kohn yes, but Doug Skartvedt never played for Dan McCarney, and never played in the NFL.

 

[Cyclones78227]

Gene was the coach last year as well. The team he inherited included Meyer, Blythe, Rubin, and Bowen, Sumrall, Moses, Arnaud, Taylor, and let's not forget Brandtner either. That's known as an empty cupboard to some. I guess it is Mac's fault for not coming back after he was let go to recruit replacments for his 2006 & 2007 graduated seniors?

That's not it at all, Monty, and you know that.

You list a handful of players, not even a full recruiting class of players, and make it seem like Gene walked into a full complement of talent. If that group was as "loaded" as you imply, then why were they only able to win 7, 7, and 4 games with Mac as the coach? You make that group seem like they should have won conference championships, and played in BCS games. I don't think the biggest Mac guy (and I was a huge fan of his) can look at the nine guys you listed, five only played one year with the new staff, and see that while they are nice players, that they could compete with their counterparts at UT, OU, T Tech, KU, MU, etc. And they were the best players that we had.

The depth of the lines (vital in winning football games) was/is non-existent. That is going to take some time, and recruiting and development, to fix.

Monty, please just stop. :no:

 

[Cyclones78227]

Tim Kohn yes, but Doug Skartvedt never played for Dan McCarney, and never played in the NFL.

Well, I am sorry that I missed that one for you Tornado, that must validate everything you say.

 

[Wesley]

We need to do something noteworthy and offensive this year so we can get some decent recruits. Defense in the Big 12? Get real. Those days are gone for now. Oklahoma gave up 45. The offenses are superior to the defenses in the Big 12. You need to score to compete, anyway you can. So go for it on fourth down.


I expected fewer penalties and some big offensive plays since AA could throw it on the rope. I was wrong. The defense has improved but the offense is not progressing.

 

[Tornado man]

Thanks, I forgot Pat.

Doxson played with the Dolphins, I can't remember the name but there was a receiver that played with Kurt Warner for the Barnstormes.

So we are up to six, using Monty and Tornado's logic, the cupboard must have full. I can't believe that Mac only won 3 games his first year, 2 his second year, and 1 his third year.:no:

Uh, I believe Augafa was a Mac recruit. He was on the all-conference "newcomer team" in Mac's first year, 1995. So, we have two linemen, Kohn and Ross, who Mac inherited. Plus, Troy Davis and Doxson. That's it.
I would be interested in asking Kohn and Ross if they think they would have played in the NFL if it hadn't been for Mac (and Steve Loney). Also interested in asking Troy Davis that question...

 

[Cyclones78227]

Uh, I believe Augafa was a Mac recruit. He was on the all-conference "newcomer team" in Mac's first year, 1995. So, we have two linemen, Kohn and Ross, who Mac inherited. Plus, Troy Davis and Doxson. That's it.
I would be interested in asking Kohn and Ross if they think they would have played in the NFL if it hadn't been for Mac (and Steve Loney). Also interested in asking Troy Davis that question...

Yeah that would be interesting.

Kind of like asking Bret Meyer and Todd Blythe if they think they could have made it in the NFL had they been coached for five years like they were last year.

I know the answer to that question. They loved Mac, but I don't think that you would like to know what they said.

 

[kingcy]

Actually, I think there is a significant difference in talent in college ball. Teams like Texas, Oklahoma and other perennial top ten teams have secondary players on their bench that are the types of recruits that ISU often can only dream of getting. However, what you said about coaching vs talent is also true.

But I think we are looking at way too young a squad to expect them to be producing their maximum yet. In other, more competitive teams, many of these young players would be learning the team's playbook and working with coaches to solidify their talents and remedying their imperfections as players as backup players first. Only because we lack a solid Junior and Senior corps across the board are we seeing the youth put up front. Normally injecting freshmen as defacto starters does not happen unless you are looking at some sort of player that is abnorally stellar coming out of high school. But we are looking at a needy situation. Think ISU of times past without a Troy Davis in the mix, (who was recruited out of Miami, FL) Lacking a standout offensive weapon(s) places more weight on the whole of a team's skill and execution of fundamentals than on the prospects of one unusually high grade recruit.

But there is a good side to the Baylor trouncing. While not easy to watch as either player or fan, the Baylor game is easy to dissect on tape as to why ISU was blown out, and most of it is correctable with the talent on the present team. Let's hope this happens.

I agree there 10, 15 maybe 20 teams that get better talent. But those teams do lose to lesser teams all the time. I dont feel ISU has played a team this year that has a ton more talent. Other than that I think we agree.

 

[mike4cy]

Everyone arguing late into the evening last night made me think of this picture...

 

[Flag Guy]

I can't believe that 2 years later we're still arguing about Mac vs Chizik. Most worthless meltdown topic ever

 

[superdorf]

I can't believe that 2 years later we're still arguing about Mac vs Chizik. Most worthless meltdown topic ever

Even worse... we are arguing about who recruited who.

 

[Cyclones78227]

I can't believe that 2 years later we're still arguing about Mac vs Chizik. Most worthless meltdown topic ever

I hate this, and I hate making the arguments. I loved Mac, but I also accepted Mac for his shortcomings.

The truth is, was, and will be, that the reason that Gene Chizik is here today, is because Mac didn't do a good enough job at the end of his tenure.

Is Gene better than Mac? I don't know because there isn't enough evidence, yet. That's like saying was Mac better than Walden? I think so, but it was a different time at Iowa State then too. Gene Smith helped Mac out a lot, just like Jamie Pollard is helping Gene out.

The agendas of certain people make this a bad thread. I am supporting Iowa State, not the coaches.