Housing market

BWRhasnoAC

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I just have to counter the above. Sorry that this is long

I entered college at turn of millennium with zero credits. I graduated in 3.5 years while also doing a full semester internship and I changed my major twice. I was part of the three biggest tuition increases in ISU history (18%, 21%, and 11%?). Not off to the best circumstances.

But, I didn't use student loans to finance a computer, a car, or spring break trips. I knew many who did. I hustled, working five different jobs in that time frame, often two at once. Unfortunately, my wife did make mistakes and graduated with twice the debt of today's average college grad. yet, that was almost twenty years ago so conceivably she was 4-5x the national average. Those great circumstances keep piling up.

We spent eight years in our first two homes, both ended up being sold for a loss. And during that time, we had a child spend over 100 days in the hospital leading to my wife having to quit her job to care for him afterwards. So multiple times again not everything has gone right for me.

Yet, amidst those storms we paid off student loans and vehicles. Her first job, she made $26k as a school teacher and I made $33k. She's just now back to making $26k (subbing) after almost a decade of taking care of our kids. And I will never make $100k in my line of work. But, we chose to live within or below our means and have invested the savings wisely. I should be able to very comfortably retire in my 50s.

Oh, and I was a first generation college grad whose dad died (without life insurance) when I was in middle school and whose mom worked for hourly pay in retail.

Somewhere along the way, I must have gotten lucky right? I've found that the harder I work, the luckier I get.
What is the infatuation with Americans being proud of how much they have to over come? It's fantastic that you made it though adversity but why should we be expecting that hardship for others? 'Look how hard we make our lower class work too get ahead' is a strange flex. Would you wish that upon your children?

I'm not sure what you're countering? That it's possible? Of course it is but there's just as many stories of failure as there are of success.

My parents were both teachers, and my father went back to get his degree when he was 40. I know very well the grind you're referencing. I do appreciate the discussion. I don't mean to make things personal but simple anecdotes of success don't change the fact a massive financial burden was shifted to our generation.
 
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NWICY

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I'm doing fine financially but if you think the average person my age is afforded nearly the same opportunities as their parents you're high. For example my dad as a bar tender bought a house that is now 500k in Chicago at 23. Just a standard bungalow situation. If that's what we've decided the American dream is great I guess. I'll go **** off and live in the middle of nowhere and go line dance at the one bar with the blue hairs.

Go line dancing with the blue hair she'll get sweet on you and next thing you know you'll be either renting ground out for cash or selling it off for a one time cash windfall. ;)
 

madguy30

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Newhall is 20 miles from cedar rapids. There are small towns around every major urban area in Iowa and a 30 minute commute is not bad at all when you are paying $900 less per month on housing

Key word here being Iowa.

Maybe more people should just flock to the state and start building bigger more expensive houses in these tiny towns and we'll see how simple everything gets.
 

clonechemist

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Just saying if you can’t afford to live in a metro, but do so anyway, then ***** about having no money…there are other options.

In all these hypotheticals you’re building, everyone magically knows what the future will hold.

Most recent college grads moving to a metro are doing so *hoping they can make it*, knowing that the jobs they want are there, and the sort of people they hope to befriend and maybe eventually start a family with are also there.

It’s only years later, when careers haven’t magically worked out as hoped, and many have still not formed lasting co-habitating relationships (which provide crucial breaks in housing costs and also provide some income stability if both partners are in turbulent careers), that this looks like a poor choice. For many others, the same choice will look like a good one, with satisfying careers and stable family lives.

Encouraging recent college grads to move to BFE with no job prospects and no meaningful capital available for new businesses outside of ag, is not a winning solution.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Key word here being Iowa.

Maybe more people should just flock to the state and start building bigger more expensive houses in these tiny towns and we'll see how simple everything gets.
I think one key part that keeps being mentioned is the part about building a house. Why does every person need to build a house? Are there no current houses good enough? I appraised houses for several years and there are decent starter homes out there. My son is renting an apartment and his rent is the same as our house payment is. He could have saved 200/month if he lived in Cedar Rapids versus North Liberty with a shorter commute but he felt Cedar Rapids was an old person town. It’s his choice and he is fine financially so it is what it is, but he isn’t even considering building a house.

Why must everyone own a house, let alone build their own?
 

8bitnes

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What is the infatuation with Americans being proud of how much they have to over come? It's fantastic that you made it though adversity but why should we be expecting that hardship for others? 'Look how hard we make our lower class work too get ahead' is a strange flex. Would you wish that upon your children?

I'm not sure what you're countering? That it's possible? Of course it is but there's just as many stories of failure as there are of success.

My parents were both teachers, and my father went back to get his degree when he was 40. I know very well the grind you're referencing. I do appreciate the discussion. I don't mean to make things personal but simple anecdotes of success don't change the fact a massive financial burden was shifted to our generation.
I think everyone faces some degree of adversity but resiliency sets people apart. Some will complain about how student loans are holding them down and they didn't understand what they were signing up for. While others will see the same loan balance and resolve to wipe it out as quickly as possible.

If the goal is home ownership, then reducing debt and therefore monthly payments while simultaneously increasing cash in the bank for a down payment are both necessary. That means doing some grinding and hustling.
I have an enjoyable life and have chosen to not take the pedal completely off the gas because I want to fund retirement and college savings for the kids. I also intend to buy a lake home in northern Minnesota so I continue to get after it. These are choices I make that I don't have to make.

Others are going to choose to live in Chicago or Kansas City for the night life or the culture or to some degree a job opportunity (jobs are everywhere now, unlike 2008). What they pay in rent for that access will continue to hold them back from erasing debt and obtaining home ownership.
 

madguy30

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I think one key part that keeps being mentioned is the part about building a house. Why does every person need to build a house? Are there no current houses good enough? I appraised houses for several years and there are decent starter homes out there. My son is renting an apartment and his rent is the same as our house payment is. He could have saved 200/month if he lived in Cedar Rapids versus North Liberty with a shorter commute but he felt Cedar Rapids was an old person town. It’s his choice and he is fine financially so it is what it is, but he isn’t even considering building a house.

Why must everyone own a house, let alone build their own?

This part I agree with. The obsession with owning a home, etc. is imo just more consumerism and makes people think they need the bigger house with even more rooms etc. which can be unhealthy and just more stressful. Contentment is like a foreign concept. I digress.

My main point is that as far as I know when folks with money start to move to a place, it all gets more expensive. Actually, North Liberty sounds like a good example.

My family and friends in Denver can't talk enough about how expensive Denver and the surrounding area has gotten as it became so much more of a destination. The smaller towns that used to be the spot to go for cheap housing have only become more expensive to live in. At least people can look at the mountains and occasionally wait in traffic to go into them.
 

clonechemist

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This part I agree with. The obsession with owning a home, etc. is imo just more consumerism and makes people think they need the bigger house with even more rooms etc. which can be unhealthy and just more stressful. Contentment is like a foreign concept. I digress.

My main point is that as far as I know when folks with money start to move to a place, it all gets more expensive. Actually, North Liberty sounds like a good example.

My family and friends in Denver can't talk enough about how expensive Denver and the surrounding area has gotten as it became so much more of a destination. The smaller towns that used to be the spot to go for cheap housing have only become more expensive to live in. At least people can look at the mountains and occasionally wait in traffic to go into them.

It may sound like a stretch, but I think ultimately this traces back to increasing inequality and the perception that the middle class is disappearing in America.

When a town gets a reputation as a place where successful people are relocating (and where good jobs are available and being created, partly since successful and talented people are moving there), others will be drawn there and prices will explode.
 
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BWRhasnoAC

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I think everyone faces some degree of adversity but resiliency sets people apart. Some will complain about how student loans are holding them down and they didn't understand what they were signing up for. While others will see the same loan balance and resolve to wipe it out as quickly as possible.

If the goal is home ownership, then reducing debt and therefore monthly payments while simultaneously increasing cash in the bank for a down payment are both necessary. That means doing some grinding and hustling.
I have an enjoyable life and have chosen to not take the pedal completely off the gas because I want to fund retirement and college savings for the kids. I also intend to buy a lake home in northern Minnesota so I continue to get after it. These are choices I make that I don't have to make.

Others are going to choose to live in Chicago or Kansas City for the night life or the culture or to some degree a job opportunity (jobs are everywhere now, unlike 2008). What they pay in rent for that access will continue to hold them back from erasing debt and obtaining home ownership.
Isn't that what this thread is about though? @besserheimerphat in post #1417 posted a tweet with a link to article that goes into this very thing you are touching on in the last paragraph.

I enjoy your civil engagement and understand that all of us are coming from a degree of privilege compared to a lot of less fortunate people but I think we need to have these discussions to keep complacency from setting in and compassion for our fellow man from vanishing. There is little appetite to fix the system politically about the issues we are discussing, particularly student loans. The housing industry is a whole other monster.
 
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8bitnes

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Isn't that what this thread is about though? @besserheimerphat in post #1417 posted a tweet with a link to article that goes into this very thing you are touching on in the last paragraph.

I enjoy your civil engagement and understand that all of us are coming from a degree of privelige compared to a lot of less fortunate people but I think we need to have these discussions to keep complacency from setting in and compassion for our fellow man from vanishing. There is little appetite to fix the system politically about the issues we are discussing, particularly student loans. The housing industry is a whole other monster.

Housing availability is a complete mess ruined by investors who have turned starter homes into single family rentals. Lumber shortage and "cheap" loans the past two years accelerated the the cost of ownership further pushing availability away. Ag could be next with the likes of bill gates buying up land like crazy because it has good investment returns. Somehow, he has vastly spared Iowa so far. One has to think a reset is coming and with that reset should be some opportunities to buy a distressed property at a discount.

I've gotten fortunate in terms of 'good timing' with unloading a house just before the storm of 2008 hit despite taking a loss on it (but it beat paying rent as I built equity). With real estate, timing is pretty dang important. I considered selling in the past year to snatch up the overpriced "value" of my home and could have rented for a year or two and then jumped back in, but the chaos of moving twice on a family of five wasn't worth the potential $50,000+ swing I anticipate I could have captured. If I were single, I absolutely would have taken advantage of the timing opportunity.

Those who entered the job market around 2007-2010 probably got the absolute worst of it. The onset of accelerating tuition costs and terrible loan advice from the colleges they trusted led to big balances. Then they entered a work force with no opportunities and because of both factors they were unable to take advantage of falling home values. That timing could have set them back a decade and it also changed career aspirations.

I have a hard time believing the political system is capable of fixing anything. Take student loans for example, if they cancel those, what incentive does anyone have for saving for college? Isn't it better to encourage new students to pile up student loan debt because if they've been cancelled once before it is inevitable that they will be cancelled again? Banks "misbehaving" and being 'too big to fail' is another example, aren't banks misbehaving again? Government intervention in healthcare ultimately led to skyrocketing premiums, ever rising prescription costs, and hourly employees seeing their hours reduced below 30/week to skirt rules.
 

BWRhasnoAC

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Housing availability is a complete mess ruined by investors who have turned starter homes into single family rentals. Lumber shortage and "cheap" loans the past two years accelerated the the cost of ownership further pushing availability away. Ag could be next with the likes of bill gates buying up land like crazy because it has good investment returns. Somehow, he has vastly spared Iowa so far. One has to think a reset is coming and with that reset should be some opportunities to buy a distressed property at a discount.

I've gotten fortunate in terms of 'good timing' with unloading a house just before the storm of 2008 hit despite taking a loss on it (but it beat paying rent as I built equity). With real estate, timing is pretty dang important. I considered selling in the past year to snatch up the overpriced "value" of my home and could have rented for a year or two and then jumped back in, but the chaos of moving twice on a family of five wasn't worth the potential $50,000+ swing I anticipate I could have captured. If I were single, I absolutely would have taken advantage of the timing opportunity.

Those who entered the job market around 2007-2010 probably got the absolute worst of it. The onset of accelerating tuition costs and terrible loan advice from the colleges they trusted led to big balances. Then they entered a work force with no opportunities and because of both factors they were unable to take advantage of falling home values. That timing could have set them back a decade and it also changed career aspirations.

I have a hard time believing the political system is capable of fixing anything. Take student loans for example, if they cancel those, what incentive does anyone have for saving for college? Isn't it better to encourage new students to pile up student loan debt because if they've been cancelled once before it is inevitable that they will be cancelled again? Banks "misbehaving" and being 'too big to fail' is another example, aren't banks misbehaving again? Government intervention in healthcare ultimately led to skyrocketing premiums, ever rising prescription costs, and hourly employees seeing their hours reduced below 30/week to skirt rules.
I agree with everything you have to say here but I think you assume I want student loan forgiveness. I would settle for fixing the system for the coming generations first but I think that investing in the generation that has clearly been hit with misfortune repeatedly regardless of their financial acumen could use a bit of relief, not necessarily total forgiveness.
 

NATEizKING

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I agree with everything you have to say here but I think you assume I want student loan forgiveness. I would settle for fixing the system for the coming generations first but I think that investing in the generation that has clearly been hit with misfortune repeatedly regardless of their financial acumen could use a bit of relief, not necessarily total forgiveness.
Everyone got a bunch of stimulus checks, would have been a good way to take out a chunk. Give up vacations and fancy car/house to focus on paying student loans off first.

As far as fixing the future, the focus needs to be on financial literacy and job/salary propsects for degrees in high school, I wasn't taught either of those things.
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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Student loan forgiveness entirely is a political loser, because those that did not go to college oppose it. A better more doable approach is a $10 grand deduction on your taxes for any educational debt, then rolling back the interest rates on any outstanding or current loans to 1% loans. All former loans are recalculated to lower loan rate, and if after this is finished you have paid off the principle that you borrowed, the loan is completed. New loans are issued at the 1% interest rate, and interest does not start building up until your either graduate or 6 months after dropping out.

This approach is fair to everyone, helps those that took out the loans, but also does not feel like another give away to those that did not go to college.
 

DeereClone

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In all these hypotheticals you’re building, everyone magically knows what the future will hold.

Most recent college grads moving to a metro are doing so *hoping they can make it*, knowing that the jobs they want are there, and the sort of people they hope to befriend and maybe eventually start a family with are also there.

It’s only years later, when careers haven’t magically worked out as hoped, and many have still not formed lasting co-habitating relationships (which provide crucial breaks in housing costs and also provide some income stability if both partners are in turbulent careers), that this looks like a poor choice. For many others, the same choice will look like a good one, with satisfying careers and stable family lives.

Encouraging recent college grads to move to BFE with no job prospects and no meaningful capital available for new businesses outside of ag, is not a winning solution.


Pretty nice part of CF, maybe 6 blocks from the downtown area.

$120,000 note on that house would be less than $800/month.

But most won’t buy that and instead someone will rent this for $1,200/month: https://arabellacf.com/floor-plans/

I wouldn’t call Cedar Falls BFE and I’d say it’s a decent job market with good earning potential.
 
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JP4CY

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I think one key part that keeps being mentioned is the part about building a house. Why does every person need to build a house? Are there no current houses good enough? I appraised houses for several years and there are decent starter homes out there. My son is renting an apartment and his rent is the same as our house payment is. He could have saved 200/month if he lived in Cedar Rapids versus North Liberty with a shorter commute but he felt Cedar Rapids was an old person town. It’s his choice and he is fine financially so it is what it is, but he isn’t even considering building a house.

Why must everyone own a house, let alone build their own?
Our house wasn't too old when we moved in but I was very cognizant of the roof, windows, hvac, and other replacement or upgrades we'd do.
I could see that as a reason for new but we just couldn't afford that "idea" for our beginning. We picked off items as we had cash because you can get great discounts with cash for improvements.

Personally, I'd rather have "new" when I'm closer to retirement and make sure that it has amenities that I'd like.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Our house wasn't too old when we moved in but I was very cognizant of the roof, windows, hvac, and other replacement or upgrades we'd do.
I could see that as a reason for new but we just couldn't afford that "idea" for our beginning. We picked off items as we had cash because you can get great discounts with cash for improvements.

Personally, I'd rather have "new" when I'm closer to retirement and make sure that it has amenities that I'd like.
One mistake that many people make when they build a house is believing that since new, they are good many several decades on repairs. Far from the truth. This leads them to 30 mortgages, bad idea.

Water heaters, water softeners, appliances, and several other things will go out around 10 years. Many times, the humidity from mudding Sheetrock, painting and other stuff damages the windows and they need to be replaced in the first 10 years or so. Trees and landscaping are continual things.

Then in 20-25 you have a roof replacement coming. Flooring will need to be pulled in 10-15 years. So you don’t want over a 20 year loan or else you create a nasty spiral of debt.
 
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BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
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