End of January Update Coach Prohm

[Cat Stevens]

If they leave, they leave. When you're a sub-5-win team, your next coach is committing to a full rebuild no matter what. It could be 2 years before we even break much above .500 on a season, but that's part of the gig. Coaching changes bring fan engagement even if it's watching some losses for a while... Could we get lucky on both the hire and striking gold on players to be competitive right out of the gate? Maybe, but nobody is going to be expecting or counting on that. We need to make damn sure we do well on the hire, though.

That was kind of the point, shouldn’t we want the next coach to start recruiting to fit his identity right away?

It’s just a bunch of people were talking about how the new coach could take all these players that are here and build with them. That’s not guaranteed at all. in fact, it’s unlikely

 

[Cat Stevens]

You haven’t actually given an answer.

He didn’t win enough here. It didn’t work out for him.

 

[MeowingCows]

That was kind of the point, shouldn’t we want the next coach to start recruiting to fit his identity right away?

It’s just a bunch of people were talking about how the new coach could take all these players that are here and build with them. That’s not guaranteed at all. in fact, it’s unlikely

You can sometimes get away with retainment if you're hiring into the same style of play the last guy ran, but, uh... I don't think we want that in this case.

 

[Cat Stevens]

You can sometimes get away with retainment if you're hiring into the same style of play the last guy ran, but, uh... I don't think we want that in this case.

Yeah we’re not promoting an assistant, this will be a completely different culture.

whatever happens, the next coach (ok tj) needs to be able to hopefully be able to keep any current players he thinks can play in his system.

and hopefully, there’s a full off-season, and full preseason, and full non conference schedule to help them get their feet under them. Other than rah and solo and george and tre (whose been hurt all year) it’s been a new team. They needed all the court time they could have gotten, and it’s part of the reason they’ve looked so lost at times.

 

[MeowingCows]

Yeah we’re not promoting an assistant, this will be a completely different culture.

whatever happens, the next coach (ok tj) needs to be able to hopefully be able to keep any current players he thinks can play in his system.

and hopefully, there’s a full off-season, and full preseason, and full non conference schedule to help them get their feet under them. Other than rah and solo and george and tre (whose been hurt all year) it’s been a new team. They needed all the court time they could have gotten, and it’s part of the reason they’ve looked so lost at times.

Evidence from UNLV says TJ isn't much of a keeper over build-fresh guy, but I suppose that's different for each set of players you're working with. And yes, a normal, non-pandemic year would help tremendously to get started.

 

[awd4cy]

You are completely clueless when it comes to coaching changes and rebuilding. The new coach isn’t going to come in, cut every player, and just sign a whole new team and we are suddenly good again. Yes some players will leave, but you’re just acting like an idiot.

Not only does he act like an idiot, he is an idiot.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Not only does he act like an idiot, he is an idiot.

I will continue to defer to your lifetime of experience and level of mastery on the subject

 

[awd4cy]

drawing up designs to help you improve the fred hoiberg shrine you have in your family room

It’s starting to look like you have a Prohm shrine. You get so defensive about him.

 

[Cat Stevens]

It’s starting to look like you have a Prohm shrine. You get so defensive about him.

Imagine only being able to see the world with no sense of nuance or depth.

I’m sure it’s easier though

 

[mynameisjonas]

Really surprising to see people push for or even float Niko Medved as an option.

I guess if we are looking to hire the shortest person possible, he would be a good choice.

 

[rochclone]

Really surprising to see people push for or even float Niko Medved as an option.

I guess if we are looking to hire the shortest person possible, he would be a good choice.

Have you watched any Colorado State this year? They are a fun team to watch. 148 made 3’s in 15 games. They have 5 players that have 18 or more made 3’s this year. I’m not sure if he would be the right fit from a “job jumper” perspective but the dude has won at Furman, Drake and Colorado State. Plus he can recruit Minnesota.

 

[Tpups21]

Really surprising to see people push for or even float Niko Medved as an option.

I guess if we are looking to hire the shortest person possible, he would be a good choice.

Just not a fan of Medved after the way things went down at Drake.

 

[Carnegie]

People that continue to blame ISU's terrible 2020/21 basketball team on the early departures of Wigginton, Lard, Halliburton and Horton-Tucker need to stop that false narrative for a few reasons:

• If a coach recruits ELITE talent they are going to leave early and the head coach knows that.
  • When Wigginton came to ISU from Oak Hill, his stated goal was to be the first NBA player from Novia Scotia. He came to ISU very open to being a one-and-done player.
  • I don't recall Horton-Tucker being as open about being a one-and-done player. But based on his jumping after one year, seems to me that was a strong consideration for Horton-Tucker (and his family, handlers, etc.) before he ever stepped foot on the Iowa State campus. It's not like THT had promises to be a lottery pick after an inconsistent freshman year at ISU. I would be highly surprised if THT kept his dreams and plans secret from Coach Prohm and his staff during the recruitment process.
  • Halliburton jumping after his sophomore year would not have been a consideration when Halliburton was recruiting and signed by ISU. But after playing on the USA National Team during the summer of 2019, he was projected as a lottery pick. So midway through the 2019/20 recruiting cycle the ISU coaching staff were well aware there was a VERY HIGH likelihood they would lose Halliburton after his sophomore year.
• If a coach recruits guys with baggage coming during their HS career, then there is a high probability they leave early. Lard was a very talented post player, but also a high risk recruit. Sometimes recruiting risks payoff with guys like Royce White, other times they don't like Lard. Nothing new, Larry Eustachy's teams fell off after Tinsley because he had a number of talented players wash-out (Chris Alexander) or never show up (Jerome Harper).
• Basketball isn't like football where a turnaround is a 3-4 year process. In basketball a coach can turn a program around quickly because it only takes 2-3 really good players to have a top 25 program. Fred Hoiberg did it in 2 years. Beard at Tech retooled his roster a couple years ago by bringing in something like 10 new players in 1 off-season.
• Lastly and most importantly, ISU isn't winless in Big12 play because of the four players mentioned at the beginning of this post. ISU is winless because of the recruiting misses over the last 4 recruiting cycles: Lewis, Griffin, Conditt, Anderson, Leech and Grill. I will give Jackson, Walker, Dubar and Blackwell too-soon-to-tell grades. But to be honest, so far I don't believe any is an All-Big 12 level player or even future starter on an NCAA Tournament caliber team.

Excellent summary of past and present Prohm player issues. The other MAIN issue with Prohm is of course his weak coaching ability. This is most obvious in the effort his teams give on defense and rebounding. In my opinion, player buy-in is marginal, lack of discipline on both ends of the floor. Also, I know it is fun to talk about ISU players in the NBA, I too like to follow their success, but it is not the job of head coach to put players in the NBA. He job is to WIN games and develop a winning program, which of course Prohm is doing.

 

[CyCrazy]

Just not a fan of Medved after the way things went down at Drake.

This

 

[CyBobby]

People that continue to blame ISU's terrible 2020/21 basketball team on the early departures of Wigginton, Lard, Halliburton and Horton-Tucker need to stop that false narrative for a few reasons:

• If a coach recruits ELITE talent they are going to leave early and the head coach knows that.
  • When Wigginton came to ISU from Oak Hill, his stated goal was to be the first NBA player from Novia Scotia. He came to ISU very open to being a one-and-done player.
  • I don't recall Horton-Tucker being as open about being a one-and-done player. But based on his jumping after one year, seems to me that was a strong consideration for Horton-Tucker (and his family, handlers, etc.) before he ever stepped foot on the Iowa State campus. It's not like THT had promises to be a lottery pick after an inconsistent freshman year at ISU. I would be highly surprised if THT kept his dreams and plans secret from Coach Prohm and his staff during the recruitment process.
  • Halliburton jumping after his sophomore year would not have been a consideration when Halliburton was recruiting and signed by ISU. But after playing on the USA National Team during the summer of 2019, he was projected as a lottery pick. So midway through the 2019/20 recruiting cycle the ISU coaching staff were well aware there was a VERY HIGH likelihood they would lose Halliburton after his sophomore year.
• If a coach recruits guys with baggage coming during their HS career, then there is a high probability they leave early. Lard was a very talented post player, but also a high risk recruit. Sometimes recruiting risks payoff with guys like Royce White, other times they don't like Lard. Nothing new, Larry Eustachy's teams fell off after Tinsley because he had a number of talented players wash-out (Chris Alexander) or never show up (Jerome Harper).
• Basketball isn't like football where a turnaround is a 3-4 year process. In basketball a coach can turn a program around quickly because it only takes 2-3 really good players to have a top 25 program. Fred Hoiberg did it in 2 years. Beard at Tech retooled his roster a couple years ago by bringing in something like 10 new players in 1 off-season.
• Lastly and most importantly, ISU isn't winless in Big12 play because of the four players mentioned at the beginning of this post. ISU is winless because of the recruiting misses over the last 4 recruiting cycles: Lewis, Griffin, Conditt, Anderson, Leech and Grill. I will give Jackson, Walker, Dubar and Blackwell too-soon-to-tell grades. But to be honest, so far I don't believe any is an All-Big 12 level player or even future starter on an NCAA Tournament caliber team.

"ISU is WINLESS because of the recruiting misses over the last 4 recruiting cycles:" I AGREE

 

[Statefan10]

I was impressed in a variety of ways on Saturday and am actually excited to watch us play tonight against an average TCU team.

On Saturday our guys fought their a***** off and actually looked competent. Now, there were some areas we were poor at (like 2 pt. shooting), but there were a lot of those that were actually good looks and some that should've been called for fouls. Which brings me to my next criticism which would be aggressiveness. Outside of Solomon and Bolton, we don't have guys that like to take it to the rack. JCL and Johnson are far too in love with the mid-range jumper and Conditt honestly and truly might be the worst big man in P5 basketball. There were 3 separate times Conditt got the ball on a mismatch down low and instead of going through the guys chest towards the rim, he'd do a hook shot and fade away from the basket. It's embarrassing.

BUT let's not dwell on those negatives. We shot the ball well from beyond the arc and although we made some tough ones and should not expect to consistently make those, we moved the ball incredibly well. I truly had to do a double take on one possession and I also laughed when I saw our guys swing the ball around the perimeter and make the extra pass for a wide open three pointer. We ended with 14 assists, which accounted for almost half the total made shots we had. We also ended with 10 turnovers, which is 5 less turnovers than usual. Something else we did well was rebound on the offensive end. We had 10 offensive rebounds and a few of those ended up as made 3 pointers for the good guys.

It was a fun and entertaining game to watch and that's now two games in a row where we didn't look like a 2-11 team. Wins will start to happen if you continue to play like that and I think we can scratch one out tonight. These guys deserve some success after the year they've had.

 

[bustamoveisu]

I was impressed in a variety of ways on Saturday and am actually excited to watch us play tonight against an average TCU team.

On Saturday our guys fought their a***** off and actually looked competent. Now, there were some areas we were poor at (like 2 pt. shooting), but there were a lot of those that were actually good looks and some that should've been called for fouls. Which brings me to my next criticism which would be aggressiveness. Outside of Solomon and Bolton, we don't have guys that like to take it to the rack. JCL and Johnson are far too in love with the mid-range jumper and Conditt honestly and truly might be the worst big man in P5 basketball. There were 3 separate times Conditt got the ball on a mismatch down low and instead of going through the guys chest towards the rim, he'd do a hook shot and fade away from the basket. It's embarrassing.

BUT let's not dwell on those negatives. We shot the ball well from beyond the arc and although we made some tough ones and should not expect to consistently make those, we moved the ball incredibly well. I truly had to do a double take on one possession and I also laughed when I saw our guys swing the ball around the perimeter and make the extra pass for a wide open three pointer. We ended with 14 assists, which accounted for almost half the total made shots we had. We also ended with 10 turnovers, which is 5 less turnovers than usual. Something else we did well was rebound on the offensive end. We had 10 offensive rebounds and a few of those ended up as made 3 pointers for the good guys.

It was a fun and entertaining game to watch and that's now two games in a row where we didn't look like a 2-11 team. Wins will start to happen if you continue to play like that and I think we can scratch one out tonight. These guys deserve some success after the year they've had.

Steve, I know CMC just got a bump, but please don't come on the message board to plea for an extension.

 

[Statefan10]

Steve, I know CMC just got a bump, but please don't come on the message board to plea for an extension.

LULZ for you thinking I'm Steve. God forbid I mention some good things and want our guys to do well. I've made it quite clear where I stand with CSP.

 

[CycloneErik]

LULZ for you thinking I'm Steve. God forbid I mention some good things and want our guys to do well. I've made it quite clear where I stand with CSP.

I didn't see Saturday because of work, but it sounded like we played well.
And I can't imagine it's unclear where I stand, but two good games out of two is a step up.

 

[MeowingCows]

I didn't see Saturday because of work, but it sounded like we played well.
And I can't imagine it's unclear where I stand, but two good games out of two is a step up.

You can kind of see some potential around the last few games, some guys are starting to put it together. Obviously it's way too late now to matter much, but that's better than never.