*** Official Iowa State Season Thread ***

[Sigmapolis]

Underachievement is a during the season thing. The NCAAs are a whole other beast.

Relative to the talent, I don't think there's comprehensively a more underachieving team in modern program history than the one that had a rotation of six future NBA guys plus two great college players not winning even a share of the Big 12 regular season title nor managing to advance past the first game of the NCAA tournament.

That should have been a #1 seed season with a deep run in March, not a #3 and out in game one.

Did the Shayok team underachieve? Sure, yeah. Not as much as the last Hoiberg team did, though. Assuming both came to play on a given night, I would be putting a lot more of my own money on Monté and Georges.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Underachievement is a during the season thing. The NCAAs are a whole other beast.

I've been told otherwise because we "only" made the Sweet 16 in 2016.

 

[CycloneErik]

Relative to the talent, I don't think there's comprehensively a more underachieving team in modern program history than the one that had a rotation of six future NBA guys plus two great college players not winning even a share of the Big 12 regular season title nor managing to advance past the first game of the NCAA tournament.

That should have been a #1 seed season with a deep run in March, not a #3 and out in game one.

Did the Shayok team underachieve? Sure, yeah. Not as much as the last Hoiberg team did, though. Assuming both came to play on a given night, I would be putting a lot more of my own money on Monté and Georges.

That's not unfair.

 

[Nader_uggghhh]

Making a few less mistakes doesn’t make you a better basketball player. Wigginton won us several games by being the best guy on the court. NWB never did that once. Wigginton averaged almost 5 more points in 8 less minutes, shot a higher % from 3 and only averaged 1 less rebound in those 8 less minutes per game.

Maybe but I'm not sure that Wigginton could keep his feet in front of Carter Boothe. He's one of the worst collegiate defenders I've ever seen for his athleticism. It would've been cool to see him play for a coach that knew how to get his potential out of him.

 

[IP Guy]

Making a few less mistakes doesn’t make you a better basketball player. Wigginton won us several games by being the best guy on the court. NWB never did that once.

I get your point, and I recall you played at least some relatively high level AAU ball. So, I know you get basketball more than most on this site.

That being said, Monte never won us games by being the best guy on the court either, but he won us a TON of games by making the right decisions and making sure the offense was run correctly.

Each player contributes to winning in different ways. NWB is one of the more underrated players in ISU history because his contributions were not as obvious as other players' contributions.

Wiggy often impacted the outcomes of games more than any player on our roster, but he did it in both positive and negative ways depending on the game.

 

[IASTATE07]

Ok, ill admit I've been too hard on him and admit we've had some really fun times with him as well. People were talking about old seasons so I thought I'd give an opinion. Not everyone was around on these boards 4 years ago either. I'm jsut ready to move on and give someone else a shot now.

Who are you hoping Iowa State hires as their next basketball coach?

 

[NoCreativity]

Who are you hoping Iowa State hires as their next basketball coach?

Beilien or Kelvin Sampson would be my dream scenario. I'm realistic that probably won't happen.

I think TJ deserves a hard look, along with Craig Smith, and the Devries.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Beilien or Kelvin Sampson would be my dream scenario. I'm realistic that probably won't happen.

I think TJ deserves a hard look, along with Craig Smith, and the Devries.

Yeah, the first two aren't happening.

Pollard will bring up a MWC or MVC coach up from AAA into the big leagues.

It is all going to be "culture" and "fit," like it was with Campbell.

All of that screams TJ as the frontrunner.

 

[Iastfan112]

Yeah, the first two aren't happening.

Pollard will bring up a MWC or MVC coach up from AAA into the big leagues.

It is all going to be "culture" and "fit," like it was with Campbell.

All of that screams TJ as the frontrunner.

I could be convinced on TJ but DeVries appeals to me more as he's really built Drake's program up in a fairly short period. TJ maintained SDSU but Nagy already had the program in a good spot. TJ's results in Vegas or a bit of a mixed bag thus far.

 

[heitclone]

Fair point but 10-8 with 5 of those guys returning, arguably the best roster in program history, best top 6 hands down is rough. The year prior, Matt was still a work in progress, McKay had played 1 semester of p6 ball, Nader was a role player playing his first season in the big 12, Monte and Georges hadn't peaked, Naz is probably the only guy who returned that had more or less hit his upside. 15/16 was the year it was supposed to all come together. The Sweet 16 run kind of covered it up but we took a step back after trending towards winning the league. We haven't been a legit contender since.

 

[Clonefan32]

Damn, that looks like a talented bunch. I would have to assume we won more than half of our Big 12 games that year.

I don't ever want to hear it said that Prohm hasn't adapted. He realized his problem on that team was too much talent and not enough minutes to go around, so he's completely depleted our available talent to avoid that issue.

 

[quasistellar]

Fair point but 10-8 with 5 of those guys returning, arguably the best roster in program history, best top 6 hands down is rough. The year prior, Matt was still a work in progress, McKay had played 1 semester of p6 ball, Nader was a role player playing his first season in the big 12, Monte and Georges hadn't peaked, Naz is probably the only guy who returned that had more or less hit his upside. 15/16 was the year it was supposed to all come together. The Sweet 16 run kind of covered it up but we took a step back after trending towards winning the league. We haven't been a legit contender since.

And lets not forget that past the top 6 in the rotation during most of those years, the talent dropped off REALLY quickly. Monte was playing 40 minutes most games. ISU had a high ceiling with their starting 5 but the margin for error was zero. You catch one team that shoots super hot from 3 or you have one guy go cold or get tired and you lose.

On and let's also remember the most important thing about those teams, despite the (arguable) disappointment: THEY WERE FUN TO WATCH.

Watching our teams the last few years has been legit painful.

 

[NWICY]

Holy cow 4+ pages of going back and reconstructing old rosters and saying we would have won more if we would have played X. We all agree Prohm is on a short leash the question is when, but the past give it a rest.

 

[CycloneErik]

I don't ever want to hear it said that Prohm hasn't adapted. He realized his problem on that team was too much talent and not enough minutes to go around, so he's completely depleted our available talent to avoid that issue.

Well done. This one hurt.

 

[Thompsonclone]

Holy cow 4+ pages of going back and reconstructing old rosters and saying we would have won more if we would have played X. We all agree Prohm is on a short leash the question is when, but the past give it a rest.

The past is more fun to talk about than the present or even the future at this point in my honest opinion.

 

[Thompsonclone]

I get your point, and I recall you played at least some relatively high level AAU ball. So, I know you get basketball more than most on this site.

That being said, Monte never won us games by being the best guy on the court either, but he won us a TON of games by making the right decisions and making sure the offense was run correctly.

Each player contributes to winning in different ways. NWB is one of the more underrated players in ISU history because his contributions were not as obvious as other players' contributions.

Wiggy often impacted the outcomes of games more than any player on our roster, but he did it in both positive and negative ways depending on the game.

Unfortunately Marcus Paige destroyed me on numerous occasions but it was always a fun battle.

That’s true and I do agree that Babb helped the team a lot. He hit some big baskets when the shot clock was winding down. He did impact the game and help us win. I just think Wigginton impacted it more and when he played well, the team was at a different level as opposed to when Babb played well. We could beat anyone when Wigginton played his best. I think we can all agree that team had no business being 9-9 in conference and losing to Ohio State.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

He also wouldn’t have played Lard so much against Ohio State if his issues were really that bad. Meaning I think the whole “Lard was a bad teammate and cancer to the program” talk was so overhyped. He was eligible to play and Prohm didn’t play him. Lard wasn’t perfect by any means but if you play the guy, I’m sure his overall attitude is going to be way better. Prohm played him as a freshman and Lard seemed to stay out of trouble. Starting sitting a guy for little reasons and it’s hard to reel him back in. That team could have been so dangerous if Haliburton, Wigginton, THT, Shayok and Lard were given the freedom to play together. Jacobson and NWB are perfect bench guys if you ask me.

I wavered back and forth wondering how Prohm could possibly be starting Jacobson over Lard, but then Lard would come in and get whistled for a couple cheapies in 30 seconds. He just was not the same player in year 2 for the most part. You saw flashes at times, but he either couldn't get out of his own way or was chained to Steve's dog house.

 

[quasistellar]

I wavered back and forth wondering how Prohm could possibly be starting Jacobson over Lard, but then Lard would come in and get whistled for a couple cheapies in 30 seconds. He just was not the same player in year 2 for the most part. You saw flashes at times, but he either couldn't get out of his own way or was chained to Steve's dog house.

Honestly at this point seeing how things have shaken out, I'm more inclined to think Prohm caused Lard to regress instead of flourish.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Honestly at this point seeing how things have shaken out, I'm more inclined to think Prohm caused Lard to regress instead of flourish.

It's quite possible if all Lard was doing was smoking weed. Getting made to feel like you need rehabilitation over something as controversial as weed would have to be tough on a kid. But I'd like to know if there was more going on behind the scenes. Was he a good student, for example. I think there were issues with that initially, which led to the late enrollment and missing his first season.

 

[fsanford]

Yeah, the first two aren't happening.

Pollard will bring up a MWC or MVC coach up from AAA into the big leagues.

It is all going to be "culture" and "fit," like it was with Campbell.

All of that screams TJ as the frontrunner.

TJ has a team that is under .500 in the 17th ranked RPI conference in the country. Watching UNLV play several games this year, gonna say no thanks on TJ for now. They are nearly ISU poor, if not equal, and are fortunate to play in a weak league.

The MVC comes in at number 9 and you got a guy a few miles away coaching the team leading the league

No brainer on who you give a shot to.