J'Vonne Hadley (Curtis Jones' cousin) to have zoom meetings with Iowa State & MSU this week

[Nor'easter]

The system is broken at this point. I’ll keep contributing, but us smaller donors start to wonder how much benefit we are having.

Two things that would help:

1. Get JP to sell Ames Lager in JT and Hilton.
2. Get Ames Lager to distribute to other cities with Cyclone fans. KC, Minneapolis, St. Louis

It's kinda BS that the AD started licensing Iowa State branded beer out to these breweries just as Ames Lager started being a thing... I don't recall the timeline which came first the lager or the IPA? But why did they wait til NIL was a thing to start letting breweries make ISU branded beer? I'm sure they weren't intentionally trying to take sales away from Ames Lager but there definitely was and has been confusion as to which beers go to NIL.

 

[clone96cr]

Jaz Kunc says hi

He committed in March 2021

 

[madguy30]

Jaz Kunc says hi

Did Brockington not come from a P6 school?

This isn't at you...we're back to hyperbole season.

 

[madguy30]

He committed in March 2021

But he stayed right? And came back? And wasn't it somewhat a foregone conclusion that it was going to happen?

 

[clone96cr]

Did Brockington not come from a P6 school?

This isn't at you...we're back to hyperbole season.

Yes and Gabe and Tristen. All before NIL was approved (and well before WeWill). My point was I’m not concerned about not getting Hadley. P6 transfers command more money. We have done well getting transfer guys stepping up from lower competition.

 

[AuH2O]

Jefferson would be a great fit for Iowa State. St Mary’s was top 5 in defensive efficiency this year. Jefferson started in 26 games, averaging 25 minutes per game, so was a big part of helping that team achieve that distinction.

That’s what I’m thinking. Jefferson seems like a great fit. STM was really good defensively, and I get that it’s the WCC, but that is pretty good offensive production given their style.

 

[AuH2O]

You just never know what a player is looking for. Are they okay playing for a bubble team (UVa) if they can play 35 minutes a game? Or would they prefer playing ~20 minutes a game for a Top 10 team?

I know the focus is $$$ these days, but I still think there's a lot more that goes into that decision - and in the portal they have to make it SO fast, especially compared to HS recruiting. It's gotta be hell on those players to try to figure out who is telling the truth, where they will fit best, etc in basically no time at all

And let’s be real, we don’t really know what figures are being thrown out there. There are definitely a few big deals out there, but I don’t buy this is some stable market that makes any kind of sense. People are extrapolating a ton based on a bit of real information.

And I get there’s a lot of people throwing out how they know 100% what kind of deals are being offered. These are almost entirely verbal things until there’s an agreement in principal. Collectives or direct donors/boosters aren’t sending some written official offer.

It takes no effort and there’s no repercussions for throwing out that schools are talking about $X deals to try to get more from your current school or other suitors.

People might be in the know, but ultimately the sourcing comes down mostly to taking a players word on something where there is all upside and no downside or risk to stretch, BS or maybe hear what they want hear in terms of offers.

 

[enisthemenace]

And let’s be real, we don’t really know what figures are being thrown out there. There are definitely a few big deals out there, but I don’t buy this is some stable market that makes any kind of sense. People are extrapolating a ton based on a bit of real information.

And I get there’s a lot of people throwing out how they know 100% what kind of deals are being offered. These are almost entirely verbal things until there’s an agreement in principal. Collectives or direct donors/boosters aren’t sending some written official offer.

It takes no effort and there’s no repercussions for throwing out that schools are talking about $X deals to try to get more from your current school or other suitors.

People might be in the know, but ultimately the sourcing comes down mostly to taking a players word on something where there is all upside and no downside or risk to stretch, BS or maybe hear what they want hear in terms of offers.

While this may be true, from what I hear, Hadley (for example) wanted to come to Iowa State. That was his preference. And by all indications, he was set to commit. At the 11th hour, another school (we’ll see which one) was said to swoop in and offer him a huge “NiL” package (let’s be honest…it’s not NiL). He came to the staff to let them know, and we said we couldn’t (or wouldn’t?) match it, so he did not commit to Iowa State. Why would he bluff TJ and Iowa State to see if he could get more in Ames? I think that is really far fetched, so helps the belief in some of the numbers being thrown around.

On the surface, not landing Hadley isn’t the end of the world. I wanted him because the staff wanted him and I think he would have been a great fit. However, if Hadley is getting even close to the numbers being thrown around, it could signal a much bigger issue.

We’ll see.

 

[Jer]

And let’s be real, we don’t really know what figures are being thrown out there. There are definitely a few big deals out there, but I don’t buy this is some stable market that makes any kind of sense. People are extrapolating a ton based on a bit of real information.

And I get there’s a lot of people throwing out how they know 100% what kind of deals are being offered. These are almost entirely verbal things until there’s an agreement in principal. Collectives or direct donors/boosters aren’t sending some written official offer.

It takes no effort and there’s no repercussions for throwing out that schools are talking about $X deals to try to get more from your current school or other suitors.

People might be in the know, but ultimately the sourcing comes down mostly to taking a players word on something where there is all upside and no downside or risk to stretch, BS or maybe hear what they want hear in terms of offers.

I completely understand the viewpoint, and on it's surface it makes complete sense. However, you're forgetting that a lot of student athletes communicate primarily through text and there is no risk of a paper trail in these things any longer. Furthermore, it's a **** measuring contest for players and donors to be able to show and prove amounts as bragging rights. It all seems dumb AF, but that's the reality.

 

[AuH2O]

While this may be true, from what I hear, Hadley (for example) wanted to come to Iowa State. That was his preference. And by all indications, he was set to commit. At the 11th hour, another school (we’ll see which one) was said to swoop in and offer him a huge “NiL” package (let’s be honest…it’s not NiL). He came to the staff to let them know, and we said we couldn’t (or wouldn’t?) match it, so he did not commit to Iowa State. Why would he bluff TJ and Iowa State to see if he could get more in Ames? I think that is really far fetched, so helps the belief in some of the numbers being thrown around.

On the surface, not landing Hadley isn’t the end of the world. I wanted him because the staff wanted him and I think he would have been a great fit. However, if Hadley is getting even close to the numbers being thrown around, it could signal a much bigger issue.

We’ll see.

I don't doubt at all that this is what happened. He probably wanted to come here, got a deal that was really good, gave ISU an opportunity to match or close the gap, and it wasn't good enough.

My bigger issue is things get thrown out about "offers" for players not in the portal. If a kid at ISU tells the staff or We Will that schools are throwing offers of $500 or $800k to go into the portal, are they going to say "show me proof?" I'm sure that there are lot of texts out there with some big dollars thrown out that are legit. I'm also certain there's a whole bunch of ******** getting thrown out to drive up numbers.

I'm just saying that if the market is REMOTELY real using numbers floated out there, then as an example ISU has guys that have market values alone that probably consume most of our entire collective individually. And when I say the market is real, it's not extrapolating value based on a handful of guys in the portal supposedly getting $X, particularly those that are willing to go about anywhere and discount fit, playing time and role.

The market is either wildly spotty to the point of not really being a market, or there are tons of guys across college basketball turning down hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's just simple math. If a bench guy at ISU is worth a few hundred thousand, what are some of these really good players worth? A lot of guys transfer, but in the grand scheme of things, a majority of good players come back to their schools, and a lot of them do not have huge NIL targeted at basketball. If we believe that remotely most of the dollars floated out there are real, we by necessity must believe that there are tons and tons of players across college basketball turning down hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay at their less-NIL rich schools.

 

[bosco]

I don't doubt at all that this is what happened. He probably wanted to come here, got a deal that was really good, gave ISU an opportunity to match or close the gap, and it wasn't good enough.

My bigger issue is things get thrown out about "offers" for players not in the portal. If a kid at ISU tells the staff or We Will that schools are throwing offers of $500 or $800k to go into the portal, are they going to say "show me proof?" I'm sure that there are lot of texts out there with some big dollars thrown out that are legit. I'm also certain there's a whole bunch of ******** getting thrown out to drive up numbers.

I'm just saying that if the market is REMOTELY real using numbers floated out there, then as an example ISU has guys that have market values alone that probably consume most of our entire collective individually. And when I say the market is real, it's not extrapolating value based on a handful of guys in the portal supposedly getting $X, particularly those that are willing to go about anywhere and discount fit, playing time and role.

The market is either wildly spotty to the point of not really being a market, or there are tons of guys across college basketball turning down hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's just simple math. If a bench guy at ISU is worth a few hundred thousand, what are some of these really good players worth? A lot of guys transfer, but in the grand scheme of things, a majority of good players come back to their schools, and a lot of them do not have huge NIL targeted at basketball. If we believe that remotely most of the dollars floated out there are real, we by necessity must believe that there are tons and tons of players across college basketball turning down hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay at their less-NIL rich schools.

The numbers might be so high it's s no brainier to not match but I like that we are not "over paying" for players.

 

[Marcelason78]

The numbers might be so high it's s no brainier to not match but I like that we are not "over paying" for players.

The average CF fan will never know with current level of NIL transparency.

 

[AuH2O]

The numbers might be so high it's s no brainier to not match but I like that we are not "over paying" for players.

Sure, but if the numbers are consistently that high for guys that are out there, we have guys on our roster (and a lot of college rosters) worth north of $1M. So there's a bunch of guys throughout college that are turning down hundreds of thousands of dollars, or it's just a case of a handful of oddball deals that can't be translated to an actual market.

It's sort of like the saying about value or market being whatever someone is willing to pay. That's kind of a dumb oversimplification that ignores the fact that in certain situation outliers occur that cannot be translated to the broader market, certainly in a new market/industry.

Some of these college deals are like Ryan Tannehill or Deshaun Watson deals on steroids. The fact that there was a situation where 3% of the teams were willing to sign a deal that the other 97% would never dream of, does not a market make. There's a reason that right after those deals were done, far better players were signing fare worse deals. Those deals happened, but they were outliers that did not give a real indication of the broader market. And consider that the NFL market and salary cap makes it about 1000x more stable than NIL.

That's what I think is going on with NIL. It's still pretty new, the NIL $ are still coming in and uncertain, and while there are a lot of guys in the portal, it's still a very small percentage of players.

We hear things thrown out like "the going rate for a starting [insert FB or basketball position here] at the power conference level is $X00,000. The problem is the math in nonsense. You take every statement like that, apply those supposed market values to all the starting guys at power conference schools in FB and MBB, and it's not in the same planet as the $NIL out there.

It's not a market yet. It's just a bunch of one off and random noise that people are trying to assign to a market.

 

[qwerty]

I don't doubt at all that this is what happened. He probably wanted to come here, got a deal that was really good, gave ISU an opportunity to match or close the gap, and it wasn't good enough.

My bigger issue is things get thrown out about "offers" for players not in the portal. If a kid at ISU tells the staff or We Will that schools are throwing offers of $500 or $800k to go into the portal, are they going to say "show me proof?" I'm sure that there are lot of texts out there with some big dollars thrown out that are legit. I'm also certain there's a whole bunch of ******** getting thrown out to drive up numbers.

I'm just saying that if the market is REMOTELY real using numbers floated out there, then as an example ISU has guys that have market values alone that probably consume most of our entire collective individually. And when I say the market is real, it's not extrapolating value based on a handful of guys in the portal supposedly getting $X, particularly those that are willing to go about anywhere and discount fit, playing time and role.

The market is either wildly spotty to the point of not really being a market, or there are tons of guys across college basketball turning down hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's just simple math. If a bench guy at ISU is worth a few hundred thousand, what are some of these really good players worth? A lot of guys transfer, but in the grand scheme of things, a majority of good players come back to their schools, and a lot of them do not have huge NIL targeted at basketball. If we believe that remotely most of the dollars floated out there are real, we by necessity must believe that there are tons and tons of players across college basketball turning down hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay at their less-NIL rich schools.

On the flip side, if EVERY player in CBB received their perceived maximum NIL value (whether that value was accurate or not), the entire NIL market would probably be 5-10X larger. Some players discount their NIL to accommodate fit, style, school preference, etc. Thus Milan might be worth $400k on open market but is willing to stay at ISU for $150k, on down the roster. Yes, that still means $1M+ for the team, but it is a $4-5M valued team.

And you can't really blame those players that are attempting to obtain maximum NIL value, as it might be their best or only time to get that kind of money and a head start on life. It sucks, but many of us would do the same.

 

[jsb]

I completely understand the viewpoint, and on it's surface it makes complete sense. However, you're forgetting that a lot of student athletes communicate primarily through text and there is no risk of a paper trail in these things any longer. Furthermore, it's a **** measuring contest for players and donors to be able to show and prove amounts as bragging rights. It all seems dumb AF, but that's the reality.

Do kids really text much any more? I thought they were snap chatting

 

[Jer]

Do kids really text much any more? I thought they were snap chatting

I've seen everything from Instagram to Snapchat to DMs, etc. I don't use any of those types of apps so am always guessing what app it is

 

[ZorkClone]

On the flip side, if EVERY player in CBB received their perceived maximum NIL value (whether that value was accurate or not), the entire NIL market would probably be 5-10X larger. Some players discount their NIL to accommodate fit, style, school preference, etc. Thus Milan might be worth $400k on open market but is willing to stay at ISU for $150k, on down the roster. Yes, that still means $1M+ for the team, but it is a $4-5M valued team.

And you can't really blame those players that are attempting to obtain maximum NIL value, as it might be their best or only time to get that kind of money and a head start on life. It sucks, but many of us would do the same.

Maybe I’m too money focused, but are people really willing to turn down a 2.6x pay raise just to play on our team? I feeling these numbers that are thrown out are not close to what is getting paid. Otherwise we would probably have no NIL money for our football team, cause it would all be spent on basketball.

 

[Bestaluckcy]

Maybe I’m too money focused, but are people really willing to turn down a 2.6x pay raise just to play on our team?

TJ can turn that and say look what happened to Hunter. Stick with us.

 

[qwerty]

Maybe I’m too money focused, but are people really willing to turn down a 2.6x pay raise just to play on our team? I feeling these numbers that are thrown out are not close to what is getting paid. Otherwise we would probably have no NIL money for our football team, cause it would all be spent on basketball.

I have no idea what our players NIL is, I was just throwing out a hypothetical.

And it comes down to when is enough, enough.

 

[Jer]

TJ can turn that and say look what happened to Hunter. Stick with us.

Omaha did. We have a lot of pluses to sell a kid on, especially along the development and prep for the NBA side of things. If a kid knows he won't play in the NBA, he'd be stupid not to follow the NIL money. If he has aspirations of the NBA, development, playing time, etc all become big factors.