Tough day for EIU hoops hopes

[dafarmer]

Their most important player out? Did Johnny Davis just win B1G POY or not? He shot 4-16. Lol

Is it just me or are Hawk takes getting dumber by the season?

No, you are just getting smarter, Hawk fans have always been dumb.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Not disagreeing with you, but Iowa flat out played terrible against Richmond. They would probably win in five games if it was a best of 7. But it wasn’t. It was one game and Iowa crapped the bed.

I didn’t feel that way after the Oregon game last year BTW. Oregon wins that game every time.

Richmond had Iowa frustrated offensively. When teams are being pressured with tight defense even the open looks can be tough to knock down. I get that Iowa didn't play well but lets not pretend Richmond didn't have something to do with it. Spiders vs Spiders was basically Frans worst nightmare.

 

[RezClone]

That was me and that's part of what I was getting at with Iowa hopefully valuing defense more like Iowa State does. Joe had 4 steals vs Purdue and made Ivey incredibly uncomfortable which was only time it happened all game. He played 10 minutes. He's probably Iowa's best defensive guard and all the minutes went to a slow footed guy that gets hot every 3rd to 4th game

I want to expand on that a bit, @GoHawks . I've truly learned a lot about the value of defense this year from getting to see what TJ and Kyle Green have brought game in and game out as opposed some of our more exciting offense based teams of the past. We are all adjusting to it over here, and I don't think it gets talked about enough.

Does it get ugly sometimes? Words don't do it justice. It has been brutal at times. But I can truly say we have only been out of sorts defensively twice. At OU 2nd half and TTU. OU our one mulligan, and nobody was stopping TTU that day..

BUT ON THE FLIPSIDE teams that aren't defensive-oriented have guys that aren't defense first, but they light it up 65-90 percent of the time. However, those 10-35 percent of games when they are off they bring virtually nothing to the table. We've been there too. Two or three off nights at once might be all it takes to derail your entire identity. Over a 30+ game schedule you are just asking for at least a half maybe even full carton of eggs to be laid. Especially at the end with tired legs and bright lights. (See UAB. See Richmond.)

One hope for Iowa is that before this year, I generally thought in order to defend you need athletes. Borderline elite athletes. I humbly admit you don't. I should have known better because of what UNI has done to everyone for years.

You just need adequate athleticism (which shouldn't be a problem for P5 teams), good coaching, good scheme, an emphasis on principles and effort, and above all accountability. Want to know why Tristan Enaruna, a top recruit KU transfer who scored 18 on Iowa, barely played the last month of the season? Because he's late to gaps, doesn't take charges, gets caught ball watching and forgets to box out.

I know that Fran loves his players. That's always been evident to me. I know he's a fiery guy and he yells at them and a lot of other people too. That's evident to everyone. But I'm not sure he holds them truly accountable. His rotations a lot of times seem kind of all over the place and without firm purpose. You got guys giving up layups on inbounds plays, getting beat on effort plays, and tweeting at fans. I kind of used to blame the Iowa program more than Fran. Now I'm starting to think it's the other way around. What do you think?

 

[CyPunch]

Meh. every team that defended Iowa this year made them look pretty pedestrian. I get why everyone was high on Iowa though. They are fun to watch offensively and put up a ton of points but you also have to look at who Iowa put all of those gaudy numbers up against.

No one beat up on bad competition like Iowa this year. They scored 100+ 5 times against Longwood, Alabama St, Western Michigan, Maryland, and Northwestern! Credit to Fran for gaming the system but that inflated their metrics immensely. Resume said 7/8 seed, metrics said 4/5 seed.

 

[Statefan10]

No one beat up on bad competition like Iowa this year. They scored 100+ 5 times against Longwood, Alabama St, Western Michigan, Maryland, and Northwestern! Credit to Fran for gaming the system but that inflated their metrics immensely. Resume said 7/8 seed, metrics said 4/5 seed.

I think Iowa might've deserved the seed they got. 6 would've made a ton of sense too. The run in the Big 10 tournament was obviously the reason for the seeding. There were, however, a few Iowa fans on my Twitter timeline actually upset that they weren't a 4 seed. I mean come on.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

No one beat up on bad competition like Iowa this year. They scored 100+ 5 times against Longwood, Alabama St, Western Michigan, Maryland, and Northwestern! Credit to Fran for gaming the system but that inflated their metrics immensely. Resume said 7/8 seed, metrics said 4/5 seed.

Yeah the committee/NET put WAY too much weight into offensive efficiency. The Big 12 showed this year in rounds 1 and 2 that defensive metrics need to be important too. The B1G and ACC were both very poor defensive leagues this year which leads to inflated efficiency numbers. In Iowa's case you couple that with their embarrassing non con schedule and look out...

 

[Acylum]

I think Iowa might've deserved the seed they got. 6 would've made a ton of sense too. The run in the Big 10 tournament was obviously the reason for the seeding. There were, however, a few Iowa fans on my Twitter timeline actually upset that they weren't a 4 seed. I mean come on.

I thought they’d be a 4 for sure, even before the championship game. Turns out they were actually the lowest 5, and were still overrated at that spot.

 

[Statefan10]

I thought they’d be a 4 for sure, even before the championship game. Turns out they were actually the lowest 5, and were still overrated at that spot.

Iowa was overrated all year long. That's not to say they weren't a good team either because you don't just luck into winning a conference tournament. Their schedule was incredibly light and they took advantage of that.

 

[AuH2O]

Completely agree. Especially needed more JT when we played better teams and scoring in the mid 80's is unlikely. Bohannon is a guy who's mostly going to get you 15 to 20 against bad teams and 5-8points against good ones. Makes sense to have the better defender out there vs the good teams

I used to think this, but now I'm of the opinion that Joe T simply is a fast guy that isn't very good. He will wow you with a drive or steal due to his quickness, but on the whole he just isn't good on either end of the court. Frankly, I'd play Bohannon too. Joe T has the physical tools to be a good defender, but overall he is not. Reminds me a bit of Gabe O whateverhisname was. The guy would send a shot 12 rows deep and people thought he should start because Dingleberry was the biggest eye poking, Carver crowd shushing after scraping a dunk over the rim tool of all time. But in the end Gabe was a big athletic guy that wasn't very good.

Not sure if Perkins can become a PG or if he needs to play off the ball. He had a bad game vs. Richmond, but I think he's a good player. He should play every minute he can handle next year.

 

[GMackey32]

I used to think this, but now I'm of the opinion that Joe T simply is a fast guy that isn't very good. He will wow you with a drive or steal due to his quickness, but on the whole he just isn't good on either end of the court. Frankly, I'd play Bohannon too. Joe T has the physical tools to be a good defender, but overall he is not. Reminds me a bit of Gabe O whateverhisname was. The guy would send a shot 12 rows deep and people thought he should start because Dingleberry was the biggest eye poking, Carver crowd shushing after scraping a dunk over the rim tool of all time. But in the end Gabe was a big athletic guy that wasn't very good.

Not sure if Perkins can become a PG or if he needs to play off the ball. He had a bad game vs. Richmond, but I think he's a good player. He should play every minute he can handle next year.

That seems to be Fran's M.O. Finding athletic guys who have a little bit of skill and hope they can develop into something good or be more athletic than the other team.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I used to think this, but now I'm of the opinion that Joe T simply is a fast guy that isn't very good. He will wow you with a drive or steal due to his quickness, but on the whole he just isn't good on either end of the court. Frankly, I'd play Bohannon too. Joe T has the physical tools to be a good defender, but overall he is not. Reminds me a bit of Gabe O whateverhisname was. The guy would send a shot 12 rows deep and people thought he should start because Dingleberry was the biggest eye poking, Carver crowd shushing after scraping a dunk over the rim tool of all time. But in the end Gabe was a big athletic guy that wasn't very good.

Not sure if Perkins can become a PG or if he needs to play off the ball. He had a bad game vs. Richmond, but I think he's a good player. He should play every minute he can handle next year.

IMO Olaseni would have thrived on a Baylor type team.

 

[chadly82]

Honestly I can’t believe Iowa fans really thought they were that good this year. Iowa State beat their brakes off and they beat northwestern….and two bubble teams before beating a good Purdue team. Purdue was their only ranked opponent win because osu finished the year horribly

 

[RezClone]

Iowa was overrated all year long. That's not to say they weren't a good team either because you don't just luck into winning a conference tournament. Their schedule was incredibly light and they took advantage of that.

That's what give me hope for tomorrow with everyone picking Miami. I was watching a video of someone talking about Miami. They went 14-6 in the ACC and we went 7-11. We are 10 and 11 seeds respectively. That should be flipped, IMO.

They were 4-3 in quad one games which I give them credit for and I think is arguably worthy of justifying them being one seed higher, but to say they played better in conference than ISU (which he did claim) is just ignorant.

The big 12 just does not have a big viewership footprint, especially for basketball. I think that is very evident. The Big 10 and the ACC were just not very good but they seem to get all the casual viewers eyeballs.

 

[AuH2O]

Yeah the committee/NET put WAY too much weight into offensive efficiency. The Big 12 showed this year in rounds 1 and 2 that defensive metrics need to be important too. The B1G and ACC were both very poor defensive leagues this year which leads to inflated efficiency numbers. In Iowa's case you couple that with their embarrassing non con schedule and look out...

Look at who's still standing. Low tempo, good defensive teams. Like I've said before, net efficiency as it is being used favors offensive teams. A high tempo, high scoring game that is competitive is still more likely to have a higher margin of victory (and thus higher PPP differential) than a close and competitive low scoring game with fewer possessions.

They should probably put a cap on the PPP differential in a given game as well to reduce the impact of beating someone by 30 instead of 20. No need to have how early you bring the end of the bench in the game have an impact on important metrics.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Honestly I can’t believe Iowa fans really thought they were that good this year. Iowa State beat their brakes off and they beat northwestern….and two bubble teams before beating a good Purdue team. Purdue was their only ranked opponent win because osu finished the year horribly

And like the rest of the B1G Purdue can score but they are not a good defensive team. The B1G was soft AF this year which is kind of weird. Typically there are some good defensive teams in that league but not this year.

 

[GoHawks]

I want to expand on that a bit, @GoHawks . I've truly learned a lot about the value of defense this year from getting to see what TJ and Kyle Green have brought game in and game out as opposed some of our more exciting offense based teams of the past. We are all adjusting to it over here, and I don't think it gets talked about enough.

Does it get ugly sometimes? Words don't do it justice. It has been brutal at times. But I can truly say we have only been out of sorts defensively twice. At OU 2nd half and TTU. OU our one mulligan, and nobody was stopping TTU that day..

BUT ON THE FLIPSIDE teams that aren't defensive-oriented have guys that aren't defense first, but they light it up 65-90 percent of the time. However, those 10-35 percent of games when they are off they bring virtually nothing to the table. We've been there too. Two or three off nights at once might be all it takes to derail your entire identity. Over a 30+ game schedule you are just asking for at least a half maybe even full carton of eggs to be laid. Especially at the end with tired legs and bright lights. (See UAB. See Richmond.)

One hope for Iowa is that before this year, I generally thought in order to defend you need athletes. Borderline elite athletes. I humbly admit you don't. I should have known better because of what UNI has done to everyone for years.

You just need adequate athleticism (which shouldn't be a problem for P5 teams), good coaching, good scheme, an emphasis on principles and effort, and above all accountability. Want to know why Tristan Enaruna, a top recruit KU transfer who scored 18 on Iowa, barely played the last month of the season? Because he's late to gaps, doesn't take charges, gets caught ball watching and forgets to box out.

I know that Fran loves his players. That's always been evident to me. I know he's a fiery guy and he yells at them and a lot of other people too. That's evident to everyone. But I'm not sure he holds them truly accountable. His rotations a lot of times seem kind of all over the place and without firm purpose. You got guys giving up layups on inbounds plays, getting beat on effort plays, and tweeting at fans. I kind of used to blame the Iowa program more than Fran. Now I'm starting to think it's the other way around. What do you think?

Well I think you've mostly nailed it on the head. Fran's awful defensively. A lot of blame gets placed on recruiting and the slower athletes we tend to recruit and it's a part but just a part. His ideology is centered around outscoring teams in a free flowing paced game he's very similar to Mike D'antoni in that regard. They would rather you give up a layup take the ball out as quick as possible and get to other end than foul the guy and make them hit free throws. That's terrible ideology imo. You lower your margin when you play and coach defense the way he does. You need to be hot every night when you play good teams. I directly attribute Fran's poor record in close games because when you're in close games all the rhythm is taken out lot of fouls, timeouts etc... and he's not great at playing strictly in halfcourt sets. The 2-3 zone we play is an embarrassment to basketball. It's fun to watch when we're winning but its hard to win big with his strategy much like D'antoni

 

[AuH2O]

Well I think you've mostly nailed it on the head. Fran's awful defensively. A lot of blame gets placed on recruiting and the slower athletes we tend to recruit and it's a part but just a part. His ideology is centered around outscoring teams in a free flowing paced game he's very similar to Mike D'antoni in the regard. They would rather you give up a layup take the ball out as quick as possible and get to other end than foul the guy and make them hit free throws. That's terrible ideology imo. You lower your margin when you play and coach defense the way he does. You need to be hot every night when you play good teams. I directly attribute Fran's poor record in close games because when you're in close games all the rhythm is taken out lot of fouls, timeouts etc... and he's not great at playing strictly in halfcourt sets. The 2-3 zone we play is an embarrassment to basketball. It's fun to watch when we're winning but its hard to win big with his strategy much like D'antoni

I think the bigger issue is that style is tough to win with in the tournament. Right or wrong, games have been called really loosely in the tournament for decades. It's way too easy for a team that wants to muck it up for a team that relies on pace and movement. Even if you are elite on offense you can have problems. That's how a Richmond or UAB happen.

 

[GoHawks]

I used to think this, but now I'm of the opinion that Joe T simply is a fast guy that isn't very good. He will wow you with a drive or steal due to his quickness, but on the whole he just isn't good on either end of the court. Frankly, I'd play Bohannon too. Joe T has the physical tools to be a good defender, but overall he is not. Reminds me a bit of Gabe O whateverhisname was. The guy would send a shot 12 rows deep and people thought he should start because Dingleberry was the biggest eye poking, Carver crowd shushing after scraping a dunk over the rim tool of all time. But in the end Gabe was a big athletic guy that wasn't very good.

Not sure if Perkins can become a PG or if he needs to play off the ball. He had a bad game vs. Richmond, but I think he's a good player. He should play every minute he can handle next year.

We haven't had someone defend at the pg position way he did vs Purdue before that against Ohio State in maybe Frans tenure. His help defense against post players is high quality and he fights through screens. We too often don't fight through screens and end up giving the team the matchup they wanted. Sometimes he's too confident defensively and gets out of position by going for a steal that he shouldn't of but I still think he's far and away the best option for us defensively amongst the guards

 

[GoHawks]

I think the bigger issue is that style is tough to win with in the tournament. Right or wrong, games have been called really loosely in the tournament for decades. It's way too easy for a team that wants to muck it up for a team that relies on pace and movement. Even if you are elite on offense you can have problems. That's how a Richmond or UAB happen.

Definitely that's what i meant by "win big". Teams are almost always tight, longer breaks, foreign environments. Most the teams still playing are tough sometimes ugly minded teams. If they score 80 great but 65 is winning a lot of these games currently

 

[BCClone]

That's what give me hope for tomorrow with everyone picking Miami. I was watching a video of someone talking about Miami. They went 14-6 in the ACC and we went 7-11. We are 10 and 11 seeds respectively. That should be flipped, IMO.

They were 4-3 in quad one games which I give them credit for and I think is arguably worthy of justifying them being one seed higher, but to say they played better in conference than ISU (which he did claim) is just ignorant.

The big 12 just does not have a big viewership footprint, especially for basketball. I think that is very evident. The Big 10 and the ACC were just not very good but they seem to get all the casual viewers eyeballs.

Why the 4 new teams should be positive. Stretches our footprint.