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Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

Scruff

Scruff

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I posted it just this morning. It's a fascinating presentation and could have gotten a full thread, but also we hate 500 threads on virtually the same topic. Naturally it got lost within a couple hours of having posted it. I believe its ok to have reposted it because it is very fascinating for many reasons and many people don't read entire threads.

Understanding the academic part of the equation and cultural fit were my huge take aways.
 
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Jkclone15

Jkclone15

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cyclones500 said:
Was there discussion after the earlier post? I don't know how far back in thread to go to find it ... I didn't encounter until URB's post.

It's fascinating analysis I wish I had more time to indulge. I'm geeky that way.

A random observation so far -- in some contexts, Rice could be the Vanderbilt of the Big 12.
Click to expand...

There was some, starting about half way down page 65.
 
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Jkclone15

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sicem365.jpg

IMO this was the most pertinent graphic for B12 expansion. We chose the top 3 options by athletic profile. Houston was the outlier, but they're one of the most aggressive to improve right now. @cyclones500 I agree with you, Rice would be a great academic addition, as would the service academies or SMU. It seems as though the B12 isn't focused on that side of things though, which on one hand is disappointing, but on the other could be an advantage, because it gives the conference flexibility that the more selective conferences don't have.
 
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cygrads

cygrads

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Jkclone15 said:
View attachment 90559

IMO this was the most pertinent graphic for B12 expansion. We chose the top 3 options by athletic profile. Houston was the outlier, but they're one of the most aggressive to improve right now. @cyclones500 I agree with you, Rice would be a great academic addition, as would the service academies or SMU. It seems as though the B12 isn't focused on that side of things though, which on one hand is disappointing, but on the other could be an advantage, because it gives the conference flexibility that the more selective conferences don't have.
Click to expand...
What data goes into these numbers?
 
QBEagles

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The academic mission of colleges and universities is far more important than whatever happens in the athletic department in the grand scheme of things...but since we're talking about the future of the Big12 athletic conference I'm not sure what exactly we gain or lose from having schools that are good or bad academically. The Big12 isn't an academic consortium, and I can't think of a reason that academic alliances should depend on a school's football schedule. Given our existing membership the Big12 isn't going to be viewed as a better academic conference than any of the other P5s no matter who they add. Unless we think R1 universities are going to get us into the Alliance or something (and that being in the Alliance will actually mean anything), I'm not seeing the appeal.

The Big12 3.0 isn't going to sell itself as an academic conference. It's not going to pull in schools with large fanbases that can deliver big markets. BYU and UCF were already probably the best we could do there. The only way we're staying relevant is success on the field (and court). We need schools that can get ranked at some point in half their seasons, and have a once in a decade team that can make noise in a 8-12 team playoff. The remaining Big12 schools (that aren't Kansas) have shown they're capable of that. BYU/UCF/Cinci have been at that level recently too. Houston's shakier in my opinion, but someone had to make it an even number. I'm in favor of staying at 12 for now and I don't see the need to add Memphis/Boise unless something else happens, but if we have to expand for some reason I'd much rather take them than the Tulanes of the world. We need to look like a power conference, and 15,000 people in the stands for a 1-7 Kansas vs 1-8 Rice pillow fight isn't going to cut it.
 
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Jkclone15

Jkclone15

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cygrads said:
What data goes into these numbers?
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure, but everything in the presentation was a 5 year average. I believe it was a power ranking of each school's entire athletic department performance. I know there are metrics tracking that, but I've never looked that closely at them.
 
BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Jkclone15 said:
I'm not entirely sure, but everything in the presentation was a 5 year average. I believe it was a power ranking of each school's entire athletic department performance. I know there are metrics tracking that, but I've never looked that closely at them.
Click to expand...
Better to just use football since that is the only sport that matters. No way they did that over 5 years and we are the same as Kansas. The other thing to remember is that the average P5 school should be better than the average G5 school, which means a team may look better because they are playing poorer competition, easier to go 9-3 than 3-9.
 
Scruff

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Scruff

Scruff

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Also, I've seen and heard more than one intelligent person mention they're looking at social media followers and engagement. I can't drive engagement, but I bet i could find at least 10 people that don't follow the clones and get them to. If we all do the same, we can drive those numbers up! If we can win internet polls, we can win a social media follower battle.
 
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Gilbyone

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FriendlySpartan said:
I’ve got to be honest I had no idea about the bad recruiting thing (don’t really think about Nebraska that much) but always assumed they were a good/decent recruiting that just under performed or had bad coaching. But my god they are like 75th in recruiting which is abysmal. They really were an awful addition that stick out like crazy when you look at the rest of the conference. I mean even Rutgers has a top 20 recruiting class and good academics but Nebraska just shitting the bed all around.
Click to expand...
The problem with their recruiting is a lack of identity within the B1G recruiting region. They are just another school knocking on doors there. They used to rely on Texas and other southern areas for their recruits. Now they are another nobody there. The years of championship runs and rivalry with Oklahoma are long gone. And, with so many years of losses, who would want to go there.
 
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cygrads

cygrads

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Jkclone15 said:
View attachment 90559

IMO this was the most pertinent graphic for B12 expansion. We chose the top 3 options by athletic profile. Houston was the outlier, but they're one of the most aggressive to improve right now. @cyclones500 I agree with you, Rice would be a great academic addition, as would the service academies or SMU. It seems as though the B12 isn't focused on that side of things though, which on one hand is disappointing, but on the other could be an advantage, because it gives the conference flexibility that the more selective conferences don't have.
Click to expand...
Is this graph available for other P5 conferences?
 
cygrads

cygrads

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Jkclone15 said:
View attachment 90559

IMO this was the most pertinent graphic for B12 expansion. We chose the top 3 options by athletic profile. Houston was the outlier, but they're one of the most aggressive to improve right now. @cyclones500 I agree with you, Rice would be a great academic addition, as would the service academies or SMU. It seems as though the B12 isn't focused on that side of things though, which on one hand is disappointing, but on the other could be an advantage, because it gives the conference flexibility that the more selective conferences don't have.
Click to expand...
Is this graph available for other P5 conferences?
 
C

CycloneBax

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cygrads said:
It was all very interesting. The firm that pulled this together was pretty comprehensive and took a long look at academic side and how the conference could benefit with cost sharing in the research space.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, after looking thru the complete presentation, I think it would be a big stretch for ISU to fit into the Alliance schools, other than them being AAU.
 
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