Is it time to move on from Manning??

[jbhtexas]

Both sides of the ball?

3rd and long seemed pretty automatic for the D to give up the first down.

Offense too: 3rd and manageable was tough to come by.

4th on defense, but quite a big difference in % between 1st and 4th...

Big 12 Conference

The official 2021 Football cumulative statistics for Big 12 Conference

big12sports.com

Opponent 3rd Down Conversions

Index	Team	G	CONV	ATT	PCT
1	Oklahoma State	9	26	127	20.5
2	Baylor	9	38	118	32.2
3	West Virginia	9	39	109	35.8
4	Iowa State	9	46	115	40.0
5	Oklahoma	9	48	120	40.0
6	Kansas State	9	52	124	41.9
7	Texas	9	58	132	43.9
8	TCU	9	51	109	46.8
9	Texas Tech	9	60	118	50.8
10	Kansas	9	57	103	55.3

 

[Allikat]

Bottom line: The two schools that are in the Big 12 championship won the trenches. Baylor and OSU are first or second in most sacks and fewest sacks allowed.

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2021/11/30/the-big-12-by-the-numbers-2021-regular-season/

Our offensive stats are fine. Manning is fine. Just keep focusing on recruiting high level talent for the trenches, find ways to develop 3.5 star skill players and we will be a team to deal with every year.

We're in good shape if we consider a 7-5 team with a win over a potential CFP team a down year. Ask Nebraska fans if they would take our performance.

 

[WhoISthis]

Bottom line: The two schools that are in the Big 12 championship won the trenches. Baylor and OSU are first or second in most sacks and fewest sacks allowed.

https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2021/11/30/the-big-12-by-the-numbers-2021-regular-season/

Our offensive stats are fine. Manning is fine. Just keep focusing on recruiting high level talent for the trenches, find ways to develop 3.5 star skill players and we will be a team to deal with every year.

We're in good shape if we consider a 7-5 team with a win over a potential CFP team a down year. Ask Nebraska fans if they would take our performance.

Can this staff build and develop a top OL?

 

[Scruff]

It's hard to call good plays when the o-line struggles as much as it has. I have no explanation for why this wasn't the best line we've ever had with all the guys we had return.

 

[isucy86]

Is Manning the problem?

The reality is ISU's 5 losses fall just as much or more on the defense (and special teams) if one is looking to blame a football unit.

The offense underperformed (based on points scored) in the UNI, Iowa and OSU games. But the Clones WON two of those games. The Iowa and OSU defenses are ELITE. Top 5 in P5.

If there is a side of the ball that requires scrutiny, it is the defense. In our 5 losses they gave up over 30 ppg. That is backing out defensive and special team scores.

I prefer that the staff does a deep dive on what went wrong and how to improve. Than looking to blame specific people. If that reveals a personnel issue, then make changes.

But I don't see Manning being THE issue.

 

[jbhtexas]

Is Manning the problem?

The reality is ISU's 5 losses fall just as much or more on the defense (and special teams) if one is looking to blame a football unit.

The offense underperformed (based on points scored) in the UNI, Iowa and OSU games. But the Clones WON two of those games. The Iowa and OSU defenses are ELITE. Top 5 in P5.

If there is a side of the ball that requires scrutiny, it is the defense. In our 5 losses they gave up over 30 ppg. That is backing out defensive and special team scores.

I prefer that the staff does a deep dive on what went wrong and how to improve. Than looking to blame specific people. If that reveals a personnel issue, then make changes.

But I don't see Manning being THE issue.

The average 30 ppg given up in the losses is deceiving. I really don't see much defense fault in the Iowa and BU losses. In the BU game the defense gave up 24 points, and 3 of those came because a BU returned punt gave them starting position at the ISU 16. In the Iowa game, the defense gave up 20 points, and 3 of those came after an interception gave Iowa starting position at the ISU 18.

 

[isucy86]

The average 30 ppg given up in the losses is deceiving. I really don't see much defense fault in the Iowa and BU losses. In the BU game the defense gave up 24 points, and 3 of those came because a BU returned punt gave them starting position at the ISU 16. In the Iowa game, the defense gave up 20 points, and 3 of those came after an interception gave Iowa starting position at the ISU 18.

WE GAVE UP LIKE 33 PPG IN OUR LOSSES. THE 30 PPG IS GIVING OUR DEFENSE THE BENEFIT OF OFFENSE TURNOVERS AND GLARING SPECIAL TEAMS MISTAKES.

I don't think anyone is questioning our defense in the Iowa, Baylor or OU games.

But what about the Texas Tech and West Virginia? Our defense was ugly. Just like our offense was ugly against Iowa and UNI.

But if we are going to evaluate what went wrong with the 2021 season, it falls 100% on the TT/WVU games. ISU's defense gave up 78 points in those 2 games. OSU's defense gave up 3 (the following week in both cases). Baylor's defense gave up 44 and OU's defense gave up 34.

I just find it strange to call for Mannings job, but some people are unwilling to question our bigger lapses on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Lineup]

WE GAVE UP LIKE 33 PPG IN OUR LOSSES. THE 30 PPG IS GIVING OUR DEFENSE THE BENEFIT OF OFFENSE TURNOVERS AND GLARING SPECIAL TEAMS MISTAKES.

I don't think anyone is questioning our defense in the Iowa, Baylor or OU games.

But what about the Texas Tech and West Virginia? Our defense was ugly. Just like our offense was ugly against Iowa and UNI.

But if we are going to evaluate what went wrong with the 2021 season, it falls 100% on the TT/WVU games. ISU's defense gave up 78 points in those 2 games. OSU's defense gave up 3 (the following week in both cases). Baylor's defense gave up 44 and OU's defense gave up 34.

I just find it strange to call for Mannings job, but some people are unwilling to question our bigger lapses on the defensive side of the ball.

why do you think defense was bad, well they are on the field 90% of the time offense three and out

 

[CNECloneFan]

why do you think defense was bad, well they are on the field 90% of the time offense three and out

I have often wondered how frustrating it must be for our defense to come up with a big stop, come to the sideline to rest and regroup, only to end up right back on the field 3 quick plays and a punt later.

 

[jsb]

I have often wondered how frustrating it must be for our defense to come up with a big stop, come to the sideline to rest and regroup, only to end up right back on the field 3 quick plays and a punt later.

probably as frustrating as it was for our offense when they scored and the defense gave up a fast TD.

 

[WhoISthis]

Is Manning the problem?

The reality is ISU's 5 losses fall just as much or more on the defense (and special teams) if one is looking to blame a football unit.

The offense underperformed (based on points scored) in the UNI, Iowa and OSU games. But the Clones WON two of those games. The Iowa and OSU defenses are ELITE. Top 5 in P5.

If there is a side of the ball that requires scrutiny, it is the defense. In our 5 losses they gave up over 30 ppg. That is backing out defensive and special team scores.

I prefer that the staff does a deep dive on what went wrong and how to improve. Than looking to blame specific people. If that reveals a personnel issue, then make changes.

But I don't see Manning being THE issue.

False. The Iowa game is not more on the defense. Baylor a wash.
The defense saved us against UNI. When did the offense bail us out?

Look at the previous years too. The offense had wasted a great run by the defense.

There is also the fact it should be easier to hide talent deficiencies on offense. Yet, with generational talent on offense, it’s been the offense that has handicapped.

 

[CNECloneFan]

probably as frustrating as it was for our offense when they scored and the defense gave up a fast TD.

I don't have the numbers, but I'm guessing that the offense has had far more '3 and outs' than the defense has given up quick scores.

 

[isucy86]

I don't have the numbers, but I'm guessing that the offense has had far more '3 and outs' than the defense has given up quick scores.

Not sure if I care how quickly the opposing team scores. That's why TOP can be a misleading stat.

To me it's all about points scored against. That's why Georgia, Okie State and Iowa have such impressive defenses.

I agree the offense didn't always click. But the defense didn't always click either. I can accept that we lost to Iowa, Baylor and OU. I have a tougher time accepting we lost to TT & WVU and gave up 78 points in those 2 games.

Manning's offense needs to be critiqued for our slow starts and inconsistent o-line play.

Equally important is our defense needs to figure out why we gave up 14 ppg at home, but over 30 ppg on the road. We ended up 1-4 in Big12 road games.

 

[alarson]

why do you think defense was bad, well they are on the field 90% of the time offense three and out

I don't think this really is the problem when our defensive problems are particularly in first halves when the defense shouldn't be worn down yet

 

[tolfbfan]

Can this staff build and develop a top OL?

They did at Toledo. Center still playing in NFL.

 

[cygrads]

They did at Toledo. Center still playing in NFL.

Was that Manning coaching the OL?

 

[tolfbfan]

Campbell, then Manning if I remember correctly. Current ISU oline coach was a starter for them, so I am pretty sure he is coaching this line as CMC and Manning want.

 

[CloneGuy8]

Well if they did go away from zone-blocking this year, then they should probably go back to it next year as it seemed to work a lot better.

 

[WhoISthis]

They did at Toledo. Center still playing in NFL.

That’s not a measure of building and developing an OL. Chizik/Rhoads have put OL in the NFL

 

[ripvdub]

Manning is fine when he passes first to open up the tun, not force the ball to Breece when the OL could smooth a silk sheet on a hot date... I would also add in he tried to run inside too much.