Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

Is it better to have 20 MM of TV money, be 9-3 and get 25MM of donations, or get 28MM of TV money, be 4-8 and get 15MM of donations? I agree that you have to weigh everything and see what makes the most sense long term and not panic.

We don't need to do anything today.

If the B1G wants to go to 16 or 18 or 20 they will decide who to poach. It's unlikely that anyone from the PAC 12 is going to jump to the BIG XII first. They will come if THEIR bigs get poached by the Sec or B1G. That's when we have to decide what to do.

I haven't heard a lot about the ACC but if the B1G goes to 16, they will likely want to go to 16 too. That's where I see WVU or KU maybe being a problem.

 

[Al_4_State]

I heard they’re taking Colorado with them

Then Iowa State is in the Pac 12.

But I kinda don't believe you.

 

[Al_4_State]

I probably just need to get used to it. Byu interests me, as well as UCF football as long as they are top 25. Just need to gear myself up more for Houston and Cincinnati

Really looking forward to Cincy. Houston is the only real "blah" one for me, and that's mostly because I'm sick of Texas schools.

 

[Cyclones1969]

Yeah, hammer option 1 all day. That’s also growing the brand and fanbase

how could we do that with this current coaching staff? Are you saying the competition will be so terrible that even Tom Manning could win as OC?

And you’re so right, I see Boise state paraphernalia everywhere I go here in Texas.

wow

 

[WhoISthis]

Where did you hear that from?

Heard that KU has interest in joining the BIG?

Officially speaking we won’t hear until they’ve been unofficially accepted.

Unofficially, hearing of their interest in an invite won’t stop until they’ve been officially rejected (which won’t happen) or they end up in the SEC.

My bet is KU is part of the Pac12 side of the BIG, along with CU, unless the SEC makes a power play to get a head start building their basketball inventory.

 

[WhoISthis]

how could we do that with this current coaching staff? Are you saying the competition will be so terrible that even Tom Manning could win as OC?

And you’re so right, I see Boise state paraphernalia everywhere I go here in Texas.

wow

You need to recheck which of his two choices have a higher budget. And we can win with a lot of coaches. CMC isn’t a savant or savior.

Wow, you are suggesting- 1.) that boise st hasn’t grown and improved their brand 2.) that it would improve more if chronically 4-8 with less budget?

Lmao, you never disappoint

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

I could be completely off base here, but I think the PAC 12 screwed themselves when they passed on expansion.

If THEY had taken UCin, UCF, UMem & UH we would be in trouble. (with only 8 teams and 1 good prospect)
If they had taken TT, OSU, KSU, TCU we would be dead.

Now the PAC is under the gun and if they lose CU or USC/OU to the B1G they don't have any quality teams to fill the gaps. We took most of the good & marginal teams.

 

[BCClone]

I could be completely off base here, but I think the PAC 12 screwed themselves when they passed on expansion.

If THEY had taken UCin, UCF, UMem & UH we would be in trouble. (with only 8 teams and 1 good prospect)
If they had taken TT, OSU, KSU, TCU we would be dead.

Now the PAC is under the gun and if they lose CU or USC/OU to the B1G they don't have any quality teams to fill the gaps. We took most of the good & marginal teams.

Expansion isn't over. Just letting the dust settle so they can see clearer.

 

[KnappShack]

Expansion isn't over. Just letting the dust settle so they can see clearer.

Maybe expansion isn't the word now.

Maybe it's consolidation. Consolidation of the remaining schools not in the SEC or B1G influence.

In other words....the destruction of college football

 

[WhoISthis]

We don't need to do anything today.

If the B1G wants to go to 16 or 18 or 20 they will decide who to poach. It's unlikely that anyone from the PAC 12 is going to jump to the BIG XII first. They will come if THEIR bigs get poached by the Sec or B1G. That's when we have to decide what to do.

I haven't heard a lot about the ACC but if the B1G goes to 16, they will likely want to go to 16 too. That's where I see WVU or KU maybe being a problem.

The ACC is in a jam.
Due to how they’re GOR/TV deal are, it’s nearly impossible to add WVU or KU and not lose revenue.

Plus, it is tough to add when you have programs ready for a SEC invite and there are not clear revenue boosters (see Big 12).
The ACC will be split up.

There was a chance at a fairly equitable P3 world. That started to fade when UT tanked in 2010 and couldn’t get Clemson/FSU to join, and was finished when not figuring out a way to merge the best of the Pac12 and Big 12 despite expiring GORs. We’re going to have a north/south Cold War with good drama, maybe first a fission the NCAA by the SEC. how many from the other 3 are included is the question

 

[Win5002]

Whether Az and ASU are available will depend on how many go to the BIG. Obviously Oregon st and WSU would be the first two left out. I think Utah and one of the AZ schools next, based on thinking you need all 4 California schools to get 1, and the BIG salivating over Stanford and Berkeley being BIG brands. Academics don’t matter until you’re talking elite academic brands

Since we don’t have a conference network, taking rivalries works a lot better for the Big 12. We need matchups people are interested in. Intrastate can limit that, but AZ/ASU is better than most games of off-brand matchups, and both would pull better nationally against the rest of the conference than Memphis or Boise.

Some say no Pac12 teams will leave, and it’s going to be a P2, followed by Big12 (with some ACC) and Pac12. I don’t see how USC and Oregon do not eventually jump, although an easy auto to the playoffs may be worth the $40 million hit. They won’t need the conference branding to have good NLI.

I think the B1G looked at expansion from the PAC and had a few problems. If they took 6, I think the B1G needed it to be the right 6. That obviously included USC, OR. & UW and probably UCLA. There was rumors all 4 California schools wanted to move together. I think the B1G wanted maybe 1 northern California school at most and another state like Arizona or Colorado. It might have been close whether they could even make the right 6 work financially.

It sure seems like the B1G is going to wait for the ACC or see if there is a way for the ACC to get around its GOR's. I think NC may now be willing to break the ACC up if they are going to earn 40M less a year on tv than the B1G & SEC. The top 6-8 brands are going to want to find a way out if ESPN doesn't voluntarily improve the contract. That's a huge amount of money over 10-15 years for schools like NC, VA., FSU, Clemson and 2-4 others. If ESPN is willing to pay the ACC the same with backfilling of other schools like the remaining 8 B12 or even sending remaining ACC schools to the B12/PAC 12 does that solve the GOR?

The fight will be over NC. The SEC will never let the B1G get into Florida with FSU or Clemson for that fact. They want to own the deep south for recruiting. I think the academic side of NC wants the B1G and the athletics may want the SEC. I think the B1G may accept Duke if it takes that to get NC, but I'm not sure the SEC will. I'm sure the B1G is offering NC, Va. & Duke. They may offer Ga. Tech because it is in a talent rich state for football recruits but Georgia owns that state in terms of fans. I don't know if a B1G affiliation even helps that.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

I would be careful to just assume that the PAC 12 is a better option than a reconfigured Big 12 even if it loses another team or two. Don't get me wrong, I won't want to remain if we have anymore Hateful 8 defections, but let's see how the TV money actually stacks up before we pray for a PAC 12 invite.

Reminds me of the last time the Big 12 expanded after A&M and Mizzou were going to drop us to 8 schools. Louisville and West Virginia both wanted in badly. Kentucky politicians and Papa John were making promises to the conference. We went with WVU to pair with TCU.

Not long after, the B1G poached Maryland from the ACC and they backfilled with Louisville.

Now both Louisville and WVU would much rather be in the ACC than the Big 12.

A similar thing could happen to a school that jumps to the Pac-12 only to see USC/UCLA/Oregon leave the conference shortly thereafter. Could end up worse off than the schools over which they won the Pac-12 “promotion.”

 

[Cyclones1969]

You need to recheckout which of his two choices have a higher budget. And we can win with a lot of coaches. CMC isn’t a savant or savior.

Wow, you are suggesting- 1.) that boise st hasn’t grown and improved their brand 2.) that it would improve more if chronically 4-8 with less budget?

Lmao, you never disappoint

Imagine thinking this

you’re right, the long successful history at Iowa State certainly proves that Campbell certainly hasn’t done very much.

if Boise were truly relevant they would have already left the mt west. People know them as the team that beat Oklahoma.

next you’re going to tell us Loyola basketball is a National brand because they went to the final 4 a few years ago

 

[SCNCY]

Really looking forward to Cincy. Houston is the only real "blah" one for me, and that's mostly because I'm sick of Texas schools.

Same, now that they are at a P5 conference, I fully expect them trying to compete with Texas and Texas A&M in a **** measuring contest.

 

[WhoISthis]

Maybe expansion isn't the word now.

Maybe it's consolidation. Consolidation of the remaining schools not in the SEC or B1G influence.

In other words....the destruction of college football

Absolutely. It’s been coming. We’ve all have talked another the super 64.

That was before SEC hegemony. And UT sucking and not wielding their power. Them joining the SEC opposed to acting like a true kingmaker and building the Big 12, reduced the number.

That’s huge in short term for the networks. Is there any wonder espn was all over the move? 3 to 4 super conferences totaling 64 is more expensive.

I think the BIG may be idyllic enough to try and preserve the Pac12 by adding a Pac12 side to their network. They can allow the Pac12 survive mostly in tact, saving some semblance of value and history in the Rose Bowl, while adding the elite academic brands.

The only thing they give up is the opportunity cost of making more if they only added a few Pac12 or ACC teams, but the travel would suck, and I don’t think you can get just one NC school, so there’s redundancy there.

it Wouldn’t surprise me if the Big 12 loses KU to big 10 (cross matchup with MU) but ends up with one of the Arizona schools and/or Utah, (SDSU over Boise because of this) plus leftover ACC like Louisville (maybe BIG for the IU rivalry and cross matchup with UK), Pitt (maybe SEC with cross matchup with PSU), Miami, GT (unlikely BIG, but maybe).

Either way, the big 8 sticking together is good, it basically guarantees it’s Oregon St/WSU/wake/Syracuse/BC that are either getting left out or are satellites

 

[WhoISthis]

Imagine thinking this

you’re right, the long successful history at Iowa State certainly proves that Campbell certainly hasn’t done very much.

if Boise were truly relevant they would have already left the mt west. People know them as the team that beat Oklahoma.

next you’re going to tell us Loyola basketball is a National brand because they went to the final 4 a few years ago

It seems you’re not reading.

There’s been an incredibly small sample of coaches at Iowa st, even less when you consider what’s happened 40+years ago only has small residual value. Yes, I’d be concerned if Iowa St College of 15k and no fans were what we still are. Sorry, but people don’t fill the lots because of two games against OuT.

Do you agree boise is MORE relevant now than before they started winning? Do you agree they’d be less relevant having gone 4-8? Do you agree 45 million is more than 43 million? If you don’t answer these questions I’ll have to assume you’re too dumb to continue to worthy of my time.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

Same, now that they are at a P5 conference, I fully expect them trying to compete with Texas and Texas A&M in a **** measuring contest.

Is that word "foot"?

 

[WhoISthis]

I think the B1G looked at expansion from the PAC and had a few problems. If they took 6, I think the B1G needed it to be the right 6. That obviously included USC, OR. & UW and probably UCLA. There was rumors all 4 California schools wanted to move together. I think the B1G wanted maybe 1 northern California school at most and another state like Arizona or Colorado. It might have been close whether they could even make the right 6 work financially.

It sure seems like the B1G is going to wait for the ACC or see if there is a way for the ACC to get around its GOR's. I think NC may now be willing to break the ACC up if they are going to earn 40M less a year on tv than the B1G & SEC. The top 6-8 brands are going to want to find a way out if ESPN doesn't voluntarily improve the contract. That's a huge amount of money over 10-15 years for schools like NC, VA., FSU, Clemson and 2-4 others. If ESPN is willing to pay the ACC the same with backfilling of other schools like the remaining 8 B12 or even sending remaining ACC schools to the B12/PAC 12 does that solve the GOR?

The fight will be over NC. The SEC will never let the B1G get into Florida with FSU or Clemson for that fact. They want to own the deep south for recruiting. I think the academic side of NC wants the B1G and the athletics may want the SEC. I think the B1G may accept Duke if it takes that to get NC, but I'm not sure the SEC will. I'm sure the B1G is offering NC, Va. & Duke. They may offer Ga. Tech because it is in a talent rich state for football recruits but Georgia owns that state in terms of fans. I don't know if a B1G affiliation even helps that.

I don’t think anything was decided, other than avoiding prisoners dilemma mistakes.

Unequal revenue sharing solves the number of additions issue, and would be a win-win imo. An opportunity cost for the BIG, but one they can afford and may be willing to give up to add the academic elite plus persevere regionalism/history and avoid schedule/travel issues. My guess is the Pac12 side rolled into the big 10 network could get to 50 million. USC may want equal but their alternative is the SEC on an island or staying put

Plus, if they want UNC, UVa, but need to get NCSt and Duke, there’s some similar redundancy and opportunity cost to the ACC side.

 

[Cyclones1969]

It seems you’re not reading.

There’s been an incredibly small sample of coaches at Iowa st, even less when you consider what’s happened 40+years ago only has small residual value. Yes, I’d be concerned if Iowa St College of 15k and no fans were what we still are. Sorry, but people don’t fill the lots because of two games against OuT.

Do you agree boise is MORE relevant now than before they started winning? Do you agree they’d be less relevant having gone 4-8? Do you agree 45 million is more than 43 million? If you don’t answer these questions I’ll have to assume you’re too dumb to continue to worthy of my time.

Well 45 is always more than 43.

Boise is relevant because people still remember they beat Oklahoma

just like Iowa State is more relevant because we have won 32 games the last 4 years with wins against Oklahoma and Texas than they were since the 70’s

Of course that has nothing to do with the current staff. But no one gave a **** about Iowa State football before the previous 4 years.

 

[surly]

It's tough to make the case right now. K-State's games against Nevada and at oSu are both relegated to ESPN Plus. Maybe ESPN is trying too hard, IDK?