Do you think non profitable college athletic programs should give out scholarships?

Sousaclone

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2006
1,853
1,179
113
North of Seattle
Why stop at scholarships? Why not just get rid of the entire sport if it's not profitable? Why not get rid of the entire department if it's not profitable and requires outside funding (I know that ISU is finally self sufficient)? Should the AD be required to refund money for all those years we got our teeth kicked in? I mean, if you ordered a filet at a restaurant and they served you spam you'd be pissed off and want a refund.
 

hurdleisu24

Well-Known Member
Bookie
Sep 13, 2008
16,293
273
83
New York
The founding purpose of the U.S. university system was altruistic, not capitalistic. The university's role is (or was) to stimulate all facets of human growth and achievement: mind, body, spirit. Athletics was part of that mission. Just as academic departments aren't determined based solely on popularity or profitability, neither are sports teams. IMO, this is what makes university athetics interesting and valuable.
This is a great answer! Unfortunately, athletics are a business and the bottom line is becoming the driving force. So the question the OP asked is an interesting one. I wonder if everything besides football/basketball will become essentially the D3 model- tuition driven.

While everyone is focused on the build up of media deals, NIL and realignment, I'm more curious with the backside of the collapse (break off of revenue/non-revenue) and what the athletics world will look like as we restructure everything.
 

jdoggivjc

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2006
61,630
23,889
113
Macomb, MI
As someone with an MBA I can confirm its hardly a real degree. Esp compared with Aero E.

I did learn some useful finance stuff though!

I wanted to argue the point that an MBA is hardly a real degree... then I realized just how little work I actually put into obtaining that MBA - and earned a 3.6 GPA to boot - the best of my academic career.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,367
55,283
113
My son is going to be a freshman at Iowa State this fall he is getting about $3500 in scholarship money, academic scholarship money this coming year. So what about 15% to 20% of the yearly cost.

*Sounds like he needs to bag groceries or do a paper route like someone did in the 1970s when tuition was like $500.

*people actually believe this.
 

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,755
63,821
113
Not exactly sure.
appreciate the insight from a former track athlete.

completely agree there are bigger ramifications with forming deeper lifelong connections to that university and relationships that are formed with fellow athletes i'm sure.

my question is more directly about why should scholarships be given to these sports? sounds like you barely got any help anyway. i do agree on a global level olympic sports are more important so name recognition for some track person is beneficial to the University. but there's lots of other sports let's be honest nobody cares about even at an olympic level.

i guess the answer might be as simple as "cause that's just how it is"

anyone have a rough idea how many total student athletes are at ISU that are not on football or either basketball team?

i'd guess a few hundred total?
You also have to have X amount is sports to qualify for D1. Some conferences have their own requirements also.
 

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,755
63,821
113
Not exactly sure.
*Sounds like he needs to bag groceries or do a paper route like someone did in the 1970s when tuition was like $500.

*people actually believe this.
I found one of my old Ubills when cleaning out my moms house after she passed. I punched it into an inflation calculator to see what it would be in todays dollars. My son was getting the same degree as I did. He also looked at the same job as I had (placement office told me I had the highest starting salary in that job when I graduated for that position). So I punched in the difference in the his offered salary and what I got. The increase was larger than the increase in tuition……….
 

Rabbuk

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2011
56,961
46,117
113
I found one of my old Ubills when cleaning out my moms house after she passed. I punched it into an inflation calculator to see what it would be in todays dollars. My son was getting the same degree as I did. He also looked at the same job as I had (placement office told me I had the highest starting salary in that job when I graduated for that position). So I punched in the difference in the his offered salary and what I got. The increase was larger than the increase in tuition……….
Now punch in the cost of everything else.
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Nov 15, 2011
57,367
55,283
113
I found one of my old Ubills when cleaning out my moms house after she passed. I punched it into an inflation calculator to see what it would be in todays dollars. My son was getting the same degree as I did. He also looked at the same job as I had (placement office told me I had the highest starting salary in that job when I graduated for that position). So I punched in the difference in the his offered salary and what I got. The increase was larger than the increase in tuition……….

I'd guess bagging groceries part time didn't keep up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BCClone

BCClone

Well Seen Member.
SuperFanatic
SuperFanatic T2
Sep 4, 2011
67,755
63,821
113
Not exactly sure.
Now punch in the cost of everything else.
Don’t know if you really want me to. My daughter is renting a two bedroom for 900/month. My 2 bedroom rent was 510/month in 93. The one savings we had was we snuck a third in to cut the rent cost. Not as easy to do that now.
 

NY Chicago Fan

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2023
343
376
63
Not saying I agree, but I understand the question. Like why should a public school pay to have a better tennis team for example. Even if they had zero scholarship dollars to give out, they could still find 12 students who would want to be on the Team. I would have ran cross country if I could have made the Team, certainly did not need any scholarship to sway that choice, I just was not fast enough. So the argument that it allows the school to participate is invalid. As I assume OP means if all schools were playing by the same rules. The level of play would change but why does that matter. Could not each thing be self sufficient with whatever funds they can collect.

I'm ignorant in the actual rule of title9 as been long time since that came out, so that might have to change. I thought the rule was meant to create equal # of Teams but if it ties in rules on scholarship and funding then that's different

Obvious counter argument is we pay taxes to provide many services we don't use but helps the common good.

As someone who had academic scholarship at ISU, I'm glad the school does pay for things that don't make money. And I've yet to donate a dime since I've graduated. More power to those that choose to do so, but I donate to my son's college fund or other charities at this point in life.

I definitely do not like NIL, as I only see this increasing costs of basketball and football games over time. Because becomes a race for more cash, just like pros
 
Last edited:

NWICY

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2012
35,615
31,741
113
No, but it has to come from somewhere. If athletic departments only had like 3-4 sports, coaching salaries would be even more crazy than they are now.

That escalator seems to have no end. I know we have to participate but damn some of those numbers are ridiculous. ISU does as good as job as any of managing salaries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BCClone

NWICY

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2012
35,615
31,741
113
It makes a handful of students happy they get to compete in some sport they're good at but nobody else at university really cares about it?

i mean i don't have a better alternative, more so thinking about why they get a scholarship and the engineer or person getting MBA or PHD doesn't get a scholarship.

i guess it's simply cause "people like sports and being active and it creates more balanced culture".

Hey hold your horses. Many here jumped on the women's tennis bandwagon this spring/early summer when they made their run in the NCAAS.

Let the company you work for pay for your MBA or Phd.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: drlove

mred

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2006
9,724
6,939
113
SE WI
bball.notnothing.net
I'm ignorant in the actual rule of title9 as been long time since that came out, so that might have to change. I thought the rule was meant to create equal # of Teams but if it ties in rules on scholarship and funding then that's different
The text of Title IX is for equal opportunity in education (no direct mention of sports). The courts have ruled that, in practice, athletic scholarships by gender must be proportional to enrollment by gender for any institution that receives any sort of federal aid, which includes private universities that have students with Pell grants or federally subsidized loans.

That's off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment, so I might be missing some subtleties.
 

NWICY

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2012
35,615
31,741
113
A lot of people go to college that don’t finish, get something worthless, or go to a bad college. Costs are out of control but a lot of people do get scholarships, almost everyone I know that went to a private university got one.
By the time my niece got her scholarships for music,speech,debate it cost her the same to go to Simpson as ISU. This was 3 or 4 yrs ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FriendlySpartan

SEIOWA CLONE

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2018
6,793
6,989
113
63
There are 6 "headcount" (full ride) sports:
Football (85)
MBB (13)
WBB (15)
W Gymnastics (12)
VB (12)
W Tennis (8)

Everything else is on an "equivalency" (partial) basis.

All of the men's equivalency sports were cut by 10% around 1991. That's why those have weird decimals (wrestling 9.9, golf 4.5, baseball 11.7).

Iowa State has around 430 student-athletes in any given year. Approximately 145 of them get a full ride. The other 90 scholarships are divided among the remaining 285 S-As.

OP doesn't realize that there are federal laws, NCAA rules, and conference rules that dictate pretty much all of it.
Great info, for example a school can give out 20 scholarships for women's rowing, on a team of 40 rowers. The NCAA has limits on each sport. This will be where the Big easy and the SEC has a huge advantage over the Big 12 and ACC, being able to fully fund or start up new sports, instead of playing them as "club sports" like ISU does with hockey.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: NWICY

Clonefan32

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2008
23,529
25,983
113
Why stop at scholarships? Why not just get rid of the entire sport if it's not profitable? Why not get rid of the entire department if it's not profitable and requires outside funding (I know that ISU is finally self sufficient)? Should the AD be required to refund money for all those years we got our teeth kicked in? I mean, if you ordered a filet at a restaurant and they served you spam you'd be pissed off and want a refund.

I know this can be a question at some D3 schools that don't even do scholarships. The cost involved in transporting kids, equipment, insurance, etc. is significant, and you have many schools facing bugetary issues and having to cut staff/faculty. But as others have mentioned, it's hard to look at it as just a line items. Sports are one of few unifying aspects of a university. It also creates ties back to the school that have huge implications for donor support.

So I don't think it's as simple as just looking at the cost involved. But I can also understand frustration in seeing new athletic facilities go up while you can't afford to keep some of your staff/faculty.
 

DrClone

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2009
1,379
747
113
Some schools give out theatre scholarships, one of my friends got a full ride to Michigan playing the oboe. There are also quidditch and esports scholarships.

I’m legit not sure what you’re trying to get at here besides saying that these things don’t provide value to you personally so they shouldn’t be getting assistance
Fishing scholarships
 

Latest posts

Help Support Us

Become a patron