Texas forums/CF agree: new big 12 is 2nd tier G5 (edit)

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I mean it’s just reality. We don’t have a P5 conference long term. It will turn into P4 and if you are not in one of the bigger 4 you are pretty much out of it.

The needle will never move to P4 until the B1G, SEC, ACC, and PAC are all sitting at 16 teams. Everyone is in a tizzy about what our status will be moving forward but ya'll are making all of these assumption based off a 4 team playoff. When all of this GOR dust settles in a few years the format will be either 8 or 12, whichever returns the most $$$$. The whole P4/P5 conversation is really pointless right now.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Bridget the Midget.

Would

 

[JM4CY]

I think the actual quality will be fine, the hard part will be getting the respect from the media that we deserve (assuming the new conference executes).

It’s why we need an expanded playoff to make sure we have a crack at other big boys when it really counts.

 

[CYCLNST8]

Would

Ha ha! She was hot in Total Recall.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I got you.
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The problem with the Texas football program is that since Mac left, no coach has been able to change the culture within that program. That athletic department spoils the football players rotten and they created the problem. Say what you want about Strong, Herman, and Sark but the culture of that program can't be fixed until you take away the keys to the convertible and hand them a bike. IMO Texas is getting really damn close to hitting a point where I don't think you can even correct the problem.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

The perception of the ACC and Pac12 is very bad and not better than the Big 12. That’s why they don’t get paid **** and horrible ratings

At one time they had a better perception in terms of stability, but that’s increasingly no longer true

I don't think so. The media has paraded around with a very mediocre Oregon team propped up its shoulders all season. Close wins vs bad teams. Not un-similar to OU, who is undefeated and in a P5 but on the outside looking in at the playoff right now.

The talking heads also have really tried to push for the ACC upstarts this year --Pitt, Wake-- in lieu of Clemson's worst season in a decade. Those teams would not be fighting for a Big 12 championship right now IMO.

The Big 12 is the butt of everyone's joke.

 

[usedcarguy]

People really overstate the strength of the Big 12 going forward. KU is one of the worst in d1 college football, Tech and TCU are going to be pretty poor going forward, West Virginia is not great, Houston is having a great year but they haven’t played anyone and still got dominated by a bad Tech team, Cincinnati won’t always be top 10, UCF is looking pretty average lately. We can pretend like all of that is so much better than the PAC 12 and ACC, but in reality it really isn’t.

With the new schedules, if a team from the Pac 12, ACC, and Big 12 go undefeated, who do you think it more likely to make the playoff and be higher ranked? Heck, Oregon is getting more respect than Oklahoma this year and they even have 1 loss. That respect isn’t going to be helped when Texas and OU leave.

Also, it’s hard not to believe that our recruiting is only going to get tougher. Our selling point of you get to play OU and Texas every year goes away. That is going to hurt some.

That used to be our selling point back in the days when we had nothing else to sell. Not anymore. Our selling point now is that we win. Everyone wants to be a winner. If they didn't, schools like TCU, Cincy, and UCF would never have risen to national prominence.

ESPN can plug their favorites, but at the end of the day, with an expanded playoff it's not going to matter. At least they're talking about us now. I remember the days when we didn't exist.

 

[AuH2O]

I don't think so. The media has paraded around with a very mediocre Oregon team propped up its shoulders all season. Close wins vs bad teams. Not un-similar to OU, who is undefeated and in a P5 but on the outside looking in at the playoff right now.

The talking heads also have really tried to push for the ACC upstarts this year --Pitt, Wake-- in lieu of Clemson's worst season in a decade. Those teams would not be fighting for a Big 12 championship right now IMO.

The Big 12 is the butt of everyone's joke.

OU hasn't beaten anybody. They have largely looked like crap against a terrible schedule. And yes it is terrible. Texas is the best team they've played all year, maybe WVU?

Is it better to have a good win (@OSU) and a bad loss (Stanford) or neither of each like OU? OUs non-con was hot garbage and they have played only the bad portion of a completely stratified Big 12. OU will get their respect if/when they earn it. They will get their chances the next three weeks.

LOL-talking heads pushing for Wake and Pitt. Pitt is barely ranked and coming into this week Wake was ranked behind OU despite probably looking better against a better schedule. They've been talked about a fair amount because they have been total surprises. Not because anyone thinks they are great. Clearly the media doesn't think either team is that great considering their rankings.

 

[AuH2O]

The problem with the Texas football program is that since Mac left, no coach has been able to change the culture within that program. That athletic department spoils the football players rotten and they created the problem. Say what you want about Strong, Herman, and Sark but the culture of that program can't be fixed until you take away the keys to the convertible and hand them a bike. IMO Texas is getting really damn close to hitting a point where I don't think you can even correct the problem.

I think for a while they went pendulum - they thought they were getting too soft under Mack and brought in a hard-liner in Strong. That blew up, so they went back to player-friendly Herman. Sark was just a desperate reach.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

OU hasn't beaten anybody. They have largely looked like crap against a terrible schedule. And yes it is terrible. Texas is the best team they've played all year, maybe WVU?

Is it better to have a good win (@OSU) and a bad loss (Stanford) or neither of each like OU? OUs non-con was hot garbage and they have played only the bad portion of a completely stratified Big 12. OU will get their respect if/when they earn it. They will get their chances the next three weeks.

LOL-talking heads pushing for Wake and Pitt. Pitt is barely ranked and coming into this week Wake was ranked behind OU despite probably looking better against a better schedule. They've been talked about a fair amount because they have been total surprises. Not because anyone thinks they are great. Clearly the media doesn't think either team is that great considering their rankings.

I get your point on OU not playing anyone, really I do, and I agree. But if it were Ohio State or even Oregon with the same resume, the playoff committee would have them in currently.

The ACC teams I reference were getting a lot of love until recent losses. The ACC will not be represented in the playoff, but only because their top teams have now lost.

 

[ZRF]

We'll be in a worse conference, and they're about to lose even more games.

No they won't. SEC is so massively overrated it's not even funny (even though it's better than the Big 12).

No where else do you get more credit for losses and more clout for beating a ranked in-conference opponent who was only ranked because they beat an in-conference opponent who was ranked but no longer is because it turns out they were a paper tiger.

The reality is it's EXTREMELY tough to win on the road in any conference, and all but the super elite usually slip up at least once. But while other teams/conferences get penalized for those loses the SEC doesn't, because the victor gets too much credit (boosting their ranking) and the loser gets lauded for playing tough in a quality "loss". It's such a ******* joke.

I think Texas will struggle year one (much harder to scout all new opponents), but will have equal or better success than they've had in the Big 12 over the last 10-15 years. I'd put money on it.

 

[JohnnyFive]

“Second tier conference” do Texas fans really think they make a difference with their performance in the conference? Texas football has been nothing but average to below average since Colt McCoy. Them leaving only hurts this conference financially, nothing else. The B12 will be the premier basketball conference and Cincinnati, BYU and UCF have all had better football programs than Texas (all but UCF have had better basketball too) the last 10 years. I personally am looking forward to seeing them be bottom feeders and never make it out of the dungeon in the SEC and their boards will all be saying “we should’ve never left the B12”, “we could be the premier program in the B12 right now”. They are delusional, almost as much as TOE fans.

Texas is a out to be a third-tier program in the SEC.

 

[jbhtexas]

I think the actual quality will be fine, the hard part will be getting the respect from the media that we deserve (assuming the new conference executes).

Correct, the quality is there. Now, the next thing that is needed for the new BIg 12 is a media partner that is actually interested in promoting the Big 12. As opposed to the media partners that the Big 12 has now, who are interested in promoting everything else except the Big 12.

If Bowlsby could lead the conference to that media partner...one that can pay and will actively promote the Big 12 like ESPN promotes the SEC...he should get a statue at every conference school.

 

[jcyclonee]

That would be spot on if it was a comedy. Who would Kansas be?

John Bobbitt

 

[Bestaluckcy]

Correct, the quality is there. Now, the next thing that is needed for the new BIg 12 is a media partner that is actually interested in promoting the Big 12. As opposed to the media partners that the Big 12 has now, who are interested in promoting everything else except the Big 12.

If Bowlsby could lead the conference to that media partner...one that can pay and will actively promote the Big 12 like ESPN promotes the SEC...he should get a statue at every conference school.

Sorry JB but BB is going to the country club where he belongs. No one is building a statue to Bob B.

 

[jcyclonee]

I got you.
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Landomatic's avatar is a bit distracting.

 

[AuH2O]

I get your point on OU not playing anyone, really I do, and I agree. But if it were Ohio State or even Oregon with the same resume, the playoff committee would have them in currently.

The ACC teams I reference were getting a lot of love until recent losses. The ACC will not be represented in the playoff, but only because their top teams have now lost.

You think the committee has a bias against OU in favor of Oregon? OU has always gotten the nod in the playoff.
And WF wasn’t going to leapfrog OU if they both went undefeated. WF gets a ranked team next week then maybe gets one in the CCG. OU has OSU, Bay, and ISU plus one of those again if they win out. Committee already had OU better than WF and has a much tougher road the rest of the way.

OU has accomplished zero. It’s easy to say they would crank it up, but pick pretty much any week and take OUs performance and see if you think they would beat Ohio State or Oregon. So far OU is undefeated only because they have played bad teams. That could change, but so far OU is like a G5 resume. The Big 12 is solid but there are clearly four good teams, and the rest aren’t good. They have only played the bottom. Nebraska is a bottom feeder in a terrible division. Tulane is a G5 bottom feeder.

 

[20eyes]

Correct, the quality is there. Now, the next thing that is needed for the new BIg 12 is a media partner that is actually interested in promoting the Big 12. As opposed to the media partners that the Big 12 has now, who are interested in promoting everything else except the Big 12.

If Bowlsby could lead the conference to that media partner...one that can pay and will actively promote the Big 12 like ESPN promotes the SEC...he should get a statue at every conference school.

This is a really scary if...because if we can't keep the same relative distance between the Big 12 and the Pac, ACC, B1G, and SEC we'll be residing in P5 conference in name only.

 

[jcyclonee]

People keep saying this stuff and ignoring the fact that 5/12 of the new big 12 teams are currently ranked and 1/14 PAC teams are ranked. OU isn't getting enough respect because they have played a weak schedule and have escaped with close wins against terrible teams. Tulane, Nebraska, Kansas are all terrible and they barely won. Their best win is what - a 3 point win vs. WVU in Norman? They have yet to play 2, 3 and 4 in the league. If they win those games they will have earned respect and will get it. Right now they were just Wake Forest - good record without any good wins. OU hasn't earned respect yet. The only games they have won convincingly are against two teams that fired their coaches mid-season.

On the other hand, Oregon went into the Horseshoe and ran it down OSU's throat. And by the way no one else in the PAC is ranked and only Utah is getting votes. People don't respect the PAC. I'm sure the new Big 12 will be underappreciated, but the way voters are ranking these teams and viewers are watching, it suggests that may not be the case.

Nebraska's revenge against Oklahoma is that they are so bad that they are keeping Oklahoma out of the top of the CFP. Maybe the Sooners should have accepted Scott Frost's offer of cancelling the game.

 

[AuH2O]

This is a really scary if...because if we can't keep the same relative distance between the Big 12 and the Pac, ACC, B1G, and SEC we'll be residing in P5 conference in name only.

Big 12 teams other than OU, UT and Okie St have spent the entirety of the CFB arms race at a huge financial disparity to the Big 10 and SEC. Despite that many of these schools have managed to catch up in facilities and on the field performance. Until we start seeing schools directly paying players the marginal value of an additional dollar in college football is very low in terms of on field performance.