Anything official happening re: fixed first half?

[khardbored]

I think there can be a psychology aspect at play, too, that isn't corruption - just bad officiating.

You make one really controversial call, (eject a player), you're really hesitant to do it again. If I recall, there were 3 subsequent hits where there could have been targeting after Freyler was ejected. (One against X - that was for sure spearing), one against Brock, and one I don't recall.

From the officials point of view, imagine if they had ejected a Baylor player on all 3 of those -- "WOAH! 4 ejections in 1 game for targeting! You guys are ejection happy!" A neutral observer would see that and assumer they're terrible officials.

If warranted, YES! By all means they should eject all 4 players in 1 game! But there is something in officiating psychology that makes that really, really hard to do. A slight hesitation to throw the flag (ever so slight - a split second delay) and you think "Well NOW I can't throw the flag! It's way too late!" -- (How often do commentators point out a late flag, implying that the lateness means "wrong?" - a lot.) Perhaps a replay official hesitates for just a second an then thinks "nah, can't now..."

I can tell you calling the same penalty several times in 1 games makes EVERYONE hate you and call you out for things like "trying to make yourself the center of attention." Should that be a reason for making fewer calls? No. Is it? Yes.

What I'm saying above is a potential explanation for doing a bad job vs. corruption. All officials should be able to overcome those psychological reactions. But most can't - the best who can are probably in the NFL.

(source - I officiated High school football for many years. And no, I'm not good enough to do D1 college!)

Side note - the block below the waist call was just plain bad. I'm sure the covering official got "dinged" for that in his post-game evaluation.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

It boils down to the hypothesis being that the same group of 8 guys who live all over in different part of the country (plus a replay official who is most likely a retired coach) is going to spend well over a decade at great personal expense working every level of football to get to a point where the Big 12 hires them then in Week 4 of that first year they're going to fix an Iowa State-Baylor game that likely had a very low handle to make a modest financial gain while risking committing multiple felonies.

I mean...

 

[CYEATHAWK]

You keep saying it was all one-sided. Impactfully, yes their bs calls hurt us more.

But they were bad all the way around. They called X’s big catch in the 1st quarter a touchdown when he clearly was down well before the goal line. That call got reversed but it was an incompetent call. In the 4th quarter, I honestly didn’t think there was enough evidence to say Brock recovered his fumble in the end zone before going out of bounds. I would have let it stand, but they reversed it. Baylor did have some crappy calls against them too. Not as many or as impactful, but they did.

Unless I'm wrong......the "targeting" call that ejected an ISU player wasn't even called on the field, right? We are then not just talking of field officials if true correct?

So then what do we attribute to the person who where ever they sat saw that like a hawk.....but somehow missed the blow that put J. Brock out for a couple of plays?

How many layers of incompetence are accepted before fans say......."now wait a minute"?

 

[SolterraCyclone]

OK, people have shown the TD. It was close and I agree maybe could've stayed a fumble because of call on field. But people showed plenty of proof in these threads that he actually did recover it.

Now compare that to how bizarre it is to call a defensive player because he hit player in the chest who was trying to block him.

Now compare that to the targeting review and lack of targeting review on 3 similar for Baylor and one that was far worse and probalby should've actually been targeting.

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Close calls happen and break both ways. These weren't close calls. In the early going the calls were about not letting ISU play normal boring D, stuff that never gets called and shouldn't, stuff that wasn't even any penalty at all. There was a focus to it.

Listen to Bruns podcast and tell me he's wrong.

I’ll listen to the Bruns podcast. I haven’t yet.

Not arguing the calls didn’t hurt us more, I’m just refuting your point that it was one-sided and therefore fixed.

I would also say there are terrible targeting calls weekly. So much so, that there are Twitter accounts dedicated to calling them out. This one was egregious, but unfortunately not a rarity in today’s game and not evidence the game was fixed.

 

[Sigmapolis]

@HFCS do you need a hug?

 

[mkadl]

2013 KU @HILTON
Snyder Fairwell Game
Saturday

No, I really don't know of a game where we had a series of 3-4 irrational calls so close together that swung games like those 3. Plenty of games where we got benefit of one or two close calls.

That's hardly "every game" but all of them were bizarre enough that just simple screwups are less likely than officials with an interest of some sort that could be as simple as strong personal bias.

Or total dip$hits like you who think analyzing any bad call is saying every game is fixed.

I actually can understand how the bad calls could've been made in our Michigan St elite 8 game and that one stings the most.

Agree the penalties set the tone. And if anyone thinks it didnt have any impact on our defense for at least the rest of the half is just refusing to take human nature into consideration. These are kids. I would hate to play football with my dominating thought being "hit them with my facemask first" That way when the runner lowers his head I won't get kicked out of the game.

 

[JUKEBOX]

It boils down to the hypothesis being that the same group of 8 guys who live all over in different part of the country (plus a replay official who is most likely a retired coach) is going to spend well over a decade at great personal expense working every level of football to get to a point where the Big 12 hires them then in Week 4 of that first year they're going to fix an Iowa State-Baylor game that likely had a very low handle to make a modest financial gain while risking committing multiple felonies.

I mean...

Are there any publicly available statistics on how much money was bet on the ISU vs. Baylor game from the more-popular gambling websites?

 

[Rabbuk]

It boils down to the hypothesis being that the same group of 8 guys who live all over in different part of the country (plus a replay official who is most likely a retired coach) is going to spend well over a decade at great personal expense working every level of football to get to a point where the Big 12 hires them then in Week 4 of that first year they're going to fix an Iowa State-Baylor game that likely had a very low handle to make a modest financial gain while risking committing multiple felonies.

I mean...

I'm thinking most of these situations and I don't think this is one of them but the people doing the fixing either owe someone money or were approached after years of being legitimate. I don't think people are reffing decades of like junior league hockey with the end goal being fixing nhl games. Its a crime of opportunity.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Are there any publicly available statistics on how much money was bet on the ISU vs. Baylor game from the more-popular gambling websites?

Not that I know of.

Sounds like an opportunity to tweet at Rovell...

 

[Rabbuk]

Are there any publicly available statistics on how much money was bet on the ISU vs. Baylor game from the more-popular gambling websites?

I'm not sure if dollar amounts get released but I think I read it was a 55-45ish % split of the handle with Baylor being the 55.

College Football Public Betting Trends & Money Percentages

College football public betting & trends for each week of the NCAAF season, including money percentages for spread & bets for the sharpest betting angles.

www.sportsbettingdime.com

This isn't where I read it but it's similar. I saw something on Twitter referencing this.

 

[JUKEBOX]

Not that I know of.

Sounds like an opportunity to tweet at Rovell...

Yeah the only thing I've seen doing quick searches are the Super Bowl (estimated at like $7.62 billion) which are going to be no where close to an average college football game.

That would be another good piece of information to know (what bets are coming in, how much, and how often they win).

 

[AuH2O]

You can’t flip incompetence on and off.

Baylor was allowed to tackle and play defense like a normal football team.

I think it’s incompetence with a small number of data points. If there were like 10 terrible calls and 9 were one way, that’s one thing.

I also think it’s human nature for a ref to **** up a couple times and rather than make it up with calls just decide they need to stop interjecting themselves into the game so heavily.

 

[Clonefan94]

I’ve always found this argument to be fascinating and wondered how fans like you would react if something terrible happened at Iowa State? How long after the terrible incidents would it be ok to root for your alma matter again?

Absolutely yes, the people involved at Baylor with the rape and murder cover ups were/are awful people. Average Joe Baylor alum had nothing to do with those things and IMO shouldn’t be vilified for them. Same for Penn State, Michigan State, etc.

Alums are a tricky one I guess. Not sure what I'd do if this were found out at ISU. I do have a feeling my support for the Athletic teams would go away for quite a while. That being said, if we are talking about Baylor alums officiating a Baylor football game, then this is even a bigger issue. I mean ****, I was a girls softball umpire for our local league and I was not allowed to umpire a game either of my daughters were playing in. And this was for rec softball.

What I'm speaking of is the casual fan who picks Baylor as a team.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

I think that they should make Baylor play the game over again and in Ames, in December, no heaters allowed for Baylor, we get to pick one of their defensive starters to be out for the game and we get to supply the officiating crew. And, we get to pick the date and time of the game with a maximum of a 24 hr notice to Baylor.

Seems legit...

 

[Marcelason78]

Has JP received our newest apology letter yet?

 

[HFCS]

Alums are a tricky one I guess. Not sure what I'd do if this were found out at ISU. I do have a feeling my support for the Athletic teams would go away for quite a while. That being said, if we are talking about Baylor alums officiating a Baylor football game, then this is even a bigger issue. I mean ****, I was a girls softball umpire for our local league and I was not allowed to umpire a game either of my daughters were playing in. And this was for rec softball.

What I'm speaking of is the casual fan who picks Baylor as a team.

I always say I'd demand ISU enact punishments on the criminal syndicate program if the NCAA/Big 12 did next to nothing.

I'd like to say it's because I want to do what's right, but honestly I would also hate the idea of the degree on my resume being associated with 50 women or 50 kids getting raped. Nothing could make the scandal go away entirely, but the fact that there was virtually no consequence for the program is why people who followed the story and follow college football understandably don't let it go. I don't have some huge axe to grind against SMU for cheating in the 70s/80s because they actually got an institutional punishment for institutional issues...not criminal in terms of rape/murder, but the program wasn't allowed to just keep on trucking into its ultimate glory years the way Baylor did coming off criminal scandals that were covered up by many university and AD officials.

Penn St is actually a more difficult thing because it truly was three decades ago when it all broke to the public. With Baylor the public learned of these crimes and coverups almost in real time and nothing happened institutionally at all. The craziest example to me that showed just how much of an institutional problem it was needing institutional punishment was the womens basketball coach coming out to support the rapists.

 

[Clonefan94]

I always say I'd demand ISU enact punishments on the criminal syndicate program if the NCAA/Big 12 did next to nothing.

I'd like to say it's because I want to do what's right, but honestly I would also hate the idea of the degree on my resume being associated with 50 women or 50 kids getting raped. Nothing could make the scandal go away entirely, but the fact that there was virtually no consequence for the program is why people who followed the story and follow college football understandably don't let it go. I don't have some huge axe to grind against SMU for cheating in the 70s/80s because they actually got an institutional punishment for institutional issues...not criminal in terms of rape/murder, but the program wasn't allowed to just keep on trucking into its ultimate glory years the way Baylor did coming off criminal scandals that were covered up by many university and AD officials.

Penn St is actually a more difficult thing because it truly was three decades ago when it all broke to the public. With Baylor the public learned of these crimes and coverups almost in real time and nothing happened institutionally at all. The craziest example to me that showed just how much of an institutional problem it was needing institutional punishment was the womens basketball coach coming out to support the rapists.

That was my biggest problem with the Baylor issues and still is why I hate them so much. Even when the **** hit the fan, most of what I was getting was, "Oh shucks, time to move on and get back to sports."

 

[jmb]

@HFCS do you need a hug?

Some xanax
...jkjkjkjkjk

 

[WalkingCY]

I didn't say all of our games are fixed, I asked if they're all fixed for our opponents or do they sometimes fix them for us also?

Off the top of my head, I'd say McCarney's last game ever against Missouri. What, in '06?

 

[CRCy17]

Need to figure out where that on/off switch is located for the incompetence.

See I think a big part of incompetence is not being able to consistently do what is expected of you. There was no on/off switch, just that they were inconsistently incompetent, which therefore is just plain incompetence. I think this on/off argument is you thinking they are actually smart enough to make that decision.

Incompetence encompasses all we need to know about this crew, and nothing more.