John Deere strike imminent?

[AuH2O]

I don't know any Firestone workers but I'm just going to make a wild guess that they are a lot different than Deere workers. A few decades ago, my wife had to go to firestone to explain benefits, which happened to be during a strike. She got called a scab c*** as she drove through the entrance. Pretty classy.

I do think UAW is probably has their stuff together a little better than the USWA (who represented Firestone), and are probably better at dealing with big companies and not going scorched earth. It could also be just a difference in workforce, but I think the UAW probably is pretty involved and wanting to not turn this into a **** show.

On the flip side, I've experienced union drives by the Teamsters in two different states at two different companies, and without exception they were pushing for a **** show, to put it in the most generous way possible. In both cases I was leaving each company so I didn't care what happened, but they were pretty easily the most vile garbage I've ever come across in my career. Flat out lying to workers saying they had a deal worked out at $X per hour and Y benefits, harassment, threats against people, their family members including children by name and address, you name it.

These workers have incredible leverage right now, why not use it? When the employers have leverage they sure do. It seems like a healthy exercise in markets.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

We are a very long time away from robots replacing jobs like this. I can only speak about car plants, but almost anything that could be completely automated has been and there are still 800 bodies on the line. The cost to retrofit or build from scratch a car plant would e astronomical and that would be if all of the technology even existed.

Those 800 bodies used to be 2500. But yea automation won't be 100% and **** those 1700.

Over 5 million jobs were lost in manufacturing since 2000 and 88% was due to automation.

Manufacturing is just the beginning too. Cashiers are next. Travel agents are gonna lose 11% of their jobs in the next few years due to automation.

But yea turning a wrench for a liveable is always gonna be around...

 

[BCClone]

Correction -- it used to be at John Deere, you could retire after 30 years of service.

My dad worked from age 22 @ Deere, 30 years straight and retired at 52. He's now pushing 80 and has the best health insurance I've ever seen (pays $0 premiums, and has an annual out of pocket max of $1,000), a modest-yet-fair pension, dental coverage, and a small company paid life insurance policy.

Meanwhile, I'm currently working full-time for a large corporation and my benefits pale in comparison to this man who hasn't worked a minute for them in 25+ years. I will be lucky to retire at 65.

Dad also doesn't understand how the modern world works, and in his mind getting a job hasn't changed since 1970. "Why don't you just go to your boss and ask him for more time off work?"

The pension part/s have changed and life expectancy has played into that. When they were hot, life expectancy was like 65. Now that it’s increased by 20 years, it’s hard to find them correctly. One big reason for 401ks, along with several other reasons.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

The problem I see with vocational studies disappearing in high school is that kids who are skilled and gifted in these areas don't have an opportunity to discover their gifts.

I recently learned that a young man I know opened a wood working shop; turns out he is an incredibly skilled wood worker. He was doing electronics/tech for a few years (because he was pushed there in HS), and not really happy. I don't know the full story, but somehow he got hooked up with a wood worker, and discovered his wood working gifts.

I'm a mechanical engineer. STEM in high school is fine and all, but I have some real problems with the way it is being pushed/implemented, because it often comes at the expense of other important things...like vocational arts.

So you're blaming the dude for not discovering his skills until he became an adult? You can lament all you want but why are we blaming the children in the room for doing what they're told?

 

[mramseyISU]

As someone on the inside here's my opinion on it all.
The UAW is going on strike, the rank and file came into the negotiations looking for a fight, allegedly they came out swinging asking for a 30% or 40% pay raise. If that happens I think based on the first contract getting rejected by 90% of the rank and file it's going to be a long one.

I think the UAW is in a pretty strong position with profits from the last year, the price of corn right now and because of parts shortages deliveries are way behind.

I also think the UAW can go **** themselves after covering for one of their members assaulting my wife when she was fresh out of college as an ME.

As for the right to repair thing any one of you guys can go down to your dealer, buy the consumer version of service advisor and you can do 80% of what a dealer mechanic can do as far as finding codes, clearing them and recalibrating new parts.

 

[SCNCY]

So you're blaming the dude for not discovering his skills until he became an adult? You can lament all you want but why are we blaming the children in the room for doing what they're told?

I think he is blaming the system that forced the person down a path that they didn't really want to go because they were unaware of their woodworking skills (and passion) because it was never offered in school.

 

[BMWallace]

Those 800 bodies used to be 2500. But yea automation won't be 100% and **** those 1700.

Over 5 million jobs were lost in manufacturing since 2000 and 88% was due to automation.

Manufacturing is just the beginning too. Cashiers are next. Travel agents are gonna lose 11% of their jobs in the next few years due to automation.

But yea turning a wrench for a liveable is always gonna be around...

This video explains really well how automation is coming for a lot more jobs than people realize, and it isn't so much the robots, as it is AI that will make huge chucks of jobs obsolete.

 

[ISUCyclones2015]

I think he is blaming the system that forced the person down a path that they didn't really want to go because they were unaware of their woodworking skills (and passion) because it was never offered in school.

Ah yes, "the system". Ignore who created it though

 

[DeereClone]

Or removing hard paying, American jobs from JD. These farmers wanna put those technicians out of a job who have spent years learning their craft of diagnostic analysis and repair

LOL

No one wants their local mechanic to lose their job. We just want to be able to diagnose the issue and make a decision on whether or not it’s a repair we can handle ourselves vs having the dealership/mechanic work on. Your statement is like a home owner fixing their sink on their own because they want their plumber to go out of business.

 

[SCNCY]

Ah yes, "the system". Ignore who created it though

I am not ignoring who created it, people in my parents generation created the system of defunding these kinds of programs in schools. I graduated high school 15 years ago, and was fortunate to have a well funded district that offered various classes in autos, woodworking, home economics, etc.

 

[khardbored]

That same group completely sold out all future workers with the 1997 contract when they took most of those post retirement benefits away.

Could be, I'm not sure. Dad retired before 97.

I did have a younger acquaintance at Deere who said there was a tension between "old contract" and "new contract" guys.

I do vaguely remember the strike in the 80's (or maybe it was early 90's?), dad still got paid a little. It was tight, but we were OK. He still got partial pay during a temporary layoff, too.

That's another way my dad can't relate at all to the current working world -- he doesn't understand the fear that I'm not "guaranteed" anything. I can be fired, laid off, etc without any pay or benefits at pretty much any time.

 

[BCClone]

LOL

No one wants their local mechanic to lose their job. We just want to be able to diagnose the issue and make a decision on whether or not it’s a repair we can handle ourselves vs having the dealership/mechanic work on. Your statement is like a home owner fixing their sink on their own because they want their plumber to go out of business.

Mechanics are stretched thin also. Many times I will call and they will step me through things to diagnose a few things to save them time before the mechanic hits. I think we all appreciate them. I drop of donuts/cookies after the season as a thank you. One time a couple 12 packs.

 

[swiacy]

It appears to me this debate is around bringing diagnostic code into the public domain. While I disagree with that specifically, it does warrant a more open interface to diagnostic results. That'd give the owner the option of best method for resolution.

Here are a couple of examples of what has developed:

Field equipment has become so technologically advanced that the manufacturers do not want novices (farmers - me) attempting to fix something and screwing it up worse and causing extra work for the trained service tech. So, they have built override protection into the system which causes the machine to shut down if an error is detected. The error may be diminished oil pressure in a hydraulic line, excessive engine heat or failure in the DEF recycling system. At which point the engine shuts off. The operator ( Boomer Farmer - me) then calls an 800 number which is a tech specialist who may be located in Chicago and he asks for the code that is being displayed on the computer screen. If possible, he then gives the operator the sequence of numbers to be inserted back into the software to restart the engine and if not he notifies a service tech to come to the field and do a diagnostic test. They also have automatic notifications built into the machines that notify service techs of problems and a report will show up in your cab or a phone call will be made to you directly. Most of the time these shutdowns are extremely minor and frustrating because they are an easy fix for the operator. Such as blowing debris out of the radiator, adding fluid or changing a DEF filter. But not always. The machines are very sophisticated technologically, very expensive and seldom have mechanical issues but if they do, a trained specialist needs to be turning the wrench not an untrained farmer. Bottom line is that I think the debate of whether or not the farmer has access to codes has moved past that point, unless he has access to a maverick ex JD technician or one that works at night or on weekends.

 

[mramseyISU]

LOL

No one wants their local mechanic to lose their job. We just want to be able to diagnose the issue and make a decision on whether or not it’s a repair we can handle ourselves vs having the dealership/mechanic work on. Your statement is like a home owner fixing their sink on their own because they want their plumber to go out of business.

Then go to your dealer and buy service advisor you can do everything you want to with that.

 

[jbhtexas]

Are skills for an assembly line job useful when automation is just gonna snatch those jobs right out of existence?

Well, if there are assembly line jobs available, then it seems that having skills to do those jobs would be a good thing. Automation isn't snatching up every last assembly line job anytime soon.

Should we blame the boomer generation then for taking those classes or studies out of school or blame the children that grew up in that system? If you wanted us to have those skills why remove funding for them? Why remove the teachers? Why change curriculum requirements?

My answer to why the curriculum was changed away from teaching practical life skills in HS would most certainly send the thread to the cave. But, you are asking great questions. Now, ask them to the people in charge of our education system that have been affecting these changes over the last 30 years.

Why not, I don't know, stop relying on the school system to babysit your kids and actually teach them things as a parent.

I'm not asking anybody to babysit my kids. The public school system taxes me, and it is perfectly reasonable for me to expect them to teach my kids things that will make them successful after high school. If they can't (or more likely won't), I'll gladly take the money back...except that I can't...

Failure after failure is attributed to these millennial or Zoomer kids when they were doing what every other kid does, listen to the adults. You failed them. Congratulations you played yourself.

I agree. In many respects we did fail them. Things are changing though...

 

[Cloneon]

Here are a couple of examples of what has developed:

Field equipment has become so technologically advanced that the manufacturers do not want novices (farmers - me) attempting to fix something and screwing it up worse and causing extra work for the trained service tech. So, they have built override protection into the system which causes the machine to shut down if an error is detected. The error may be diminished oil pressure in a hydraulic line, excessive engine heat or failure in the DEF recycling system. At which point the engine shuts off. The operator ( Boomer Farmer - me) then calls an 800 number which is a tech specialist who may be located in Chicago and he asks for the code that is being displayed on the computer screen. If possible, he then gives the operator the sequence of numbers to be inserted back into the software to restart the engine and if not he notifies a service tech to come to the field and do a diagnostic test. They also have automatic notifications built into the machines that notify service techs of problems and a report will show up in your cab or a phone call will be made to you directly. Most of the time these shutdowns are extremely minor and frustrating because they are an easy fix for the operator. Such as blowing debris out of the radiator, adding fluid or changing a DEF filter. But not always. The machines are very sophisticated technologically, very expensive and seldom have mechanical issues but if they do, a trained specialist needs to be turning the wrench not an untrained farmer. Bottom line is that I think the debate of whether or not the farmer has access to codes has moved past that point, unless he has access to a maverick ex JD technician or one that works at night or on weekends.

Thanks for that explanation. It seems the debate surrounds how high the bar is currently. The logical solution would be an insurance approach. Buy a 'level' of insurance against self repair. That approach should appease both owner and seller concerns. Life is a continuous risk/reward series of events. This is just another one.

 

[jbhtexas]

So you're blaming the dude for not discovering his skills until he became an adult? You can lament all you want but why are we blaming the children in the room for doing what they're told?

No...not at all.

 

[jbhtexas]

In the post above, I mentioned that things are changing. I need to give a shout-out to the school district I live in. They have been very progressive in bringing back vocational arts, and the district actually has a technical high school.

The kids get an opportunity to take short electives in early high school years to gauge interest in the courses taught at the technical high school.

The link below gives an idea of the courses taught

Programs of Study - Ben Barber Innovation Academy

Programs of Study - Ben Barber Innovation Academy

bbcta.mansfieldisd.org

 

[SCNCY]

In the post above, I mentioned that things are changing. I need to give a shout-out to the school district I live in. They have been very progressive in bringing back vocational arts, and the district actually has a technical high school.

The kids get an opportunity to take short electives in early high school years to gauge interest in the courses taught at the technical high school.

The link below gives an idea of the courses taught

Programs of Study - Ben Barber Innovation Academy

Programs of Study - Ben Barber Innovation Academy

bbcta.mansfieldisd.org

Looking at the video, I wish my school had a more construction type of class knowing what I know now. Just being able to do some things around the house like applying drywall mud at joints and simple construction type of stuff would pay dividends now owning a house. Of course I still do these things, but I am not proficient at it if I would have taken a basic construction class. Of course, me 15 years ago probably wouldn't have taken it, but I did take Autos 1 & 2 in high school.

 

[cyfan21]

The issue is nobody has direct access to the software embedded in the computers. It's no different than saying you want to "fix" your car by rewriting the fuel system controls. They are able to buy and replace as many parts as they want.

However getting to the diagnostics to know what parts to buy is another story. You can't just go down to Autozone in your combine and have them read the codes. It's not just Deere, but many large equipment manufacturers.

In the semi world, we will sell dealer service diagnostic tools to some big fleets that do their own service/repairs (e.g. UPS, FedEx, TransAm). But those customers are buying thousands of trucks a year and have the leverage to get that. The single truck owner/operator - like a farmer - doesn't do enough business to have that leverage.

It's sad but true. I've talked with plenty of sales and service individuals in the logistics world and they say if you don't put in an order for a new truck or trailer now that you won't get one next year.

It's too bad we are reliant on China for all the chips and electronic parts. Things would be so much easier if it was all mechanical or manufactured in the US.

End of rant.