Coronavirus Coronavirus: In-Iowa General Discussion (Not Limited)

[agcy68]

Okay so I'm confused now.. If you don't spread the virus, the virus doesn't jump around, and therefore the virus is kept under control. Right? I mean the reality is that lots of people are going to get this over the next year, but if you nip it in the bud right away, everyone doesn't get it at one time, and then hospitals don't get overrun.

We're not going to eliminate the spread or stop the spread completely, that would only happen if we could put a pause button on everyone for like a month which is not possible.

Sorry, there are too many self conflicting statements in your posts to debate with.

 

[isufbcurt]

Aren't they saying and doing that in other states, just not here in Iowa? What I have read, everything is closed in many states except grocery and gas stations. I spoke to my youngest brother yesterday, he ordered a new rock truck a few months ago, and when he called the dealership, in Kansas, they told him that they are closed down and he cannot receive the truck until they open back up.

Its a slippery slope when a business gets to decide if its essential or not?
I mean there is a story today on the KCCI website about a horse sell today in Southern Iowa, over 100 people are suppose to be at the sell, mostly Amish, and Gov. Reynolds said this qualifies as part of the food chain, how does selling quarter horses qualify as part of the food chain, these are not draft horses to pull equipment for the Amish, these are horses for their buggy's.

Not that I know of. Most are following the "essential" items on the Department of Homeland Security site. In fact Illinois actually added more "essential" categories.

 

[Clonefan32]

It's a stubborn, stupid thing that she still doesn't call it what it is, but she really should just call it that and shut up people who won't take a breath until she uses the magic words.

Kinda hoping she comes out today and declares a Shelter in Place Michael Scott style.

 

[Statefan10]

I am in favor of being as safe as possible as a population as it pertains to this. But to clonefan32's point, what does it matter at this point? Almost every person who would adhere to a shelter in place is already doing so.

There are still some non-essential businesses, like mine, that would be required to wfh if this mandate would come. Most of the people saying "we're fine and don't need to do more" are already in their homes and feel safe.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

I am in favor of being as safe as possible as a population as it pertains to this. But to clonefan32's point, what does it matter at this point? Almost every person who would adhere to a shelter in place is already doing so.

Huge horse auction in wayne county right now. Hundreds of people in attendance. Iowans are not "doing the right thing".

 

[Clonefan32]

There are still some non-essential businesses, like mine, that would be required to wfh if this mandate would come. Most of the people saying "we're fine and don't need to do more" are already in their homes and feel safe.

You really don't think your business would try to claim they are essential?

 

[Statefan10]

Sorry, there are too many self conflicting statements in your posts to debate with.

Yeah I realize I talked in a circle before.. too much coffee this morning I guess.

 

[Statefan10]

You really don't think your business would try to claim they are essential?

Oh I know we would, but that doesn't mean we would be granted that, nor would it mean my company wouldn't take necessary steps to help keep the workers safe. Mine would cut staff down to only the essential people who absolutely need to be in the office. I presume there are others out there like this company who would do the same.

 

[Al_4_State]

Huge horse auction in wayne county right now. Hundreds of people in attendance. Iowans are not "doing the right thing".

These maps generally disagree with you

But Wayne County is real close to some of those darker counties.

 

[isufbcurt]

Kinda hoping she comes out today and declares a Shelter in Place Michael Scott style.

I declare SHELTEEERRRR IIIIIIINNNNNNNNNN PLACCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[FOREVERTRUE]

Frankly determining what businesses are essential or not is a difficult task, because once you determine one essential business you have umpteen that support it in some way shape or form and umpteen others that support each of those. That being said I was thoroughly pissed off this last weekend when a Kirby salesman came to my door and said they had been deemed an essential business and wanted to come in and give a demonstration. Get the F outta here. That is ridiculous that these walking virus spreaders are allowed to continue business as usual. If anyone would get sick after they came to their door you would think there could be a lawsuit involved.

 

[Clonefan32]

Oh I know we would, but that doesn't mean we would be granted that, nor would it mean my company wouldn't take necessary steps to help keep the workers safe. Mine would cut staff down to only the essential people who absolutely need to be in the office. I presume there are others out there like this company who would do the same.

I think "granted that" is where you lost me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any state with an SIP is requiring you to stop doing business until you receive direct permissions from the state?

 

[jkbuff98]

I've already said she can call it whatever the hell she wants to call it, but regardless what she calls it, I believe she needs to do not only do more, but also re-evaluate her data/metrics. What's the tipping point of these elderly facilities? How many of those have to die before she ends up doing more? What percentage of those above 60 have to come down with this virus before she does something? If we have a higher population per capita than the state of Kansas and have more infected per 100,000 than they do, why are we not enforcing things like they are considering are states are similar?

See what I'm saying? She's waiting for things to get worse before she does more. That is the problem. If she does not believe things are going to get worse, then tell it like it is, stop tip toeing around questions, stop hiding your data, and be straight forward.

How does SIP affect the nursing home any differently than what they are doing now workers temps taken no visitors no communal dining or group activities separate those with symptoms .

 

[AuH2O]

No it's not going to be perfect, but I think the 45 other states who have done this measure have weighed those options as well. Saying we can't do this because it's "too hard" is ridiculous when other states are stepping up to the plate and are putting this in place.

But the reality is in all states there is a common long list of essential businesses that cover a large percentage of businesses explicitly, then they all have the exception for "businesses that help those on the essential list operate." So considering Iowa's explicitly closed businesses vs. those closed under the formal SIPs in other states, it's not that big of a difference.

Second, in terms of enforcement, almost all cities and states range between "we aren't going to fine or charge people" to "we could fine or charge people, but we really are relying on voluntary compliance." So at this point I would say there isn't really a lot of bite to the SIP in most places. Of course that could change, and having SIP in place allows that to happen, but you could just as easily do what Iowa's doing now, then jump straight to an enforceable SIP with fines in place and ready to be enforced.

I don't think anyone is saying enacting SIP is "too hard," because it's not. Enforcing it in a meaningful way in terms of actually making businesses close when they make the case they are essential or in support of essential businesses is hard. Enforcing people disobeying it by actually fining them or charging them with a crime is hard. That's why people are making a case that what Iowa has and most states' SIPs probably aren't all that different.

 

[Acylum]

I've already said she can call it whatever the hell she wants to call it, but regardless what she calls it, I believe she needs to do not only do more, but also re-evaluate her data/metrics. What's the tipping point of these elderly facilities? How many of those have to die before she ends up doing more? What percentage of those above 60 have to come down with this virus before she does something? If we have a higher population per capita than the state of Kansas and have more infected per 100,000 than they do, why are we not enforcing things like they are considering are states are similar?

See what I'm saying? She's waiting for things to get worse before she does more. That is the problem. If she does not believe things are going to get worse, then tell it like it is, stop tip toeing around questions, stop hiding your data, and be straight forward.

What we're doing now vs SIP wouldn't affect elder care facilities at all. They have the most stringent controls of any place.
Edit: A couple of posters beat me to the punch.

 

[isufbcurt]

I've yet to hear anyone put forth a compelling difference between the two, but if there is one I'm all ears. I looked at the California one posted above and I can't think of a single industry that couldn't somehow fit one of those definitions. I mean, look at some of these:

xiv.Businesses that supply products needed for people to work from home;

xv.Businesses that supply other essential businesses with the support or supplies necessary to operate;

xx.Professional services, such as legal or accounting services, when necessary to assist in compliance with legally mandated activities;

You don't think just about any business that's operating now couldn't shoe-horn their way into one of those?

Again, call it what you want. I just hope people don't think this is magically going to make people stay home because it's not the case. I'm all for being safe, and I'm distancing myself as much as I can. We've cut out anything even remotely extraneous, and I've encouraged anyone I know to do the same. But I'm just trying to be realistic about the level of shutdown we are going to see.

Not to mention the California one also says to still go outside for walks and etc, just adhere to the 6 foot rule.

Quite frankly the SIP, as someone else mentioned, is like the guarantee in Tommy Boy. It's just a phrase, that with so many exemptions barely does anything.

Personally a SIP in place doesn't change anything for me. I am still going to go pick up/deliver taxes for clients, I am still going to clients businesses to do their bookkeeping, I am still going to the race parts store to get racing parts, I am still going to Lowes to get supplies for home projects.

 

[Clonefan32]

Frankly determining what businesses are essential or not is a difficult task, because once you determine one essential business you have umpteen that support it in some way shape or form and umpteen others that support each of those. That being said I was thoroughly pissed off this last weekend when a Kirby salesman came to my door and said they had been deemed an essential business and wanted to come in and give a demonstration. Get the F outta here. That is ridiculous that these walking virus spreaders are allowed to continue business as usual. If anyone would get sick after they came to their door you would think there could be a lawsuit involved.

Oh, so you don't think hepa filtration is important in times like these? Just going to leave all those tiny germs living in your carpet there during isolation?

(Side note, kind of fun to try to figure out ways to make everything essential).

 

[Jer]

Since there are so many world-class statisticians and epidemiologists on here, today’s narrative behind the daily update may be informative or interesting...

It also evaluates their models at different dates versus reality.

http://www.healthdata.org/covid/updates

 

[Statefan10]

I think "granted that" is where you lost me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any state with an SIP is requiring you to stop doing business until you receive direct permissions from the state?

I'm not 100% sure how that works. I'm not sure if the local shoe store got a letter or an email or whatever, but they shut down. I'm not sure we would get something similar or if they would simply allow Iowa businesses to determine themselves whether they fit into those categories. I would agree that it would basically not change anything if they were relying on businesses to actively shut down themselves.

 

[Statefan10]

How does SIP affect the nursing home any differently than what they are doing now workers temps taken no visitors no communal dining or group activities separate those with symptoms .

What we're doing now vs SIP wouldn't affect elder care facilities at all. They have the most stringent controls of any place.

I would absolutely agree.. So why is this being used in our Governor's criteria in determining more drastic measures and how in the heck are these places still being effected to the extent they are?