Bates vs Arnaud

[ISUclones33]

I was in no way saying, Play him so he doesnt transfer. I was saying, I hope he can be successful so that we can keep him on board for many different reasons, Recruiting purposes is one huge one. If you ask one of many of this years recruits, they were hosted by Phil, and would tell you that Phil played a big part in their coming to ISU. He is a guy we want on the team so i hope to see him stay active this year, IMO he is the bigger threat. But it is possible that AA takes over fully, and that wouldnt go over to well with phil.

Clarified?

 

[Bobber]

I remember a few years ago Major Applewhite and Chris Simms had similar issues down at Texas. Both were decent quarterbacks and I think Applewhite had to give up his starting postion Simms. I always liked Applewhite and thought he was a good soilder and didn't seem to complain or move on when Simms got his job.

 

[jaretac]

I can see why it's a tough call for Coach Chizik. Arnaud seems to make less mistakes and has a strong arm. Bates however has a good arm too and can beat you with his feet. He really reminds me of Seneca Wallace.

He kindof reminded me of Seneca Wallace too, except without the arm.

I think what we are seeing with Arnaud/ Bates is similar to what we saw happen in Green Bay this year. Arnaud, though a good QB, he is a remnant of the old coaching staff and the old system. Bates is the style QB that Chizik is looking for, but he is not as good of a QB. Chizik will maintain this two QB system until Bates wins the position. If the roles were reversed, Arnaud would be sitting on the side line almost the entire time instead of splitting time with Bates. This is one of the areas that I disagree with Chizik on, but that is what is happening.

 

[ahaselhu]

Bates definitely has playmaking ability. I don't agree with comparisons (at this early point of the season) to Seneca Wallace however. Wallace was calm and under control when he ran. When Bates was running, it really seemed like he was trying too hard and trying to be "spectacular", instead of just taking what was available.

I thought that Arnaud showed leadership, a good throwing arm, and decisiveness. Bates also showed a good arm, threw a great fade route to SJ, and demonstrated his exceptional athletic ability.

Personally, I think Arnaud's confidence and leadership gives us a better chance to win than Bates' athleticism right now. Bates may be able to give us a spectacular play here and there, but I believe that Arnaud is more capable of the consistent play that is needed from the QB position, at this point.

 

[CF_Cyclone]

I believe that AA will be the starter, he is a better leader and reads the defense better. I am not worried about PB transferring, he came to us because he would get a chance to play QB. He will probably remain at QB this year and next year if Tiller continues to progress, after his rs year he will be the backup and they will look to move PB to a different position, unless Bates takes on an improve leadership role over the season.

 

[Clones85']

I know a lot wont agree with me here, but I think Bates is a better runner than Wallace. I think he is faster and has better moves.

But I don't think he is nearly the passer. Few are

 

[06_CY]

I remember a few years ago Major Applewhite and Chris Simms had similar issues down at Texas. Both were decent quarterbacks and I think Applewhite had to give up his starting postion Simms. I always liked Applewhite and thought he was a good soilder and didn't seem to complain or move on when Simms got his job.

I though Applewhite was the much better QB, but Simms got it by name recognition...

So to summarize what your saying 33: If AA completely beats out PB, PB is going to "take his ball and go home?" Well, this is college football and competition NEEDS to happen at all positions. If he gets beat out, don't cry about it, work harder to win the spot. :wideeyed:

 

[Covenant Clone]

I believe that AA will be the starter, he is a better leader and reads the defense better. I am not worried about PB transferring, he came to us because he would get a chance to play QB. He will probably remain at QB this year and next year if Tiller continues to progress, after his rs year he will be the backup and they will look to move PB to a different position, unless Bates takes on an improve leadership role over the season.

I'm not sure I would say that AA is a better leader or that he reads the defense better than PB. We only have a very small sample against a 1AA opponent and AA had some experience playing last year. I agree with some of the posts on this thread that PB is going to end up being a better QB (IMHO). Have a debate about which QB is better is a very nice problem to have.

 

[cycloneman003]

bates ran for what? 50+ yards or something? and he didnt get that many chances... that one rushing TD he had called back was something special. think AA manages the game better, but bates gives up the potential to score on every play

 

[D UP Clones]

I've held off from saying this, but some of you are frankly blind.

Arnaud- very good passer, and controls the game, faster than just about everybody gives him credit for on this board.

Bates- where to start? I can count three plays that I thought he looked good in, the Iowa game last year (one play), the fade route, and the one option where he ran up field hard. The rest of his plays he either has looked confused or thinks he will be able to start and stop. That stopping stuff is junior high material and will get him killed against a good defense. See the option where he stopped and fumbled.

I hope Bates improves, but he right now is not even close to being the quarterback Arnaud is.

PS pay attention to the ball when they both throw it. One wobbles big time and one doesn't.

 

[D UP Clones]

no his talent level is not on another level. He is not Seneca Wallace. Anybody suggesting that is clueless.

I've never seen a player do so little and have so many great things said about him.

And if Phil is suggesting he will leave if he is not the quarterback, then part ways now. He doesn't care about ISU or the team.

I've known players who threatened to leave if they didn't get what they want. They were not leaders of anyone.

 

[Covenant Clone]

no his talent level is not on another level. He is not Seneca Wallace. Anybody suggesting that is clueless.

I've never seen a player do so little and have so many great things said about him.

And if Phil is suggesting he will leave if he is not the quarterback, then part ways now. He doesn't care about ISU or the team.

I've known players who threatened to leave if they didn't get what they want. They were not leaders of anyone.

I agree that he isn't Seneca but in my opinion AA hasn't done much either to "have so many great things said about him" I am going to put my faith in the coaching staff, but I will stay that PB needs to be on the field in some way or another, he is just to good of an athlete.

 

[gocubs2118]

no his talent level is not on another level. He is not Seneca Wallace. Anybody suggesting that is clueless.

I've never seen a player do so little and have so many great things said about him.

And if Phil is suggesting he will leave if he is not the quarterback, then part ways now. He doesn't care about ISU or the team.

I've known players who threatened to leave if they didn't get what they want. They were not leaders of anyone.

And what has AA done to get all of the great words that you just gave him?

 

[D UP Clones]

And what has AA done to get all of the great words that you just gave him?

Uh, he actually played the position last year and did very well. He also throws a good ball. That is obvious. That is about all I said.

What's interesting is that is much more than people can say about Bates who probably has negative rushing yardage for his career when you look at last season too.

I hope Bates plays better, but right now he has done very little and I emphasize the "very."

And if I were 33 I wouldn't post that he might leave if not named the quarterback. It makes him look very bad even if it is true.

 

[lennon3]

I've held off from saying this, but some of you are frankly blind.

Arnaud- very good passer, and controls the game, faster than just about everybody gives him credit for on this board.

Bates- where to start? I can count three plays that I thought he looked good in, the Iowa game last year (one play), the fade route, and the one option where he ran up field hard. The rest of his plays he either has looked confused or thinks he will be able to start and stop. That stopping stuff is junior high material and will get him killed against a good defense. See the option where he stopped and fumbled.

I hope Bates improves, but he right now is not even close to being the quarterback Arnaud is.

PS pay attention to the ball when they both throw it. One wobbles big time and one doesn't.

Would you put all of our coaching staff in the blind category, considering they haven't even been able to name a full time starter yet then?

 

[D UP Clones]

Would you put all of our coaching staff in the blind category, considering they haven't even been able to name a full time starter yet then?

What's funny is I think they have. Bates didn't get the snaps Arnaud did the other night. And I also think they know who the best quarterback is, but are dragging it out to make Bates feel better about the situation. I've never seen that make a situation better. Bates needs snaps, but his 50/50 "line" that keeps getting repeated is pure baloney. If it is 50/50, why didn't they split snaps?

Personally, I think it is a huge mistake.

I'm guessing they know they screwed up by not bringing in another quarterback and they are worried that if the backup leaves, they will be an injury away from starting a true freshman and then comes a walk on true freshman.

 

[twojman]

What's funny is I think they have. Bates didn't get the snaps Arnaud did the other night. And I also think they know who the best quarterback is, but are dragging it out to make Bates feel better about the situation. I've never seen that make a situation better. Bates needs snaps, but his 50/50 "line" that keeps getting repeated is pure baloney. If it is 50/50, why didn't they split snaps?

Personally, I think it is a huge mistake.

I'm guessing they know they screwed up by not bringing in another quarterback and they are worried that if the backup leaves, they will be an injury away from starting a true freshman and then comes a walk on true freshman.

Valid points, I was actually having some similar thoughts to this...

 

[gocubs2118]

Uh, he actually played the position last year and did very well. He also throws a good ball. That is obvious. That is about all I said.

What's interesting is that is much more than people can say about Bates who probably has negative rushing yardage for his career when you look at last season too.

I hope Bates plays better, but right now he has done very little and I emphasize the "very."

And if I were 33 I wouldn't post that he might leave if not named the quarterback. It makes him look very bad even if it is true.

He didn't play much at all last season. When he did play it was for a quarter at a time. Nothing to just come out and say that AA is just heads and shoulders above Bates.

 

[jaretac]

Wallace had a great run (forgive the pun) while at ISU, but should I remind everyone what he did toward the end of the 02 season. The coaches descriptions of Bates as "offense by accident" is exactly why he should not be the starter. Yes, in practice and against SDSU, he may be able to make something positive out of the mistake, but in Big12 play? I think AA is clearly better, and in case people forgot last season he can also run the ball when needed. I think that Bates has some allusive skills that can be valuable, but he just doesn't have the arm or the knowledge to go with it.

Just play AA and let Bates be the backup QB/ WR.

I wonder how he would be at returning kicks?

 

[cycloneman003]

if i was rich rodriguez i woulda been calling for phil bates! haha they have no one for their QB situation