What players have fundamentally changed a sport?

[KidSilverhair]

Michael Jordan changed pretty much everything about how basketball operates. Style of play, fun to watch, competitiveness, fashion, etc.

Before him, Magic and Bird saved or at least established the NBA as a staple.

I’m old enough to remember that, pre-Magic and Bird, the NBA finals were tape-delayed and shown on network TV after the late news at 10:30 pm.

 

[keepngoal]

I think he made it "cool" again and enhanced it thru the peripherals:
Hearing about his diet, mental health, alcohol use, relationship with his dad.
I think it made people realize not all GOATs have it easy. Gotta get thru a lot of adversity.

Also for extra credit he made me love Rowdy Gaines on the call.

I appreciated the love for the sport, i'll agree to disagree that he fundamentally changed the sport, he was/still is a great advocate to the struggles of humans and those in sport.

 

[Gonzo]

I’m old enough to remember that, pre-Magic and Bird, the NBA finals were tape-delayed and shown on network TV after the late news at 10:30 pm.

Don't forget Dr. J when it comes to changing the NBA. One way I've heard it put that makes sense to me is that Dr. J took the game above the rim, Michael Jordan kept it there.

 

[Jer]

I appreciated the love for the sport, i'll agree to disagree that he fundamentally changed the sport, he was/still is a great advocate to the struggles of humans and those in sport.

Agree. To me, he's one of those guys that you find yourself tuning in to watch while otherwise you wouldn't pay any attention - but not because of the sport, but because of the person and story. My eyes turned away from swimming right when he retired.

This to me is an example of a player transcending the sport rather than changing the sport. I became a fan of HIM, not of swimming.

 

[CtownCyclone]

I appreciated the love for the sport, i'll agree to disagree that he fundamentally changed the sport, he was/still is a great advocate to the struggles of humans and those in sport.

For swimming, I would lean more towards the suit technology as a fundamental change. All of a sudden, records were falling by a lot by swimmers who wore the high tech body suits.

 

[keepngoal]

For swimming, I would lean more towards the suit technology as a fundamental change. All of a sudden, records were falling by a lot by swimmers who wore the high tech body suits.

You may be remembering the full body tech suits. Those are no longer allowed for men. Some records from that time still stand (unanimously voted their ban in 2009). What swimmers now where, tech suits, have had an impact, but nothing more than any other sport that utilizes new tech or better tech.

Edit: the once used 'paper' suits for low drag, which left nothing to the "imagination". They were baaaaad.

 

[Cytown12]

I take a bit of a contrarian viewpoint on this.

I put these types of things into one of two buckets.

1 – New fans. I think most of the instances people will mention, a player may have drawn new attention to a sport, but those “new eyes” are less likely to last. This happens a lot at the collegiate level where spouses of fans start paying attention, fans of a school’s other sports start paying attention, etc. Typically, the effects are short-term while that player is playing and dissipates shortly after.

A smaller subset of this would be whole new fans to a sport. This is obviously the hardest to measure but I think you could point to several clear instances of it occurring at the different levels.

2 – Existing and casual fans. They are far more likely to have drawn attention from existing fans or casual fans that maintain or renew excitement and energy. I think most of the time, people that already pay attention to the sport tune in or pay attention, or sometimes renew/extend/maintain their attention.

I'd say those that had the biggest lasting impact would be Tiger Woods, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Hollyfield, Tyson, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Curry, Sheryl Swoopes, and Lisa Leslie. All are true generational talents.

You forgot Gretzky

 

[Jer]

You may be remembering the full body tech suits. Those are no longer allowed for men. Some records from that time still stand (unanimously voted their ban in 2009). What swimmers now where, tech suits, have had an impact, but nothing more than any other sport that utilizes new tech or better tech.

Edit: the once used 'paper' suits for low drag, which left nothing to the "imagination". They were baaaaad.

I know nothing about competitive swimming outside watching Phelps. But I’ve noticed at the Waukee YMCA where they list all the records broken out by boys and girls two things… all the records seem to have been broken in the last 3-5 years and the boys are in every category faster than the girls.

Any rationale for that? Is it just better conditioning and strength or are there changes even at the HS level compared to say 10 years ago?

 

[keepngoal]

I know nothing about competitive swimming outside watching Phelps. But I’ve noticed at the Waukee YMCA where they list all the records broken out by boys and girls two things… all the records seem to have been broken in the last 3-5 years and the boys are in every category faster than the girls.

Any rationale for that? Is it just better conditioning and strength or are there changes even at the HS level compared to say 10 years ago?

The sport just keeps getting faster. Like most sports that are timed. And that is a good thing. With the construction of many new pools in Iowa (IIRC, 7 in the last 15 years, 6 in the last 9) the sport has blossomed, so more competitors and more speed. Adding in better dryland training, we get better times.

New pools or new areas to swimming will see drops consistently and more frequently than established areas with pools.

Nearly all that swim for a HS swim also at the club level (very few do not swim for their HS, and tend to be at the very top nationally), but HS swimming isn't like competitive club, while records break for HSs, rarely is it an overall state record. Also, "Pool" records seen at HS pools are not pool records for all that may swim there competitively, instead the "pool" record is only for HS meets swam at that pool.

 

[Jer]

The sport just keeps getting faster. Like most sports that are timed. And that is a good thing. With the construction of many new pools in Iowa (IIRC, 7 in the last 15 years, 6 in the last 9) the sport has blossomed, so more competitors and more speed. Adding in better dryland training, we get better times.

New pools or new areas to swimming will see drops consistently and more frequently than established areas with pools.

Nearly all that swim for a HS swim also at the club level (very few do not swim for their HS, and tend to be at the very top nationally), but HS swimming isn't like competitive club, while records break for HSs, rarely is it an overall state record. Also, "Pool" records seen at HS pools are not pool records for all that may swim there competitively, instead the "pool" record is only for HS meets swam at that pool.

Great info, thank you! Ironically, I actually though (incorrectly) that swimming pools were decreasing in Iowa as places like Ogden (where I grew up) abandoned their indoor Olympic size pool due to maintenance costs.

But at the same time places like Waukee are building big new natatoriums, which would go along with your post.

 

[keepngoal]

Great info, thank you! Ironically, I actually though (incorrectly) that swimming pools were decreasing in Iowa as places like Ogden (where I grew up) abandoned their indoor Olympic size pool due to maintenance costs.

But at the same time places like Waukee are building big new natatoriums, which would go along with your post.

Ogden had an Olympic pool? That's 50m x 25m/yds. People in the Midwest tend to label any larger looking pool or one with lane lines (lol), as Olympic.

 

[Jer]

Ogden had an Olympic pool? That's 50m x 25m/yds. People in the Midwest tend to label any larger looking pool or one with lane lines (lol), as Olympic.

That's what they always called it when we lived there, but I don't know measurements or if that was accurate. They had it open to the public in the summers so that's where we went every day. It was a little smaller than a basketball court in width and about the same in length. The deep end went down to probably 13 feet.

 

[ISUTex]

Babe and Tiger are the easiest two to select for their respective sports.

For BB, Wilt fundamentally changed BB moreso than any other player. And there is a new Showtime doucmentary on Wilt and supposedly it is very good. Here is a link to the trailer.

FB is a tough one but the modern day game is primarily rooted from the coaching of Paul Brown (with due respect to Bill Walsh, LaVell Edwards, Mouse Davis, Hal Mumme and Mike Leach). From a players' standpoint, that is very difficult but certainly Lawrence Taylor (as the first great non DL premium pass rusher) is at or near the top (with due respect to Jim Brown as the greatest player of all time).

Wilt did change a lot of rules , but Jordan really did change the world of basketball.

 

[ISUTex]

Got to give Dan Gable a shout out.

Gable lost though.

 

[Jer]

Wilt did change a lot of rules , but Jordan really did change the world of basketball.

I’m 41 so was really just getting into sports outside of Iowa State in the early 90s. Jordan was the reason I first watched the NBA and did until he retired. Not only was he next level on the court, but he had a charisma and smile that just made him incredibly fun to watch. I don’t know that it can be described how much interest he generated simply because of that. There have been dominate players before and after, but he did everything in a way that looked so effortless and graceful.

I’ve watched the NBA off and on since then, usually watching Kobe or Lebron… and while both were next level players, neither did/do it quite like Jordan. They both had/have a fun step to them, but Jordan was something different.

 

[stuclone]

Mick Schumacher and Lewis Hamilton

 

[nfrine]

Gable lost though.

Gable was outstanding as a wrestler and certainly led the way as a coach. Didn’t like where he coached at but he was great.

 

[Tre4ISU]

I'm biased but Tiger Woods is the one that comes to mind first. He fundamentally changed everything about golf and it eventually filtered down. He's one of the last guys in the era where contact was more important than speed because of the equipment, but he was able to combine 125 mph club head speed with strike like almost no one else and he did it with antiquated equipment, even for that time. If you dropped 2000 Tiger Woods into todays world and gave these guys 2000 equipment he wouldn't be touched, ever. I know he wasn't then but it would be even more extreme now because most of these guys have grown up in a world where speed is everything. That all started when he took over. I mean, the guy was making cuts on one leg. He won multiple times after 25 back surgeries and what I assume was still a lot of pain.

Not every change he affected was good. Course setup and design, especially for amateurs, was ruined for 20 years because everyone thought the way to "Tiger-proof" was to narrow fairways and make it longer. That just played directly into his hands and influenced a lot of ****** decisions in new golf courses and how events were set up.

The money is obvious. The fan exposure is obvious. He just changed everything surrounding golf in a way no one else every has been able to do. He's just a guy that transcends the sport, even now. If you go look at stars of a sport, and given, golf naturally has a much longer career arc (though I'd argue that's going to drastically decrease in this era), the guy has taken up all the oxygen for 25 years and if he comes back again, which I think he'll try given what I've read about what this surgery should do for him, he will again.

 

[cykadelic2]

Wilt did change a lot of rules , but Jordan really did change the world of basketball.

Certainly off the court stuff (endorsements, etc.) but on the court, Wilt stands out in terms of fundamentally changing the sport.

 

[ISUTex]

Gable was outstanding as a wrestler and certainly led the way as a coach. Didn’t like where he coached at but he was great.

Yes, legendary wrestler and coach. Not as good as Sanderson.