When do you think you will buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

[nrg4isu]

Currently, people driving all electric vehicles are using our roads and bridges for free. That simply isn't fair. I know I've opened myself up to all kinds of comments about saving the planet, but we also have to save our roads as well unless we decide to establish a toll on all local, state and federal roads. If you have a plan for this that will pass the legislative process, please let me know.

I've just been appointed to a commission to study this. I'm listening.

You asked for ideas. Here's one. Remove the gas tax all together and add it to sales tax. ALL of us benefit from our roads regardless of whether or not we drive on them. Of course heavy vehicles should have more restrictions/fees like they currently do, but gas tax doesn't make any sense. Simplify tax code.

 

[BCClone]

They settled on charging us double what I used to pay in gas tax a year. I guess we have to try and prop up stupid ethanol more and penalize people that don't use it.

That charge is what about 1k miles a month would be. You only drive 6000 miles a year?

 

[Clonehomer]

You asked for ideas. Here's one. Remove the gas tax all together and add it to sales tax. ALL of us benefit from our roads regardless of whether or not we drive on them. Of course heavy vehicles should have more restrictions/fees like they currently do, but gas tax doesn't make any sense. Simplify tax code.

Heavier goods would have more impact on roads than lighter goods. But the cost of goods is not directly correlated to the weight. So a sales tax would not have revenue track equal to the impact on our roads.

 

[BCClone]

You asked for ideas. Here's one. Remove the gas tax all together and add it to sales tax. ALL of us benefit from our roads regardless of whether or not we drive on them. Of course heavy vehicles should have more restrictions/fees like they currently do, but gas tax doesn't make any sense. Simplify tax code.

Gas tax is a sales tax. You don’t buy it you don’t pay it.

 

[BCClone]

Heavier goods would have more impact on roads than lighter goods. But the cost of goods is not directly correlated to the weight. So a sales tax would not have revenue track equal to the impact on our roads.

License fees hit there. Heavier the truck license the more expensive it is.

 

[nrg4isu]

Gas tax is a sales tax. You don’t buy it you don’t pay it.

I'm saying that roads are a universally important of our society. Everything that has sales tax should share the burden of paying for the roads, not just gas specifically.

 

[CascadeClone]

You asked for ideas. Here's one. Remove the gas tax all together and add it to sales tax. ALL of us benefit from our roads regardless of whether or not we drive on them. Of course heavy vehicles should have more restrictions/fees like they currently do, but gas tax doesn't make any sense. Simplify tax code.

Eliminate income tax entirely and replace with a consumption tax. Combine with a phased out UBI payment to cover the consumption tax on the first $50k-ish of spend to make it progressive. Slash the IRS and spend that money on the space program.

(ducks)

 

[Clonehomer]

Eliminate income tax entirely and replace with a consumption tax. Combine with a phased out UBI payment to cover the consumption tax on the first $50k-ish of spend to make it progressive. Slash the IRS and spend that money on the space program.

(ducks)

Issue with consumption tax isn’t just about that first $50k. How do you handle the next $50k? Should 50,001st dollar be taxed the same as the 50,000,001st dollar? A progressive tax isn’t just for the low income. There’s a ramp up for the middle class as well until you reach the highest tax bracket for the high income earners.

So let’s just leave the gas tax alone and figure out how to handle EV’s in the future as they gain market share. Eventually, you’ll need to develop a way to tax based on weight and annual mileage in a way similar to what the gas tax does today. Maybe that’s putting special electrical meters in garages that have EV hookups to pay a tax on the power used. Similar to how people get separate water meters for their sprinkler system to avoid paying sewer fees on water used.

 

[TXCyclones]

I saw this story earlier and was struck by how individual bias is conveyed into topics and essentially ruins such well intended improvements. Rural America is dying yet simultaneously killing progress.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brand-electric-bus-no-charge-114102258.html

 

[dmclone]

I saw this story earlier and was struck by how individual bias is conveyed into topics and essentially ruins such well intended improvements. Rural America is dying yet simultaneously killing progress.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brand-electric-bus-no-charge-114102258.html

It will work out over time. In the late 80's, my family lived in small town iowa and driving any Japanese car was very rare and you heard these same type of comments. You go back to that same town and they are everywhere. A pickup like the Ford lightning being great is very important. All it takes is one guy in town buying one, having a good experience, and others will follow.

Although Ethanol and politicians will do everything they can to slow the progress.

 

[CascadeClone]

View attachment 131158

Issue with consumption tax isn’t just about that first $50k. How do you handle the next $50k? Should 50,001st dollar be taxed the same as the 50,000,001st dollar? A progressive tax isn’t just for the low income. There’s a ramp up for the middle class as well until you reach the highest tax bracket for the high income earners.

So let’s just leave the gas tax alone and figure out how to handle EV’s in the future as they gain market share. Eventually, you’ll need to develop a way to tax based on weight and annual mileage in a way similar to what the gas tax does today. Maybe that’s putting special electrical meters in garages that have EV hookups to pay a tax on the power used. Similar to how people get separate water meters for their sprinkler system to avoid paying sewer fees on water used.

I just threw that out as on off topic grenade for grins. Its far too complex (as you start to address) for 2 sentences.

 

[simply1]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Proton]

I’m amazed that “10 years or never” is plus 50%.

 

[nfrine]

I’m amazed that “10 years or never” is plus 50%.

Yeah. Seems low.

 

[Cyched]

Which one is the cyber truck

 

[isucy86]

I saw this story earlier and was struck by how individual bias is conveyed into topics and essentially ruins such well intended improvements. Rural America is dying yet simultaneously killing progress.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brand-electric-bus-no-charge-114102258.html

I stopped reading about 1/4 way through because I felt the NYT article & author's individual bias was looking down on the hicks in rural America. So I didn't see what possible financial/logistical objections by the town people might have.

Having the Federal Government (which is $34T in debt) pay 100% of a new bus is great, But bus acquisition isn't the only aspect of running a bus fleet.

• Locally who will maintain/repair the EV bus?
• Is it cost-effective to have a fleet of electric and ICE buses?
• The battery has a 10 year guarantee, but a bus is a 20+ year asset for most school districts. What will be the cost of battery replacement in 10-20 years?
• The Federal Government is currently buying EV buses for cities and schools- but will that grant continue? The city I live in recently received a Federal Grant to buy a couple EV city buses, each bus costs $1M+.

A new EV bus might be the right financial decision for this small town. But what if lowest lifetime cost is a diesel bus? Especially for a community only needing a few busses. And maybe 2024 is too soon. It doesn't always pay to be on the leading edge of new tech.

 

[simply1]

I stopped reading about 1/4 way through because I felt the NYT article & author's individual bias was looking down on the hicks in rural America. So I didn't see what possible financial/logistical objections by the town people might have.

Having the Federal Government (which is $34T in debt) pay 100% of a new bus is great, But bus acquisition isn't the only aspect of running a bus fleet.

• Locally who will maintain/repair the EV bus?
• Is it cost-effective to have a fleet of electric and ICE buses?
• The battery has a 10 year guarantee, but a bus is a 20+ year asset for most school districts. What will be the cost of battery replacement in 10-20 years?
• The Federal Government is currently buying EV buses for cities and schools- but will that grant continue? The city I live in recently received a Federal Grant to buy a couple EV city buses, each bus costs $1M+.

A new EV bus might be the right financial decision for this small town. But what if lowest lifetime cost is a diesel bus? Especially for a community only needing a few busses. And maybe 2024 is too soon. It doesn't always pay to be on the leading edge of new tech.

I only read about 10% of your post so I can’t help you out.

 

[TXCyclones]

I stopped reading about 1/4 way through because I felt the NYT article & author's individual bias was looking down on the hicks in rural America. So I didn't see what possible financial/logistical objections by the town people might have.

Having the Federal Government (which is $34T in debt) pay 100% of a new bus is great, But bus acquisition isn't the only aspect of running a bus fleet.

• Locally who will maintain/repair the EV bus?
• Is it cost-effective to have a fleet of electric and ICE buses?
• The battery has a 10 year guarantee, but a bus is a 20+ year asset for most school districts. What will be the cost of battery replacement in 10-20 years?
• The Federal Government is currently buying EV buses for cities and schools- but will that grant continue? The city I live in recently received a Federal Grant to buy a couple EV city buses, each bus costs $1M+.

A new EV bus might be the right financial decision for this small town. But what if lowest lifetime cost is a diesel bus? Especially for a community only needing a few busses. And maybe 2024 is too soon. It doesn't always pay to be on the leading edge of new tech.

I read 100% of your post and I'm 99% sure I understand why that article hurt your feelings, and I'm 80% you would fit right in with the citizens of that decaying town described in the remaining 3/4 of the article you didn't read.

 

[VeloClone]

I stopped reading about 1/4 way through because I felt the NYT article & author's individual bias was looking down on the hicks in rural America. So I didn't see what possible financial/logistical objections by the town people might have.

Having the Federal Government (which is $34T in debt) pay 100% of a new bus is great, But bus acquisition isn't the only aspect of running a bus fleet.

• Locally who will maintain/repair the EV bus?
• Is it cost-effective to have a fleet of electric and ICE buses?
• The battery has a 10 year guarantee, but a bus is a 20+ year asset for most school districts. What will be the cost of battery replacement in 10-20 years?
• The Federal Government is currently buying EV buses for cities and schools- but will that grant continue? The city I live in recently received a Federal Grant to buy a couple EV city buses, each bus costs $1M+.

A new EV bus might be the right financial decision for this small town. But what if lowest lifetime cost is a diesel bus? Especially for a community only needing a few busses. And maybe 2024 is too soon. It doesn't always pay to be on the leading edge of new tech.

Are you serious? Yes, they may only get 10 years out of the bus rather than 20, but they are paying NOTHING for the bus. And to operate it the initial outlay would at worst be installing a new 50 amp circuit for the charger. What does a shorter life matter if you are delaying having to pay for a new bus for 10 years?

And does it matter to this school district if the federal government doesn't buy future buses? That won't change the fact that they can get a bus that they desperately need today for no cost.

You can't be serious...

 

[nfrine]

Which one is the cyber truck

View attachment 131186

Pretty good thinking. When you are waiting for a charge, at least you know there's a bathroom available.