Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

[CycloneErik]

Couple things here...................

I am a Hawk fan so several of you will automatically dismiss me as biased, but the same could be said for any of you as well so. I went to ISU and I have been to Iowa hundreds of times. As far as the urban, Chicago-land sprawl of a city/slash campus Ames isn't even comparable to IC so I think this fella is on to something. Iowa State's campus is fine and frankly probably more picturesque, but it is also more sterile than Iowa city as a whole (Ames is miles from campus or at least was when I went there) In fact born again Christain that I am I wouldn't want to live with in 50 miles of "liberal" IC, but college kids would I would assume. Though it’s debatable how much that does or doesn’t affect recruiting.

As for the talent disparity, I have ran this down on here a myriad of times so I wont bore you with the details. But the Big 12 does not have more talent than the Big 10 on a year-to-year basis. I know ISU fans want this to be true, but it isn't. I only know of one way to even gauge this as far as “pureâ€￾ talent, not wins but “talentâ€￾ and that is how many kids each school sends on to the NFL. There is only one team in the Big 12 that has even remotely as much NFL alumni as UM & tOSU and that is Texas. The aforementioned teams that were compared to ISU and their 7 NFL alumni were Minne with 15, IOWA-24 & PU-26. I am not trying to be a jerk here but sincerely Iowa State doesn't have talent comparable to anyone in the Big 10 but possible IU. I think if you guys realize this you can evaluate your program more fairly and realize you aren't in too tough a conference, but really it sounds like the Big 12 isn't interested in playing fair "money" wise.

With all that said I feel terrible about this for you guys. I really don't begrudge a coach for doing this and I said the same thing to maniacal Iowa fans years back. All the same it still blows especially in lieu of the fact that a scant few months ago it looked like things were looking up. Personally I agree with those who say he couldn't have spun back now and you should get a Midwest guy. I think a Turner Gill could light the plains up. He too me would have a GREAT chance of competing in the Big 12 because he knows what it's about.

Lastly don't forget OU and Texas have and will struggle again one day. Have hope.

Chad

Most of this was a very good post. Good work. I'm repped out, so this is all I can pass on.

 

[Rogue52]

The meltdown is on.

 

[mike4cy]

Some may agree, some may disagree, some may cry exuses but I do believe our fate was set and is ever more so apparent these days was set with the creation of the BIG 12

FACT: ISU is the northern most team in a conference set-up latitudial (North to South geographically)

Could Iowa State compete with teams in the BIG 10 ?
Big 10 conference is LONGITUDIALLY based- East to West

I would argue an advantages of the BIG 10 is that you do not recruit against each other geographically. Even Michigan may be seeing the difficulties of recruiting southern talent to the north. Within the conference though talent levels are hidden.

Are we that far behind the lacks of Minnesota ? Purdue ? won't even mention Iowa.. ok I did. My point is these teams are on even grounds at least in terms of geographical recruiting. When these Big Ten teams however play against southern based teams we often see the differences in talent. Yes, on a one-game basis their are Big Ten wins of SEC and Big 12 south teams, but week in week out... season to season I argue the southern teams are talently richer, easier recruiting sell.

Baylor can even entice Texas kids to stay close where it is at least warm and their families and friends can still visit and watch. I think the old "Nebraska" will never be because of this fact. In the past they recruited on tradition and winning.... the kids these days don't even remember those days of Nebraska "tradition" A kid in south Florida may choose to stay home at the University of South Florida versus the northern winters. How about the tradition of Notre Dame ? Name another conference where geographicall it is so different from team to team.

I know it sounds like excuses - but it does make it hard in recruiting and will take a "gimmick offense" or "special locally rooted" coach to build a foundation and reasons for kids to come here and play here. "playing time" goes so far.... winning is still important and a football teams takes more than just a handful of players to sustain it. I'm not saying McCarney should be offered to come back or whether he would even be interested... but a "McCarney-type coach" is what we need. Not the next young up-and coming "pup" McCarney set the pieces in place and was only 2 kicks aways from that "next level" we thought we needed. 2 years later.... (Be careful what we ask for). Oh yeah.... it can be done at ISU- its just way tougher. The conference didn't do us any favors in the way it was set-up. 3 losing seasons ago... We were 7-4. Remember ? 7-4 with three ROAD - OVERTIME losses (Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas) We had the talent, we had the pieces in place to be the '07 darlings like Kansas and Missouri. 2 Kicks away.... that is what I want to see at ISU... even if the kicks come up short or wide right... just give us a shot- be competitive and respected on and off the field. I want 7-5's 8-4's and even 5-7's if it means stability and done the right way. Just my thoughts...

Go Clones !
Is it bad to say we need another McCarney ??

Scott in Ankeny

Not not at all, we need a guy who comes in and is good with people right away. Even when McCarney won 2 games people still liked him because of the great personality he has.

Gene Chizik has just alienated a very large crowd of people, and Alabama has just inherited a new fan base as well. I will cheer for them every year to beat the living **** out of Auburn.

 

[cmhawks99]

Something I skimmed over in the first OP's post was the ease of recruiting down south. I feel he is most assuredly right in that regard. I had thought he was mostly saying the Big 12 had more talent and although I don't find that to be true. I do know there is a hotbed of talent from OU thru Texas and thru Florida.

It is this very reason that I argue with Iowa fans about recruiting and rankings. It is easier to sign top-ranking talent down south no doubt (I wont broach ranking bias here). It is no coincidence that the 15 top tier recruiting schools are all mostly down there with the exception being Ohio St, UM, ND and USC (just as good obviously) they have always been and always will be the same. That however doesn't mean they don't sometimes fail or that us "other" schools can't compete. Don't fool yourselves there is loads and loads of talented kids out there in 2 star pkgs. I have come to the realization that there are more 2 star type kids in the NFL than 4's and frankly they are scattered all about. You don't need a "southern" guy; you need a tireless worker who has recruiting ins anywhere. All the speed isn't down South. This is a long-winded thought I won’t address fully, but it is my opinion that youth soccer has greatly improved the speed, quickness and athleticism of Midwest suburban kids. In fact I don't want to make this a white/black thing but has anyone bothered to notice the resurgence of the white athlete in recent years especially in the form of speedy Lbers around the Midwest.

The talent is out there men. We Iowa, ISU, Minne's, Illinois, Missouri's Nebbie’s, Wiscy's et al will never routinely sign top 15 classes, but that is also why some teams in these categories are better than others. They take top 30 or 40 classes that were really miss-ranked because they have an eye for "talent" not rankings.

Chad

 

[Landshark]

Sorry, Des Moines has nothing to do with it. Most of these kids don't even have cars. Ames and Iowa City are on completely different levels and quite frankly, there are not many college towns (BCS schools) that I've been to that are as boring as Ames.

Also, don't kid yourself if you think this doesn't enter into the equation. They are 18-23 y/o kids. That type of stuff is important to most guys in that age range. The point is, if you can find a college town with better coeds and bars, AND a better FB tradition, why wouldn't you chose that school.

Unfortunately you're right. Everytime I go to Iowa City it makes more and more sense.

Ames has done ISU no favors in its "fear of change" mentality. Too many libs in that town holding it back. Without ISU, Ames is Marshalltown.