ISU and PAC12 Attendance and merger idea

[Wally86]

Long term it would seem the conference bottom dwellers would not do so well in bigger conferences. More in conference games and fewer patsy game’s means more losses and more difficult recruiting. Are there really going to be more than 4 relevant teams per conference regardless of conference size? OuT is going to be crying all the way to the bank. Being a national brand requires winning and championships.

 

[isucy86]

We will see 12 P5 games before a 13th game is added.

We‘ll see a semi final to conference championships before that too.

That’s not even mentioning expanding the playoffs past 4.

If there are conference semi final games, a 13th game will be added at the same time.

People tend to forget that the Big10 schedule included a +1 game last season the weekend of the Big10 Championship game.

With a conference semi-final game, if it is OK for 4 teams to play 13, should be OK for the other 12.

Again Greed Will Rule.

 

[CascadeClone]

If there are conference semi final games, a 13th game will be added at the same time.

People tend to forget that the Big10 schedule included a +1 game last season the weekend of the Big10 Championship game.

With a conference semi-final game, if it is OK for 4 teams to play 13, should be OK for the other 12.

I was thinking if the Pac grabbed 6 of the Irate8 (no Bay or WV), they could have three 6 team divisions, do a 4 team CCG playoff in (Vegas of course) with a wildcard.

So you would play your 5 division mates, 2 each from the other 2 divisions for 9 conf games. Then the week of the semi-final, you get a bonus game for 10 conf games total. The bonus game would be someone you hadn't yet, probably you plan out like everyone plays that week and then sub around for the missing 4 CCG teams. You'd generate more $$ from the semifinals, plus lock in 10 conference games, which is more inventory for the P12 network. All about the Benjamins, but it is something Pac12 could do to increase revenue. Only 2 OOC games though.

No, I am not saying this will happen, or even that its a good idea, just an interesting thought that came to mind.

 

[Win5002]

Its all speculation of course, and I still think USC , UCLA, OR& UW have to say no to the B1G first or the B1G say no to them.

But if the B1G expansion doesn't occur with USC & friends I see more speculation from people all over about ESPN placing everyone so things can begin in 2022 or 2023 and allowing OU/UT to avoid exit fees, and ESPN lawsuits and damage to their image.

I didn't think the value of the remaining B12 schools would make the ACC & PAC add them. But they need money and if ESPN will add to their contracts, I doubt they say no. The other factor is ESPN doesn't have to really come up with all the increased revenue themselves they just have to get each conference paid through their conference network. Of course the PAC needs to turn their network over to ESPN but it has been an absolute failure.

If the ACC adds Baylor & TCU and can get ACC Network carried at in conference footprint rate that goes a long ways in paying for their addition. It also takes away the poison pill of adding two religious schools to the PAC. I think WVU has to go to the ACC with them. Does the ACC take a 4th? I guess Mediacom just signed a new deal with the ACC Network in the last week too. I saw on another message board that would even go a long ways towards paying a slot for ISU.

Then if the PAC turns over the network to ESPN that facilitates extra revenue for the PAC that ESPN really doesn't have to fully come up with out of their coffers. The PAC also gets extra inventory in another time slot but it also gives more teams to spread out the number of late night time starts(which get ready for if ISU goes to the PAC) but its better than being left behind.

I don't know if going to the ACC or PAC would be better for ISU if this happened.

 

[CyBobby]

Round trip flights from Des Moines to Seattle ~$200

SIGN ME UP!!

 

[CyBobby]

Kansas probably has a higher % of “no shows” than other attendance as they require purchase of football tickets in order to get basketball tickets. They sell 18,000 football season tickets to people who want to go to basketball and may not even attend the football games

Why would anybody in their right mind esp those people who live in the grate state of Kansas ....WANT TO EVER ATTEND A KU FOOTBALL PROGRAM ALONG WITH ANOTHER 8 OR 9 THOUSAND FANS!!

I AM WAITING FOR AN ANSWER WITH BAITED BREATH!!

 

[isucy86]

Its all speculation of course, and I still think USC , UCLA, OR& UW have to say no to the B1G first or the B1G say no to them.

But if the B1G expansion doesn't occur with USC & friends I see more speculation from people all over about ESPN placing everyone so things can begin in 2022 or 2023 and allowing OU/UT to avoid exit fees, and ESPN lawsuits and damage to their image.

I didn't think the value of the remaining B12 schools would make the ACC & PAC add them. But they need money and if ESPN will add to their contracts, I doubt they say no. The other factor is ESPN doesn't have to really come up with all the increased revenue themselves they just have to get each conference paid through their conference network. Of course the PAC needs to turn their network over to ESPN but it has been an absolute failure.

If the ACC adds Baylor & TCU and can get ACC Network carried at in conference footprint rate that goes a long ways in paying for their addition. It also takes away the poison pill of adding two religious schools to the PAC. I think WVU has to go to the ACC with them. Does the ACC take a 4th? I guess Mediacom just signed a new deal with the ACC Network in the last week too. I saw on another message board that would even go a long ways towards paying a slot for ISU.

Then if the PAC turns over the network to ESPN that facilitates extra revenue for the PAC that ESPN really doesn't have to fully come up with out of their coffers. The PAC also gets extra inventory in another time slot but it also gives more teams to spread out the number of late night time starts(which get ready for if ISU goes to the PAC) but its better than being left behind.

I don't know if going to the ACC or PAC would be better for ISU if this happened.

Could happen that ESPN is part of the new Pac12 TV Contract.

My take is ESPN worked in concert with the SEC to bring OU and Texas into the SEC to allow ESPN to get out of their Longhorn Network deal and use their Big12 $ to increase their investment in the SEC. IMO they will do the same with monies they had invested during last media rights contracts with Big10 and Pac12 to increase payouts to ACC.

So the ESPN is all in on ACC & SEC. SEC for FB and ACC for hoops.

That leaves FOX to go all in with the Big 10. So the big question- does FOX want to televise Pac12 or do they leave that to Amazon, Netflix, CBS, etc. CBS has deal with MWC through 2026, so maybe CBS tries to brand itself as "Home of West Coast Football".

 

[RustShack]

Does CBS get involved after ESPN rigged Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC and outbidding CBS? Does Fox make some moves after ESPN planned to move Big12 teams to the AAC where they’d still have said teams, but at a much lower cost?

Then yeah, the big streamers with even more money, do they get involved?

 

[Win5002]

Could happen that ESPN is part of the new Pac12 TV Contract.

My take is ESPN worked in concert with the SEC to bring OU and Texas into the SEC to allow ESPN to get out of their Longhorn Network deal and use their Big12 $ to increase their investment in the SEC. IMO they will do the same with monies they had invested during last media rights contracts with Big10 and Pac12 to increase payouts to ACC.

So the ESPN is all in on ACC & SEC. SEC for FB and ACC for hoops.

That leaves FOX to go all in with the Big 10. So the big question- does FOX want to televise Pac12 or do they leave that to Amazon, Netflix, CBS, etc. CBS has deal with MWC through 2026, so maybe CBS tries to brand itself as "Home of West Coast Football".

I could see ESPN being willing to do the PAC Network going forward. The PAC probably foolishly rejected going with ESPN. Maybe if FOX wants the PAC Network they sign with FOX instead but ESPN is the mouthpiece for CFB so if ESPN is close they may want to take that deal.

A successfully marketed network, is a way for those networks to essentially shift the cost of bumping those tv revenue contract increases.

 

[t-noah]

The Pac12 TV deal with Fox & ESPN is up in 2024. Is there a Pac12 conference without a TV deal that is satisfactory to USC, UCLA, Oregon or Washington? The Pac12 is in the same position as the Big12 without OU & Texas if a couple of the above 4 decide to pursue greener pastures.

If it means keeping the Pac12 alive by booting out Washington State, Oregon State and any other low value media properties, then I could see it happening. Also, the Big12 was only 10 teams. So even by dropping OSU & WSU and being the Pac10 again- there is more revenue per school.

The new Pac12 Commissioner might be able to get more value out of the Pac12 Network by partnering with another media player like FOX, Amazon Prime or Netflix.

If USC or any school were to pursue being an independent, scheduling would be the biggest hurdle. But I doubt the West Coast or Mountain West Conferences would be closed to adding USC in all but football. Being in the West Coast conference hasn't hurt Gonzaga recruiting for Men's basketball. The path for MBB, WBB and Olympic sports to earn bids to NCAA Championship is not blocked by being in a non-P5 conference.

Also UCS is a private university. So if they have the ability to earn $100M or more by being an independent (vs. half that in the Pac12) they would definitely consider it.

They would just join the big ten as is expected instead of going independent. Get 80mil from the new big ten deal and not have to worry about any realignment or media deals ever again.

I agree if the Big10 is willing to take at least 4-6 Pac12 schools. Then it is a no brainer for USC to join Big10. It may not take the sports media rights to be 100% accretive because of academic considerations. aka If Stanford is interested in joining Big10, they are in! Even if Stanford is below the top schools in sport media rights value.

I'm only halfway thru page 4 of this thread, and it's getting extremely depressing. I know you two guys are only 'messengers' and as George "W" might say, just 'theorigating', but can I say this without getting personal? I hate you guys!! College football is ruined.

I can't read anymore. For now anyway.

A huge benefit of ESPN convincing OuT to leave the Big 12 is that it clearly establishes to any CFB blue blood brand that media execs view them as individual properties and want to treat them as such. If there is a big gap between what the SEC earns compared to everyone else, it will be easy for the TV guys to exploit using the play book they used here in the Big 12.

Once the only way to keep conferences together becomes offering the better brands bigger shares of the spoils, Katie bar the door. It will get ugly. BTDT.

Sad but true.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

I could see ESPN being willing to do the PAC Network going forward. The PAC probably foolishly rejected going with ESPN. Maybe if FOX wants the PAC Network they sign with FOX instead but ESPN is the mouthpiece for CFB so if ESPN is close they may want to take that deal.

A successfully marketed network, is a way for those networks to essentially shift the cost of bumping those tv revenue contract increases.

I doubt that ESPN wants to buy into another network when they already have the ACC and SEC, so that leaves it up to Fox. Both the Big 10 and Pac 12 tv contracts come up in the next couple of years, they along with Fox are going to have to decide what is the best direction for all involved to take on the SEC.

Is it breaking up the Pac 12 and moving 4 to 6 of the better brands to the Big 10.

Expanding both league with the left over Big 12 teams.

I would suspect that is going to be a major part of the talks between the two conferences and Fox.

What we as ISU has to do is be patient and keep winning on the field and packing the stands, if we do both of those things there is no doubt we will one of the schools that land in another P5 conference. Being an AAU schools is a assets which cannot be ignored.

Adding G5 schools from the AAC is at the bottom of the pile, and the last thing that anyone should want, the money is just not there compared to what we are getting now, and in the end, will hurt us more than help us. That is the nuclear option that destroys ISU.

 

[sj4]

Here are some numbers I crunched concerning attendance.

We would rank 8th in attendance in a 16 team Big 10
We would rank 2nd in attendance in a 16 team PAC 12.

We rank 21st nationwide in football attendance . Iowa is 20th. We out-attend 16 of the current 26 teams in the Big ten and Pac 12.

Versus big ten teams:

10% more than Purdue
45% more than Indiana
45% more than Illinois
58% more than Maryland
59% more than Northwestern
99% more than Rutgers (read twice as many)

Versus Pac 12 teams

11% more than Oregon
21% more than Arizona State
21% more than Colorado
51% more than Arizona
61% more than Stanford
28% more than Utah
36% more than UCLA
40% more than California
84% more than Oregon State
And 109% more than Washington State


So can it be assumed that Iowa State has an equivalent percentage more fans than these? If so then Iowa States streaming value is more valuable than all of them.

And let's say you're starting the Big ten from scratch. Can someone make a case that Northwestern by itself is somehow much more valuable than Iowa State is? Yeah they're in the Chicago market but nobody cares. In other words Chicagoinites aren't watching. Rutgers? Same

Since cable isn’t as big a deal now and since streaming is it would seem that the number of fans a team has is the more important thing these days.

Also...Iowa State is 3rd in national women’s basketball attendance. Iowa is 10th. They would be 1st in the big 10. And ahead of Iowa as they would be 2nd.

Iowa State is 15th in national mens basketball attendance. Iowa is 23rd. They would be 6th in the big 10. Iowa would be 8th.

 

[BigJCy]

 

[Trice]

Gulp

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Gulp

Ol Stewart Mandel really, I mean really thinks very little of the Big 12 and any of the remaining teams. Go read some of the things he says on the Athletic if you doubt it.

 

[Trice]

Ol Stewart Mandel really, I mean really thinks very little of the Big 12 and any of the remaining teams. Go read some of the things he says on the Athletic if you doubt it.

It's most of them, if we're being honest. Within moments of the OU/UT news breaking a few weeks ago, it was 2011 all over again...just endless contempt and mockery. It's one thing to report frankly on the bleak outlook for these schools but it crosses over into grave-dancing and doom porn.

 

[Legend12]

Here are some numbers I crunched concerning attendance.

We would rank 8th in attendance in a 16 team Big 10
We would rank 2nd in attendance in a 16 team PAC 12.

We rank 21st nationwide in football attendance . Iowa is 20th. We out-attend 16 of the current 26 teams in the Big ten and Pac 12.

Versus big ten teams:

10% more than Purdue
45% more than Indiana
45% more than Illinois
58% more than Maryland
59% more than Northwestern
99% more than Rutgers (read twice as many)

Versus Pac 12 teams

11% more than Oregon
21% more than Arizona State
21% more than Colorado
51% more than Arizona
61% more than Stanford
28% more than Utah
36% more than UCLA
40% more than California
84% more than Oregon State
And 109% more than Washington State


So can it be assumed that Iowa State has an equivalent percentage more fans than these? If so then Iowa States streaming value is more valuable than all of them.

And let's say you're starting the Big ten from scratch. Can someone make a case that Northwestern by itself is somehow much more valuable than Iowa State is? Yeah they're in the Chicago market but nobody cares. In other words Chicagoinites aren't watching. Rutgers? Same

Since cable isn’t as big a deal now and since streaming is it would seem that the number of fans a team has is the more important thing these days.

Also...Iowa State is 3rd in national women’s basketball attendance. Iowa is 10th. They would be 1st in the big 10. And ahead of Iowa as they would be 2nd.

Iowa State is 15th in national mens basketball attendance. Iowa is 23rd. They would be 6th in the big 10. Iowa would be 8th.

Now do the same breakdown and look into the cost of tickets at each venue, including seat licensing fees that are required for each.

 

[BigJCy]

It's most of them, if we're being honest. Within moments of the OU/UT news breaking a few weeks ago, it was 2011 all over again...just endless contempt and mockery. It's one thing to report frankly on the bleak outlook for these schools but it crosses over into grave-dancing and doom porn.

Yep, most of them like the chaos and clicks they get out of this. They couldn't care less what it will do to the remaining 8 schools Athletic Departments.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Now do the same breakdown and look into the cost of tickets at each venue, including seat licensing fees that are required for each.

Here you go, I only did the Big 10 schools and used my tickets in the endzone as a base price. I sit in section 23, no donation required and the tickets are $399 a seat.

Similar tickets from the big 10 schools

Purdue $175
Illinois $144
Indiana $318
Maryland $349
NW $200
Rutgers $305

ISU $399.

Comparable seat at Kinnick would cost $485, no donation required in the South endzone.

All seats were in the endzone or as close to it as the team sold, the only one that required a donation was Rutgers of $25 dollars. This is the all end price per ticket at each stadium according to the team website.

 

[Cyclones1969]

Here you go, I only did the Big 10 schools and used my tickets in the endzone as a base price. I sit in section 23, no donation required and the tickets are $399 a seat.

Similar tickets from the big 10 schools

Purdue $175
Illinois $144
Indiana $318
Maryland $349
NW $200
Rutgers $305

ISU $399.

All seats were in the endzone or as close to it as the team sold, the only one that required a donation was Rutgers of $25 dollars. This is the all end price per ticket at each stadium according to the team website.

I don’t think that worked out like he thought it would