*** Official VCU vs IOWA STATE Game(Day) Thread ***

[I-stateTheTruth]

I hope all you Cyclone fans had a great Thanksgiving. I just watched the game (it's on ESPN+ if you couldn't watch it live) and since I can't sleep, I'll throw a few thoughts into the mixer:

* The last time ISU was in this tourney - I was there - Monte-Naz-Matt and company barely got buy an average Indiana State team in the 1st round through some Matty Ice heroics in the last minute. They then went out and handled Miami before losing in the final to Gonzaga.

* Much like Tamin Lipsey has improved his game, King McClure has improved as an announcer. I remain, however, a non-fan (of King, not Lipsey).

* The first half was pretty ugly but we were the less athletic team for the first time this year .VCU's size and defensive effort disrupted our offensive rhythm as well as finishing. A few shots going in probably would've settled us down and opened things up but while we have better offensive skills sets this year compared to last, we probably will have some dry spells like that (hopefully, not QUITE so ugly). Our struggles in the 1st half were NOT because of reffing; it had to do with what VCU was doing and how we did not handle it well.

* The effort was TERRIFIC by the Cyclones when they could've hung their heads. The 4 guards - I'm including J-Pav - really got after it on D. Being able to rotate players and have some depth there will help at the defensive end.

* We're going to need Curtis Jones to knock down some shots and be a threat on the offensive side. His history says he can do that.

* Down the stretch, our offense was basically high ball screens and attacking the rim. That won't work every game. We didn't really get Momcilovic, King, and Biliew in the flow of the offense but they didn't do very well when they did have the ball in their hands.

* Are there still BRE haters out there? The guy was terrific tonight and has been a great Cyclone. Under-rated: his ability to move laterally to help on D and guard smaller players on switches.

* Momcilovic is very fundamentally sound and his awareness of positional defense will keep improviing. But there were times when opposing wings were pretty confident they could beat him off the dribble. TJ had C Jones in the game instead of Milan down the stretch. I think it'll be good if he can get a couple early 3s to fall vs. VaTech to get his confidence up vs. P5 competition.

* At the 4:00 mark, the ESPN "win probability" was 85% to VCU.

* Lipsey is our best player (though Gilbert is probably a step quicker getting to the rim). Tamin's floater for the winner was a thing of Monte-esque beauty and clutch-ness.

I was at the only other Virginia Tech - ISU match-up in the Destin, FL area where one Abdel Nader recorded a memorable dunk and Tech just couldn't handle our firepower. With future NBAers Georges, Matt, Monte and Georges on the squad, the leading scorer that game was .... Jameel McKay with 23 of ISU's 99 points.

 

[alarson]

I’ve come to the conclusion he’s a Steve Prohm burner account.

Has he suggested calling a timeout after an ISU made basket to stop one of our own runs?

 

[RoseClone]

This isn't true at all. If anything the easily offended brigade is overreacting to the reaction of Milan's play.

He was the worst and most ineffective player on the floor tonight, for either team, and by leaps and bounds. He did little on the offensive end to get open, was utterly pathetic at blocking out or getting rebounds (not his primary role but he had 0 rebounds and repeatedly let his man go through him), and was getting abused defensively.

On one hand it was quite concerning how easy it appeared for him to be neutralized but it is one game. He's young, will learn from it, and it's possible he was sick. I think most people don't understand, given the struggles and particular matchup in THIS particular game, why Milan got the minutes of an effective player while Watson, someone who is almost always a good to great defender, got ONE minute. In that one minute Watson looked fine, not seemingly hampered by illness or injury.

I'd like to think this will be Milans worst game of the season. With that said I don't get Otz's thought process for leaving Milan out there and compromising our ability to win an important game. We were very fortunate to overcome this gaffe.

I don't believe you.

 

[HFCS]

Totally agree with point above. Had both teams shot anything close to a typical FG% in the first half we would have been up double digits.

Killing them on the boards, winning TO margin, taking higher percentage shots. We just couldn’t get one to drop and they were making everything.

I think the players know the tournament is the first real test and were just a little too amped up on offense, everything was just too forced and hitting the rim too strong. Also just first game away from Hilton. Tamin was the exception where his shots seemed in rhythm with a soft touch.

 

[MartyFine]

 

[madguy30]

+3.

Love this.

After all that rambling about Milan bring -15 (!?) he's not only that, he's positive.

I wOnDer wHY he PlAyEd.

 

[madguy30]

Milan is going to be much more important to this team than Watson. Better to try and have him on the court to try and figure it out than sit him on the bench where no experience is gained

Big 12 is loaded with VCU types some of which are better versions than what we saw today.

I might have cut his minutes by a few, but glad TJ left him out there for the experience

Which B12 teams have that kind of length on the perimeter?

 

[Dgilbertson]

Not really.

VCU was pretty long and athletic and that combination posed issues, especially for Milan (worst player on the floor for either team tonight). They extended their defense, communication well on rotations, and did a great job of collapsing. This, in combination with us doing very little to get open, led to some offensive issues. If it wasn't for Lipsey, really the only guy that had his **** completely together in the first half, this game would have been beyond recovery.

Milan had a REALLY hard time getting open, getting shots off, and not forcing the action. Defensively he was really bad; slow on rotations, slow with footwork, and was beaten often. I don't have the advanced stats for the game but I wouldn't be surprised if we were -15 or so when he was on the floor. It was perplexing to see Milan get these kind of minutes, while struggling, and seeing Watson get all of one minute, when he would have given us a better defender and a better athlete to help run in transition. I think this was a very poor coaching decision.

Gilbert was very timid and seemed more concerned with drawing contact in the first half. In the 2nd he was more assertive, being more focused in attacking the basket while upping his defensive intensity. As a team we were the most effective when we had the unit of C Jones, BRE, King, Lipsey, and Gilbert on the floor. BRE had a really nice offensive and defensive game but ALL of our bigs/taller players were ineffective at rebounding and blocking out. BREs hands failed him on Rebounds and loose balls during a 7 or 8 minutes stretch, while King and Biliew also buffed block outs, loose balls, and rebound corrals. Our guards, particularly Lipsey and Gilbert, really saved us on the glass.

It was a tough game, one which we sorely needed and were obviously not prepared for. In the first half the offense was stagnant, slow, and outworked while our defense and rebounding were sloppy. We came out if the half with a lot more energy and assertion, particularly on the offensive end. We won the game with Lipsey and Gilbert driving the lane, BRE playing within himself offensively (clean ups and typically well timed moves).

I can't stress how bad Milan was and how perplexing it was, given his struggles on both ends, how little Watson played. It was also weird that Jackson was put in before Watson (and played more minutes). I don't understand what Otz was thinking.

I stopped reading at bold. I’m gonna talk to you like you’re a genuine human being for a minute.

What the **** is wrong with you? You have genuinely solid observations. You do. But you routinely frame things this way.

Whoever is off/struggling/has a bad game = the worst and then it almost gets into worth/character.

Still haven’t watched the full game, but let’s say the crux of your bolded parenthetical statement is true, there are so many different and far better ways to say it.

1. VCU was pretty long and athletic and that combination posed issues, especially for Milan.
- no need to add parenthetical
2. VCU was pretty long and athletic and that combination posed issues, especially for Milan (who really struggled against his first taste of elevated competition)
…

I could give you a wall of text of more examples.

Last from me on this. Do you know you do this? Are you trying to do this? Do you want to do better or desire to change? Are you legit or is it a schtick?

 

[Dgilbertson]

I'm not bashing Milan, I'm simply commenting on his performance. You can bring the faux rage and cry all you want but it wasn't good. At all.

Again if you'd actually read I'm much more critical of Otz's allocation of minutes. He was ineffective offensively, wasn't good defensively, and didn't rebound. Why in the world was he played 27 minutes, Jackson (poor matchup athletically) 5, and Watson 1?

What if, and listen to me on this, Otz has a reason for doing so?

What if Milan is one of the most purely talented shooters ever to come through Iowa State, has gotten off to an amazing start as a freshman, but still has areas to improve upon, to grow through and learn from coaching?

I’m not even speculating that MM isn’t actively receiving coaching and feedback, but let’s say he’s like an avg young stud athlete. It’s possible for a young athlete to start buying his hype. Letting a player face, fight through, and have tape of adversity is a growth moment.

It’s also a confidence boost to stick with a young fr star to let him fight through his first non-a-plus game.

Is it possible ZRF, I know it’s not likely, but is it possible, that TJ has a reason, is focused on long-term goals for his players and this team, and this last one is a long shot, but may know more about his players and coaching Iowa State basketball than you do?

Think on it. I’d genuinely love to read your novelistic response.

 

[Dgilbertson]

First game away from Hilton, we struggled but won and people are ******** about it. Guys this is a very good but not great team. If you think we are going to win the conference, it just is not happening this year, but they will make the tournament, and win a game or two. That is about all you can ask from this team, now next year, if we keep everyone and add the players that are red shirting and the recruits, can be a special year.

It's like the football team, lets enjoy what we have, because it's only going to get better.

Honestly think you’re underestimating this team, by a lot.

What you describe as their ceiling was achieved the past two years by much less talented, and far more deficient offensive teams.

Additionally, whether it’s talent, length, athleticism, I’ve seen enough to say this team is better at team defense than the prev two Otz iterations.

Size and depth at each position, ability to rotate (on court and substitutionally) is keeping the team out of foul trouble.

Individuals fouling out and putting the other team at the line was a weakness in years past. To the point it almost seemed like our intentional strategy.

Seems like Otz is taking after Floyd’s approach this year when it comes to the foul line.

 

[Dgilbertson]

Upon watching highlights, Tamin looks and is playing like a seasoned Sr Big 12 leader.

That’s a grown man doing grown man things.

 

[Dgilbertson]

 

[Cyclonepride]

+3.

Yep. Milan's presence meant VCU couldn't help off him, and the coach's second half game plan basically used Lipsey and Gilbert attacking the paint off Big Rob's screens while Milan held a defender out of the play

 

[bizzle]

King McClure has definitely continued to grow as a commentator. His first season was the 2-22 season and it has been nice to see him get better on pace with the Cyclones.

 

[trevn]

What if, and listen to me on this, Otz has a reason for doing so?

What if Milan is one of the most purely talented shooters ever to come through Iowa State, has gotten off to an amazing start as a freshman, but still has areas to improve upon, to grow through and learn from coaching?

I’m not even speculating that MM isn’t actively receiving coaching and feedback, but let’s say he’s like an avg young stud athlete. It’s possible for a young athlete to start buying his hype. Letting a player face, fight through, and have tape of adversity is a growth moment.

It’s also a confidence boost to stick with a young fr star to let him fight through his first non-a-plus game.

Is it possible ZRF, I know it’s not likely, but is it possible, that TJ has a reason, is focused on long-term goals for his players and this team, and this last one is a long shot, but may know more about his players and coaching Iowa State basketball than you do?

Think on it. I’d genuinely love to read your novelistic response.

It takes a lot of confidence to not only assume you’re the smartest person in this room, but all other rooms and everything outside every room ever made.

Is confidence the right word?

 

[Stormin]

I'm not bashing Milan, I'm simply commenting on his performance. You can bring the faux rage and cry all you want but it wasn't good. At all.

Again if you'd actually read I'm much more critical of Otz's allocation of minutes. He was ineffective offensively, wasn't good defensively, and didn't rebound. Why in the world was he played 27 minutes, Jackson (poor matchup athletically) 5, and Watson 1?

TJ did fantastic and the players as well to overcome the adversity and register a tough one. We would have lost by 30 without TJ as Coach. So thankful we got out of the dumpster fire we were in just a few years ago.

Can not believe there are still TJ haters. Last guy we had as Coach starting new dumpster fire. So thankful for TJ.

 

[LarryISU]

That Belle guy was 4-20fg, 0-8 3pt entering the game.

He had his career high points. Also note, against lesser competition VCU has shot 28% from 3 this year before yesterday. Against ISU, over 43%. I kept saying to my brother these guys have to be having their one freak shooting day of the year. Turns out they were.

 

[singsing]

Rob Jones has improved his game enough I can see him playing professionally after this year.

 

[NWICY]

Has he suggested calling a timeout after an ISU made basket to stop one of our own runs?

I almost had those memories blocked, damn you for bringing them to the forefront of my brain again. Weirdest coaching choice ever, and he would do it every time.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

You may want to delete the first part...folks will run with that narrative all day.

He gone.