I think we have lots of talent on this team. Which points to the real deficiency on this team - the guy with a pocket full of chapstick.
This is why Prohm must go........
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I think we have lots of talent on this team. Which points to the real deficiency on this team - the guy with a pocket full of chapstick.
I'm not saying this is a good team or anything, but, in terms of the Big 12, this year, they've shown they have a chance to get that 5th place spot. They've beat down lesser opponents at home and took 2 teams on their same level to the wire on the road. I think they end up 7-11 or 8-10, which, this year will be 5th or tied for 5th.
Zion's shot is another one of those subtle Prohm coaching issues. How has no one reworked that shot? I watch alot of basketball and I literally have not seen one other player with that trajectory on their jump shot. How has this not been fixed?
I can understand not messing with the shot of a good shooter. But that's not him.
2 games ahead of 10th place is an alternate phrasing as well.
Hell at any given time we are just four wins away from an NCAA birth.
There are a couple of very interesting things about those stats imo.
First if you just told Nixon to stop shooting, ever, we jump from 31.7% to 34.1% which is in the top half and essentially a tie for second. If you take Grill out of the line up we jump to a league leading 35.4%.
For all the discussion about our offense in regards to scheme/sets I really don't see that. The sets we run are fine. In fact there are a lot of basketball minds out there that spend a lot of time talking about what we run. The problem is the personnel we are putting on the floor and not reigning in people that are trying to play a role they shouldn't. Our teams have generally been in the top 15 under Prohm regarding offensive rating. We likely would be again this year if he changed line ups/roles to limit shots from non shooters and get our 3P% up in the 34-35% range. We're 43rd in efficiency while allowing some awful shooters to shoot a high volume of shots. It's a line up/role issue not a scheme issue. If you read Kirk's recent article it's pretty clear we are taking way too many bad shots. Stop taking long 2s and stop letting bad shooters shoot 3s (mainly by limiting their time on the floor) and this is a very efficient offense.
The second interesting point from those stats if "Team's playing Iowa State" was a single team in those stats they would be the far and away leader in 3P% at 36.3%. I used to fall into the camp of there isn't a lot a team can do to affect opponent 3P%. This team has made me change my mind. I think there is limited things you can do to limit opponent 3P% once you are "decent" at defending the 3 point line. We are really bad at defending the 3 point lint though. We're just bad on that end of the floor period.
Completely different conversation, but D1 hockey at Iowa State would be a success, in my opinion.
A couple of things here. First of all Prohm literally got one of the best transfers in the country in Shayok two years ago and Bolton was listed as one of the best transfers available this past year. Sure some of them haven't worked out, but not all do. Secondly, Prohm probably preaches early playing time, but that's not always the case. Prohm doesn't just play you because you were a highly rated recruit in high school and he promised you playing time (Terrence Lewis falls into this category). Prohm also was very transparent to Xavier Foster that it's not a guarantee he'll be starting. He's a McDonald's All-American.
The second bolded item is also ridiculous. We don't develop players? We literally had 2 guys get drafted last year and have a lottery pick on the team this year.. You don't think Halliburton has developed since he got on campus? Also, expecting guys to develop a ton from their freshman to their sophomore year is a bit over the top. Guys sometimes need more time to develop into the player they're going to be.
Why is football being brought into this conversation? Are you actually criticizing Matt Campbell in developing players? Hakeem Butler and David Montgomery were low in the rankings and turned out to be some of the best players at their position in all of college football. Brock Purdy is being talked about being a 1st round draft pick. Kolar is one of the best tight ends in the nation. That's not development???
Finally, we obviously are struggling on defense and it's been that way ever since Fred became the coach. If you're a team that scores a ton of points, you're going to end up giving up more points. It happens. But I'm also not going to criticize us for making a last second 3 to win a game.. I highly doubt you were criticizing our defense when Naz hit those threes against Oklahoma State, D-Jack hit the three in Allen Fieldhouse, or when Shayok hit that three against K-State last year in the Big 12 Tournament.
Prohm is an elite identifier and developer of guards. He might be one of the worst P5 coaches for big men recruitment and development.
First off, the bolded isn't true at all. He's not an MCDAA.
As for developing players, I think he's talking about role players. I'm not sure how much "developing" we did of THT. I'm not even sure how much "developing" we are doing of Haliburton.
What he's talking about is guys that gradually come along and wind up good contributors for their sophomore, junior and senior seasons. It's really become very feast or famine for us talent wise. The good are very good, but the rest are not very good at all.
Missing the tourney occasionally is acceptable.
WV has gone 4-5 consecutive years of making it, then a couple of down years including one of them being an NIT berth at least.
On BT right now --
1-2-7
#7 nationally is pretty "elite" to me.
The top of this conference is ridiculous.
Texas Tech is next at #31.
Great analysis. I agree. If I can fault Prohm for two things this year --
(1.) He needed to shorten the rotation long ago. The offense is not really the problem, but some of the guys still playing within it definitely can be.
(2.) The defense is just awful. And I agree with you that, long-term, when teams keep making above their averages on three-pointers on you over and over again, I start saying it is you, not them, who is the problem.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Let's correct this new Huggins thing with facts.
WVU missed the tourney in their first 2 years of Big 12 play while they adapted to a new league.
Since then, one down year where they missed it.
Otherwise, 14 years in a row at Cincy, missed during his one year at K-State, and a constant tournament program at West Virginia.
If Prohm can amass anything like that record, he can have a down year. He doesn't have any of Huggins' pedigree, accomplishments, excuses (switching leagues) or any of that. He came into a golden situation and failed to keep it going.
So, for our list of failed comparisons made by posters in this thread:
1. UAB
2. Roy and UNC
3. Duke and Kentucky
4. UVA and UMBC
5. Huggins
Get it straight, folks. Effective coaches don't need continual resets like this during a successful run. This is just simply bottoming out a good program.
I agree fully with this, and I personally think Huggy is a much better coach, but think of the reaction on this board if we missed the tourney 3 out of 7 years, which is a lower percentage than the 2 out of 5 that people on here are already up in arms about. Personally I don't see this getting fixed next year for us (I think we will miss it next year too), but I hope it does.
Coaching defense is a mindset. Playing defense in basketball requires concentration, anticipation, and quickness. If you watch the best defensive teams in the country, you will notice they react immediately to the offensive player's move, and stay with him every step of the way.
On offense, you're basically one step ahead of the defender, because you know what you're going to do. Coaching players to play effective defense, especially players who are used to being the best player on the floor regardless of the opponent, can be difficult if not impossible.
Prohm talks a lot about being a tough-minded defensive team. I haven't seen that so far, which makes me wonder how effective he is at teaching it. Kids know how to shoot and score, that part is fun. Defense isn't glamorous, but it wins games, doesn't require a home court, and is portable.
On offense, you're basically one step ahead of the defender, because you know what you're going to do. Coaching players to play effective defense, especially players who are used to being the best player on the floor regardless of the opponent, can be difficult if not impossible.
Prohm talks a lot about being a tough-minded defensive team. I haven't seen that so far, which makes me wonder how effective he is at teaching it. Kids know how to shoot and score, that part is fun. Defense isn't glamorous, but it wins games, doesn't require a home court, and is portable.
So Xavier is a nominee for McDonald's AA, so my bad on that. And although there have been guys that haven't panned out, look at the develop of guys under Prohm that have panned out. Monte, Matt and Naz all played two years under Prohm and were drastically better in their senior seasons than their other two. Deonte was not even close to being the player he was his first year compared to his second year, also under Prohm. I guess that THT wasn't here long enough to show true development, but that's been an issue with Prohm. He has an eye for talent, that talent leaves, and he has to scramble to put a team together. That has to change and hopefully this incoming class are all 4 year players.
Halliburton most certainly has gotten better under Steve, but again, we may not be able to see him at his peak because of him leaving again this year. Solomon Young and Terrence Lewis are going to be the only players on next year's team that have gone through Prohm for 4 years. Babb last year was the first guy to go through 4 years under him. I certainly think Babb got better in his 4 years here.
I guess I struggle to say Monte, Matt or Naz really "developed" under Prohm. They were good when he got here and good when they left. But to each their own.
