Do you think non profitable college athletic programs should give out scholarships?

[CycloneErik]

It makes a handful of students happy they get to compete in some sport they're good at but nobody else at university really cares about it?

i mean i don't have a better alternative, more so thinking about why they get a scholarship and the engineer or person getting MBA or PHD doesn't get a scholarship.

i guess it's simply cause "people like sports and being active and it creates more balanced culture".

Huh? Maybe MBAs don't, but that's hardly even a real degree. You'll struggle to find PhDs who aren't getting at least a full scholarship for tuition.

There are some very good questions to ask about athletics and academic connections, but this isn't one.

 

[CascadeClone]

still don't get the relevance. some complete unknown % of people and unknown $ amount.

keep it classy Sparty! representing well per usual.

So what is the axe you are grinding here? What's your goal?

Cancel non revs so the money can be spent on football?
Title IX is a commie plot?
Sports are a waste of time, a la Michael Crow?

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

Right, but the athletic department isn’t handing out academic scholarships. What you are pointing out is apples to oranges.

The athletic Departments write a check to the university for tuition, room, and board.

 

[CascadeClone]

Huh? Maybe MBAs don't, but that's hardly even a real degree. You'll struggle to find PhDs who aren't getting at least a full scholarship for tuition.

There are some very good questions to ask about athletics and academic connections, but this isn't one.

As someone with an MBA I can confirm its hardly a real degree. Esp compared with Aero E.

I did learn some useful finance stuff though!

 

[hurdleisu24]

I've never understood why athletes of any sport outside of basketball and football are getting scholarships.

I love sports as much as anyone. But why are any track/wrestling/volleyball/swim&dive/golf student athletes getting a free ride when there's nothing profitable for Athletic Dept.?

Just pride to represent in those sports? Cause....we've always had those sports?

With Athletic Depts focusing more and more on bottom line, these type of questions will start being asked.

It is something as a former track athlete at ISU (see picture), I worry about for the future of the Olympic sports. I see so much of the idea if they don't pay their bills, they shouldn't be around.

For reference to my sport, the men's indoor/outdoor/cross country get to spread 12.3 scholarships amongst the whole team. Usually its around 40-50 athletes. So those other athletes are paying to be a member of the ISU community. Women get a few more scholarships to spread around, I forget what the actual number is off the top of my head. If someone wants to look those numbers up, it is in the NCAA rule book.

So while they are not bringing in money to the athletic department, they are bringing money to ISU. The most I ever received in a year for athletic scholarship was less than $1000 for a year and I was an all-big12 athlete. I walked away with a ton of debt after my 5 years in Ames. It was an honor to represent ISU and I paid for it. I nearly went to Wartburg and would have paid less but running for a D1 program like ISU was a dream come true and I tested myself against the best in the world.

Fast forward to today. I have donated thousands to ISU, I have had season tickets to ISU for over a decade. I have spent countless dollars on ISU gear. I would not have done that if I hadn't been given even the smallest scholarship to come to ISU. I know many of my teammates are the same.

To get back to your question of why do we have those sports? 1. culture- bringing people together of various backgrounds creates a richer experience for all student-athletes. 2. It might not be a short term financial benefit, but when you have the pride of putting on the jersey, it creates a lifelong desire to be connected to the institution and supports giving over the life of those student athletes.

One final thought....think of where we would be if the greatest minor league system in the world for those Olympic sports, didn't exist. Top athletes from across the globe come to the states to participate in the NCAA system. If that didn't exist, sports globally would be far different.

 

[madguy30]

Pretty sure the smart folks in the engineering etc. are going to be on some sort of financial academic ride.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

How many athletes get full scholarships? My understanding is a lot of the student athletes in the olympic sports get partial scholarships if they get anything at all. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I have.

Totally depends upon the sport. In football and men's basketball they get 85 and 13 scholarships and cannot be split up. Other men's sports get a set number per sport and can be divided up. So, you have a kid wrestling on maybe .5 a scholarship.

Woman's sports are allowed to give out more scholarships like WBB gives out 15, as an example. This is done to make sure that the total number of men's and women's scholarships are roughly equal to one another. Football is a scholarship killer for most schools, and therefore women's sports can offer full scholarships to make up for the fact that football gets 85 total. So, at EIU, the womans rowing team members are all on scholarships, while secondary men's sports have fewer and are dividing them up.

The only sports that make money at any college is football and men's basketball, every other sport loses money, even those that draw well like ISU or EIU women's basketball or may break even once in a while. Look sometime at what ISU is charging for women's basketball tickets or VB tickets, $5 to $10 bucks a game. Many times, they announce a women's VB game will be held after the football game, and if you show your football ticket, you can get in for free and sit in the upper level of Hilton.

 

[loyalson4evatru]

Fine I’ll hold your hand. 73% of TCU freshman get merit based scholarships. Want to know how? Just by simply applying to the school, that’s it. That’s all they have to do. It’s like that for every legit private school I know. Almost no one pays full cost unless they are way below standards.

cool. nobody cares. what does it have to do with my question?

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

How many athletes get full scholarships? My understanding is a lot of the student athletes in the olympic sports get partial scholarships if they get anything at all. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I have.

85 for football and 13 for men's and women's BB. Tmk, these are all full scholarships. Can't offer partials.

All other sports, tmk, the coaches can play God and offer full and partial ships. Obviously, the total can't exceed what the limit is as determined by the ncaa.

 

[madguy30]

It is something as a former track athlete at ISU (see picture), I worry about for the future of the Olympic sports. I see so much of the idea if they don't pay their bills, they shouldn't be around.

For reference to my sport, the men's indoor/outdoor/cross country get to spread 12.3 scholarships amongst the whole team. Usually its around 40-50 athletes. So those other athletes are paying to be a member of the ISU community. Women get a few more scholarships to spread around, I forget what the actual number is off the top of my head. If someone wants to look those numbers up, it is in the NCAA rule book.

So while they are not bringing in money to the athletic department, they are bringing money to ISU. The most I ever received in a year for athletic scholarship was less than $1000 for a year and I was an all-big12 athlete. I walked away with a ton of debt after my 5 years in Ames. It was an honor to represent ISU and I paid for it. I nearly went to Wartburg and would have paid less but running for a D1 program like ISU was a dream come true and I tested myself against the best in the world.

Fast forward to today. I have donated thousands to ISU, I have had season tickets to ISU for over a decade. I have spent countless dollars on ISU gear. I would not have done that if I hadn't been given even the smallest scholarship to come to ISU. I know many of my teammates are the same.

To get back to your question of why do we have those sports? 1. culture- bringing people together of various backgrounds creates a richer experience for all student-athletes. 2. It might not be a short term financial benefit, but when you have the pride of putting on the jersey, it creates a lifelong desire to be connected to the institution and supports giving over the life of those student athletes.

One final thought....think of where we would be if the greatest minor league system in the world for those Olympic sports, didn't exist. Top athletes from across the globe come to the states to participate in the NCAA system. If that didn't exist, sports globally would be far different.

How would you have paid less to go to Wartburg? Or are you taking grants etc. into consideration?

 

[FriendlySpartan]

cool. nobody cares. what does it have to do with my question?

You asked me to give you percentages you idiot! God I hope you’re just a fan and didn’t actually attend ISU.

 

[loyalson4evatru]

It is something as a former track athlete at ISU (see picture), I worry about for the future of the Olympic sports. I see so much of the idea if they don't pay their bills, they shouldn't be around.

For reference to my sport, the men's indoor/outdoor/cross country get to spread 12.3 scholarships amongst the whole team. Usually its around 40-50 athletes. So those other athletes are paying to be a member of the ISU community. Women get a few more scholarships to spread around, I forget what the actual number is off the top of my head. If someone wants to look those numbers up, it is in the NCAA rule book.

So while they are not bringing in money to the athletic department, they are bringing money to ISU. The most I ever received in a year for athletic scholarship was less than $1000 for a year and I was an all-big12 athlete. I walked away with a ton of debt after my 5 years in Ames. It was an honor to represent ISU and I paid for it. I nearly went to Wartburg and would have paid less but running for a D1 program like ISU was a dream come true and I tested myself against the best in the world.

Fast forward to today. I have donated thousands to ISU, I have had season tickets to ISU for over a decade. I have spent countless dollars on ISU gear. I would not have done that if I hadn't been given even the smallest scholarship to come to ISU. I know many of my teammates are the same.

To get back to your question of why do we have those sports? 1. culture- bringing people together of various backgrounds creates a richer experience for all student-athletes. 2. It might not be a short term financial benefit, but when you have the pride of putting on the jersey, it creates a lifelong desire to be connected to the institution and supports giving over the life of those student athletes.

One final thought....think of where we would be if the greatest minor league system in the world for those Olympic sports, didn't exist. Top athletes from across the globe come to the states to participate in the NCAA system. If that didn't exist, sports globally would be far different.

appreciate the insight from a former track athlete.

completely agree there are bigger ramifications with forming deeper lifelong connections to that university and relationships that are formed with fellow athletes i'm sure.

my question is more directly about why should scholarships be given to these sports? sounds like you barely got any help anyway. i do agree on a global level olympic sports are more important so name recognition for some track person is beneficial to the University. but there's lots of other sports let's be honest nobody cares about even at an olympic level.

i guess the answer might be as simple as "cause that's just how it is"

anyone have a rough idea how many total student athletes are at ISU that are not on football or either basketball team?

i'd guess a few hundred total?

 

[loyalson4evatru]

You asked me to give you percentages you idiot! God I hope you’re just a fan and didn’t actually attend ISU.

yes cause one percentage for one school with no idea of $ amounts gives us reasonable data

there isn't an answer because nobody knows. but i guarantee you a majority of college expenses are not covered by scholarships for a majority of college students. that was my only point.

 

[AllInForISU]

cool. nobody cares. what does it have to do with my question?

Can you even explain the point of your original post?

 

[theshadow]

There are 6 "headcount" (full ride) sports:
Football (85)
MBB (13)
WBB (15)
W Gymnastics (12)
VB (12)
W Tennis (8)

Everything else is on an "equivalency" (partial) basis.

All of the men's equivalency sports were cut by 10% around 1991. That's why those have weird decimals (wrestling 9.9, golf 4.5, baseball 11.7).

Iowa State has around 430 student-athletes in any given year. Approximately 145 of them get a full ride. The other 90 scholarships are divided among the remaining 285 S-As.

OP doesn't realize that there are federal laws, NCAA rules, and conference rules that dictate pretty much all of it.

 

[theshadow]

Nearly all athletic departments are lucky to just break even.

Big difference between "lucky to just break even" and "intentionally budgeting to spend every incoming dollar."

 

[hurdleisu24]

appreciate the insight from a former track athlete.

completely agree there are bigger ramifications with forming deeper lifelong connections to that university and relationships that are formed with fellow athletes i'm sure.

my question is more directly about why should scholarships be given to these sports? sounds like you barely got any help anyway. i do agree on a global level olympic sports are more important so name recognition for some track person is beneficial to the University. but there's lots of other sports let's be honest nobody cares about even at an olympic level.

i guess the answer might be as simple as "cause that's just how it is"

anyone have a rough idea how many total student athletes are at ISU that are not on football or either basketball team?

i'd guess a few hundred total?

It is easier to keep the same trajectory than to totally change course. We won't see a change to the "non-revenue" sports until football breaks away. Even then, I think it will be more of a revert back to decades ago. Salaries will be cut, more localized travel, more limited gear, etc.

Also, there are a minimum number of sports required to be a member of the Big 12. We are at the minimum last I knew.

Total number of athletes outside football/basketball would be roughly 300ish.

 

[isucy86]

In relation to OP, most kids are only on partial scholarship. So a lot of their college costs are covered by pell grants, govt aid, student loans.

All that Federal money helps support university costs.

It's even more pronounced when looking at D3 or JUCO programs. They don't have big media rights deals, but athletics is a big part of keeping the lights on. A high % of student population are student-athletes.

 

[loyalson4evatru]

There are 6 "headcount" (full ride) sports:
Football (85)
MBB (13)
WBB (15)
W Gymnastics (12)
VB (12)
W Tennis (8)

Everything else is on an "equivalency" (partial) basis.

All of the men's equivalency sports were cut by 10% around 1991. That's why those have weird decimals (wrestling 9.9, golf 4.5, baseball 11.7).

Iowa State has around 430 student-athletes in any given year. Approximately 145 of them get a full ride. The other 90 scholarships are divided among the remaining 285 S-As.

OP doesn't realize that there are federal laws, NCAA rules, and conference rules that dictate pretty much all of it.

i know there are rules we have to follow.

i guess my question was meant to be more philosophical rather than getting into legal requirements.
while also relating to current climate of NCAA sports and money dictating all this realignment.

hurdleisu24 has the best answer so far. but it doesn't completely answer my question, it was more about their own specific experience.

 

[Land Grant]

The founding purpose of the U.S. university system was altruistic, not capitalistic. The university's role is (or was) to stimulate all facets of human growth and achievement: mind, body, spirit. Athletics was part of that mission. Just as academic departments aren't determined based solely on popularity or profitability, neither are sports teams. IMO, this is what makes university athetics interesting and valuable.