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- Thread starter Cytaki
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I might kind of believe your post if you weren't a Florida fan. Because of tradition they have their recruiting class complete before Christmas, while we scramble to get guys up to signing day.
Yup, there are only a handfull of schools with REAL tradition, dating back past the 80's.
Folks, there is a lot that goes into recruiting and, without question, tradition and facilities are very, very important.
Let me ask you a question. If you are a highly recruited high school player and one weekend you come to Ames, Iowa and tour the athletic facilities (albiet much improved over the past few years) and then walk into a 50,000 seat stadium with 5-10,000 empty seats, what are you going to think. Especially if the next weekend, you come to Lincoln, Nebraska and walk through their football complex and see wall after wall of pictures of All Americans, Outland Trophy winners, Heisman Trophy winners, etc., see a top notch indoor facility, a state-of-the-art weight room, not to mention five national championship trophies, and then on Saturday afternoon walk into a stadium with 85,000 red-clad screaming fans. Which way do you think the scales will tip?
I would never say that Ames is the toughest sell of any BCS school, but it certainly would be in the top 10% of that classification. That being said, I have never believed that the key to winning at the BCS conference level is based on bringing in a slew of Four and Five Star players. Dan McCarney never had even Top-50 classes and he found a way to compete. Mangino at Kansas certainly hasn't impressed the recruiting experts and he finds a way to win. It's all about finding players who fit your system while filling existing needs, and then coaching them to be top level competitors.
Let me ask you a question. If you are a highly recruited high school player and one weekend you come to Ames, Iowa and tour the athletic facilities (albiet much improved over the past few years) and then walk into a 50,000 seat stadium with 5-10,000 empty seats, what are you going to think. Especially if the next weekend, you come to Lincoln, Nebraska and walk through their football complex and see wall after wall of pictures of All Americans, Outland Trophy winners, Heisman Trophy winners, etc., see a top notch indoor facility, a state-of-the-art weight room, not to mention five national championship trophies, and then on Saturday afternoon walk into a stadium with 85,000 red-clad screaming fans. Which way do you think the scales will tip?
I would never say that Ames is the toughest sell of any BCS school, but it certainly would be in the top 10% of that classification. That being said, I have never believed that the key to winning at the BCS conference level is based on bringing in a slew of Four and Five Star players. Dan McCarney never had even Top-50 classes and he found a way to compete. Mangino at Kansas certainly hasn't impressed the recruiting experts and he finds a way to win. It's all about finding players who fit your system while filling existing needs, and then coaching them to be top level competitors.
Florida didn't win an legit conference championship untill 1991. That doesn't scream tradition to me... Florida State was an all women's school untill 1947. We had been playing foorball for what, 60 years by then?
My point is, "tradition" has to start somewhere...
Tough cell yes but it has been a few years since we have had 5-10 thousand empty seats, cyclone nation has been doing their part recently to fill Jack Trice
I'd throw Washington St. into the mix as well and yet they've had a pretty good program until late.
When Mangino first came to KU it had to be one of the hardest sells in the country. They had a terrible budget, terrible facilities and losing records. He inherited a team that had only a few D1 players on it and he kicked half them off for discipline reasons. His first year he lost to you guys 45-3 and his only two wins were SW Missouri State and Tulsa. Now KU's budget is around 5th in the conference. They have a brand new football only training and weight room that rivals the NFL. Every year they spend tons updating Memorial (next they have to get rid of that track and lower the field - I hate that track). It would be nice to be located further south and have warmer weather and be closer to the Texas athletes but you have to play with the cards your dealt and Mangino has done a pretty good job of playing those cards. It can be done at ISU with the right coach. You won't have KU's money but you have better fans. KU is so close to KC that they should be sold out months before the season starts, but so many KU fans are spoiled from bball that they expect too much.
I dont buy this. My reason Notre Dame. Look at how bad they have been the last 15 years. Hell, ISU has won more bowl games in that time, yet they still have top recruiting classes every year. What do they have to offer? They play in a small midwest town. They have a fat arrogant coach. I dont think these help them in recruiting. What does help them is tradition, a huge fan base and a TV contract. And in my opinion the tradition leads to the fan base and the fan base(along with them being an independent) leads to the NBC contract.
That being said I think ISU can recruit good players, they just have to work harder to make up for the negatives they have going against them.
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"BCS bowl games and actual stadium renovations must be tough to sell. KU and KSU may be hard sells compared to LA or Miami, but not Ames or the like."
KU and K State were cupcakes well into the late 80's early 90's. They were rarely in bowl games until Glen Mason and Bill Snyder came on the scene, respectively. When Mason left KU there was another period of drought. Lately we've seen that with K State after Snyder left. The point is: they learned to compete after being total dogs. ISU can learn to compete as well.
KU and K State were cupcakes well into the late 80's early 90's. They were rarely in bowl games until Glen Mason and Bill Snyder came on the scene, respectively. When Mason left KU there was another period of drought. Lately we've seen that with K State after Snyder left. The point is: they learned to compete after being total dogs. ISU can learn to compete as well.
Don't sell us short. Don't forget we were 3 brutal OTs and a ridiculous home loss to Baylor away from a perfect regular season a few years ago.
I wouldn't go as far to say we are the toughest BCS sell but instead use a PC category of 'One of Tougher Sells'. These would be programs that might have had some momentary success but due to a combo of tradition and perception are career builders if you turn them around. To me would historically include - Duke, NC State, Virgina, Wake Forest, Indiana, Purdue, Vandy, UCONN (moving up?), ISU (we were close), K State (had a flash), and Washington State.
Programs that traditionally would be a tough sell but at the moment on path to make the turn - Rutgers, Cincy (we should have hired Kelly), MIZZOU, KU, Arizona
Then there are the academic standards of a Northwestern or Stanford that you have to overcome.
I wouldn't go as far to say we are the toughest BCS sell but instead use a PC category of 'One of Tougher Sells'. These would be programs that might have had some momentary success but due to a combo of tradition and perception are career builders if you turn them around. To me would historically include - Duke, NC State, Virgina, Wake Forest, Indiana, Purdue, Vandy, UCONN (moving up?), ISU (we were close), K State (had a flash), and Washington State.
Programs that traditionally would be a tough sell but at the moment on path to make the turn - Rutgers, Cincy (we should have hired Kelly), MIZZOU, KU, Arizona
Then there are the academic standards of a Northwestern or Stanford that you have to overcome.
Sure seems like Syracuse has been a tough sell lately. They have had good tradition in the past but that has been quite a while ago now.
I myself, would at first say, WOW, there aren't many people here. I would then look at the student section and be mildly impressed. I would then watch a game and watch the passion of the fans and players and also be slightly impressed, however, it's nothing that I haven't seen. I would look around at all of the facilities and say, there's not a lot here, but how fancy does it need to be for me to become the best player I can. I would realize not a lot of great football players have come from ISU. I would leave feeling indiffrent. However, on the way home, I would think to myself,"Look at what I can help start. I can be part of something special. I can help get this program on it's feet, plus take up a lot of spotlight in Ames."
That is what I would think. A lot of the things we don't have are things a football team doesn't need to physically become the best they can. Sure, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma etc. have a lot more "things." They have a lot more prestige. That does not in any way mean you can become better there than here. I don't even want to mention the off the field issues. I don't know, but I would imagine there is a lot more trouble to get into at a large school as football player. I hope that ISU sells these things. Sell the things you don't have and get the point across that they don't need those things to be successful. High school kids are generally pretty shallow, and are easily wowed by all of the fancy equipment and things that really don''t matter. If we can make them realize that they can be as good here as there, then we have a chance.
Don't kid yourself, the name "Notre Dame" doesn't mean what it used to high schoolers.
There's no doubt that Notre Dame's prestige has slipped a little bit. But they still have 9 4-stars and they don't have a single juco recruit - all high school players. They have sucked for quite a while and yet they still have a great class coming in. The name must still mean something to some high schoolers. What if they start actually winning some games? Their classes would be back in the top 10 every year. If you look at the top 10 classes right now, they are all well known football schools except UNC. Davis has had a great year recruiting there, but they have great facilities and a very good location in a state with a lot of high school talent (13 of their commits are from NC)
I'm sure knowing that all your games are on National TV is a pretty big selling point, tradition or not...
I'd think the one plus ISU would offer players is the ability to play earlier, to some guys, that means a lot. I know I'd rather play on a mediocre team early on, then work my butt off and be on the sidelines most of the time for my first 2 or 3 years for a top team.
