I don't remember the Treiber play but I can't believe their LG and LT didn't get called for a single false start to my knowledge
Officiating at the end of the Iowa game
- Thread starter JUKEBOX
- Start date
No he's not. Look at McDonald's hand on the ground which is what the line of scrimmage from the football represents. The helmet is well above ground level and therefore affected by the angle of the picture. As stated by HFCS above (if you read the entire post) is that it would be very difficult for the helmet to be in front of the hand in an athletic stance to rush forward. Also, we don't know the original spot of the football but it's very common that the center moves the ball forward slightly when setting up to snap the ball.
The LT jumped a lot. Along with the fullback. I know the FB can go sideways but a couple times he moves a split second before the snap. You have to move long enough to have it defined as motion.
Millimeters offsides is still offsides.
Also, I played offensive and defensive line. I understand how three points stances work. Enough to even know he’s in a four point stance there.
What does McDonalds hand have to do with anything first. Second, I played and coached these positions. Look at MJs stance his hand is directly beneath his shoulder. Are you telling me his helmet is behind his shoulder. Like I said in the other post, ISU coaches the lineman to have their butts up, heads down and forward and ina sprinter stance almost.
Your helmet is usually in front of your hands in a 4 point.
Or how did Matt’s guys teach the camp you or your kids went to?
Cool. I'm not a lineman by trade so I'll defer to the lineman.
His helmet's not over the line and it's not in front of his hands so I guess he's a super crap lineman in your book. I do get paid to look at this sort of thing all day long making sense of complex 3D objects.
If "millimeters offsides" matters there should have been lots of these calls in this and every game. It was a BS call. More of a bs call than overturning their goal line fumble would have been actually.
You use his hand to locate where he is relative to the ball, his hand 100% behind the ball using analysis more precise than a live blue tv line (a true perspective grid), probably 2-3 inches behind the ball. Then you see his head is not in front of his hand, it might be even with his hand but probably slightly behind it.
All of this shows it's at least pretty close (and if you had to judge you'd have to say behind) so the people claiming he's absolutely over are probably the most wrong in the whole discussion given this is a call they constantly let go.
Come on guys. 3pt stance, 4 pt stance. These are Cyclone lineman. You are all missing that "third leg" point of contact with the ground . . . . . maybe that is how they can get their helmet out in front of their hand. 
They do.
As does having a mind capable of reasoning in 3D space. We know who can and who can't by the people who see an ISU player in the neutral zone here.
Did you also lay the ball down. The ball has been tilted it up so the LOS scrimmage is roughly 3-4 inches at least farther forward. The LOS is set when when ball is laying on the ground. Centers are allowed to tip and roll the ball. They are not supposed to move it forward or backwards as that can be considered an illegal motion, not called much but it is the rules.
After seeing him fully behind the ball here regardless of ball waggling...you still think that needed to be flagged and there were no similar occurrences the entire rest of the game?
None of this is exact science, I hope my little classroom at least taught people to think in 3D space more accurately.
How do you see the solid blue line that runs across the yard line and through MJ and think he’s not offsides? The ref is right there also. The line judge literally stands on the LOS.
I think we can all agree now that he was offside, not by much, but clearly offside. I appreciate everyone that was involved in this discussion going on 4 days after a game we won, thank you for your contributions.
His hands on the ground establish where he is in relation to the ball on the ground. I don't care what you played or coached. Get in a 4 point stance and lean your head over your hands that far to be clearly offsides and then try to move forward. Usually when you see this call, especially in a critical situation, it's obvious. You can't say definitively that he was offside based on this picture. It's not down the line of scrimmage so anything above ground is skewed. Look at the other players in the picture where their feet and helmets line up. It's 1-2 feet off. No way everyone is lining up 12-18" leaning forward/back. The other two lineman are well behind the line of scrimmage and that's what threw the refs off. It was a BS call.
I’m done here, but I will forward your message to Heacock and tell him his Dline coach is teaching the position wrong, lol.
