Any Electricians?

zmjames6

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My daughter got a new light fixture for Christmas to replace an existing ceiling fan. Been having some issue figuring out how to get it wired, but thought I finally figured it out. However, when the light switch is off, the light still has an extremely dim glow, so not sure what the issue is. i did a quick diagram to show how I did the wiring setup as it was a bit complicated. Any suggestions on what I may have done wrong or what changes I should make? One thing I will likely do is just remove all wires that went to the fan switch, but I don't see this solving the issue with the dim glow. Thanks!
 

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BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
My daughter got a new light fixture for Christmas to replace an existing ceiling fan. Been having some issue figuring out how to get it wired, but thought I finally figured it out. However, when the light switch is off, the light still has an extremely dim glow, so not sure what the issue is. i did a quick diagram to show how I did the wiring setup as it was a bit complicated. Any suggestions on what I may have done wrong or what changes I should make? One thing I will likely do is just remove all wires that went to the fan switch, but I don't see this solving the issue with the dim glow. Thanks!
Get a tester and check of your ground has juice and then connect one wire at a time and see if you get juice at anytime. That will tell you your wrong connection
 
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CYDJ

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Are the bulbs led by chance and are you using any kind of dinner?
 

CYDJ

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Yes they are LED lights and no dimmer.
Ok some dimmers have enough leakage that LEDs don't shut off completely. Not sure if there could be a problem without dimmer. I tried to track down a problem like yours until I figured out it was a dimmer.

Maybe try replacing the led bulbs with incandescents and see if the leak goes away before you rip any wiring out. It probably won't work, but worth a shot.
 

Nick

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Based on your diagram, looks like you're switching the neutral? This is super dangerous - switches should be on the hot wires and not on the neutral (otherwise the bulb socket is still receiving power even if the switch is off).

The light should be wired directly to the neutral, and then run your hot wire through the switch back to the light.
 

VTXCyRyD

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Not an electrician, but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn. You need to get someone who knows what they're doing. Like Nick mentioned, the neutral switching isn't good and the diagram shows the light should only work if both the fan and light switch is on.

My guess is the dim glow is there because the hot is always hot due to the neutral switch side.
 

CYDJ

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Based on your diagram, looks like you're switching the neutral? This is super dangerous - switches should be on the hot wires and not on the neutral (otherwise the bulb socket is still receiving power even if the switch is off).



The light should be wired directly to the neutral, and then run your hot wire through the switch back to the light.

Nick is right here. Are you sure you have all the wires depicted correctly?

(In this case, I am assuming you meant to call the big yellow thing the fan/light AND you have depicted ALL the wires going from the light to the light box and then to the switches.)

It seems what you are showing is switched neutral as Nick says that is "maybe" turned on and off with the light switch and then either switched on and off with the fan switch or regulated by a "dimmer" of some sort, like many fan "switches" are.

UNLESS this is a new kind of fan that has some sort of information running between the light and fan switches and the light on neutral (they would need batteries to accomplish this in this case I think,) then this is wired in a way that doesn't accomplish much but double switching the neutral which is bad in at least two ways.

Are you positive there and not 2 sets of white, black and copper running to the switch box? OR are there any red wires that make it back to the light box? Can you take a good picture of both the fan box and the switch box? That would help orient us and possibly determine what is really going on here.

Just a background note:
A lot of circuits wired like this use a "switch loop". That is where one Romex line is run from the fixture box (light box in your case) to the switch box. Then the white conductor is wrapped with black electrical tape on both ends. The white (with black electrical tape) is connected to the black conductor (hot) in the fixture box and one side of the light switch. Then the black conductor is connected to the black conductor of the light. That is the "switch loop". It is JUST carrying the hot leg to the switch box to be switched. Everything else stays in the fixture box.

Further note:
Somewhere along the way we started connecting switches (or their metal boxes) in houses to ground as well. It has been that way a lot longer in commercial establishments. This may not be the case in your situation based on when the last wiring was completed to code. However, it appears you have a ground and that you should then make sure it is connected to the switch in the switch box OR its metal box to ground in the fixture box.


It seems in this case you would need 2 switch loops to properly make the light and fan work independently from the wall. IF it is possible that the fixture in question was not a fan at some point and ONLY a light, I would suggest you have encountered a non-electrically inclined person installing something they should not have. I have literally run into this twice. It can be easily fixed with a fan that is just given power (either directly OR through the switch loop) and controlled with a remote control or battery operated wall mounted controller. I actually have one of these in one of my rental apartments. Problem is the controller can bet misplaced. ha!

If you send some pics, I think we can give your electrician some theoretical advice on which way to go.
 

Cyclone06

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Any electricians want to add an outlet for me? We have an outlet about two foot off the floor and we want to add one directly above that, which would be above counter height. My guess is an hours worth of work. I will pay to make it worth the time.
 

BCClone

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Any electricians want to add an outlet for me? We have an outlet about two foot off the floor and we want to add one directly above that, which would be above counter height. My guess is an hours worth of work. I will pay to make it worth the time.
Trip the breaker, cut a hole in the wall and feed down to the old outlet. This one should be an easy one. Unless your wiring is 80 years old and it’s all black or white. I had that happen once wiring an outside set up. Throwing that breaker and watching the arc was an experience. Obviously I had it backwards the first time.
 

zmjames6

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CYDJ - Thanks for the comments. A couple of things to clarify.

  1. A fan was previously installed, now switching to just a light fixture. So really no need for the fan switch at all and am just going to remove the hot connection from that switch all together.
  2. Yes the yellow circle is supposed to be the light fixture.
  3. I can confirm that there is only one set of wires running to the switch box. It has a ground, neutral, hot, and red. The red does go into the light box, but it is capped with a wire nut.
  4. Looks like it was setup to be a switch loop, so probably need to make sure it is set up the right way, which it is definitely not currently.
  5. I will try to snap a couple of photos later today. I think I at least have an idea of how it should be wired now as a switch loop though.
Thanks for your help so far trying to get this figured out.
 

IcSyU

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Any electricians want to add an outlet for me? We have an outlet about two foot off the floor and we want to add one directly above that, which would be above counter height. My guess is an hours worth of work. I will pay to make it worth the time.
That must include drive time because that's about a 15 minute job if you have an ounce of an idea what you're doing.
 
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Cyclone06

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That must include drive time because that's about a 15 minute job if you have an ounce of an idea what you're doing.
Ha. Well I am wanting to be generous to get it done. :) Electrical is not something I am going to take a shot at, and those Ive spoken to are too busy or its not a big enough deal for them to make the time.
 

zmjames6

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Here is how I think it should actually be set up now after the comments you gave me.
 

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