Bikers on Roads

[jmb]

Please show me where I stated I was a non cyclyst.

Please show me one post where I stated anything remotely close for having a blatent disregard for the law.

Your bias is pretty clear and is fogging your objectivity. I also find it cute how you really think you are a "risk taker" , too funny. Risk to you is getting up and deciding how black you shoul dmake your morning coffe as you drive to your boring 9 to 5. Yeah your're real edgy. What a risk taker, geepers. LOL LMFAO

In the end you are amplifying the risk because of your acute stubberness to realize that a certain segment of auto drivers do not care about bikers yet you stay firm and planted in your comfort thinking that since you have rights all is good.

youneedreadingcomprehension

I make the choice to amplify the risk...just as I made the choice to amplify my risk of death when I joined the service. I also amplify risk by lots of choices I have made-I just don't need them further amplified by ****** drivers, that disregard the law. Yup I will remain firmly planted in the risk category, and I am going to do everything I can to make the roads safer-even if means that I have to talk with people like you who think that cycling is a dumb risk.

9-5? I hardly work that much! That would be waaay to much like a job. I resent that you think I work 40 hrs a week. I would rather ride 40 hrs/week but I have to keep the business profitable for the family, my business partners, and to pay for all of my bike equipment. :smile: But if you ever accuse me of working 40 hrs a week-we will really have a fight:wink:

 

[Phaedrus]

I had this awesome post typed out, and then my satellite dish ate it.

But here goes: When I ride my bike, or drive my car, I take 100% responsibility. In my eyes, it is NEVER the other guy's fault.

If I'm on my bike, and that blind old lady plows me over, it's my fault for not finding a way out of her way.

If I'm in my car, and that moronic bicyclist blows through that stop sign and hits me, it's also my fault. Because bikes do that all the time, and I should've anticipated that.

Either way, I don't have much time to gripe about what the other guy is doing. Of course, I ride a bike like a spaz, but I'm a live spaz....

 

[jmb]

I had this awesome post typed out, and then my satellite dish ate it.

But here goes: When I ride my bike, or drive my car, I take 100% responsibility. In my eyes, it is NEVER the other guy's fault.

If I'm on my bike, and that blind old lady plows me over, it's my fault for not finding a way out of her way.

If I'm in my car, and that moronic bicyclist blows through that stop sign and hits me, it's also my fault. Because bikes do that all the time, and I should've anticipated that.

Either way, I don't have much time to gripe about what the other guy is doing. Of course, I ride a bike like a spaz, but I'm a live spaz....

This I accept 100%!!!! I wish all of us would drive or car and bikes like this. Great! I think both sides can buy this!

 

[Phaedrus]

This I accept 100%!!!! I wish all of us would drive or car and bikes like this. Great! I think both sides can buy this!

For a dollar!!!

 

[BigBake]

That is because all the publicity is against stupid motorists. Very seldom do idiot bicyclist get histrionic articles in the DMR when they commit suicide by stupidity on their bike. Your data sample is extremely flawed.

I gotta disagree. Any incident involving a car/bicycle is covered on the news. Especially when injury/death is involved.

 

[Colorado]

I had this awesome post typed out, and then my satellite dish ate it.

But here goes: When I ride my bike, or drive my car, I take 100% responsibility. In my eyes, it is NEVER the other guy's fault.

If I'm on my bike, and that blind old lady plows me over, it's my fault for not finding a way out of her way.

If I'm in my car, and that moronic bicyclist blows through that stop sign and hits me, it's also my fault. Because bikes do that all the time, and I should've anticipated that.

Either way, I don't have much time to gripe about what the other guy is doing. Of course, I ride a bike like a spaz, but I'm a live spaz....

You can take every precaution known and still get hit by a car passing you by. All the driver needs to do is make the decision to do it. I fail to see that would still be your fault.

 

[DaddyMac]

I had this awesome post typed out, and then my satellite dish ate it.

But here goes: When I ride my bike, or drive my car, I take 100% responsibility. In my eyes, it is NEVER the other guy's fault.

If I'm on my bike, and that blind old lady plows me over, it's my fault for not finding a way out of her way.

If I'm in my car, and that moronic bicyclist blows through that stop sign and hits me, it's also my fault. Because bikes do that all the time, and I should've anticipated that.

Either way, I don't have much time to gripe about what the other guy is doing. Of course, I ride a bike like a spaz, but I'm a live spaz....

I think that's a great attitude to have when riding/driving/walking.

But in practicality or actuality - it's not really the case. You can do everything in your power as a rider or motorist, be consciously safe about the situation, and still get hosed.

I think the overwhelming majority of people are safe and courteous - whether on 2 or 4 wheels (or those wierd trikes). We're really arguing over the minority jerk-offs, and to be honest and unfortunately mean - I don't really care what happens to them.

 

[Phaedrus]

I think the overwhelming majority of people are safe and courteous - whether on 2 or 4 wheels (or those wierd trikes). We're really arguing over the minority jerk-offs, and to be honest and unfortunately mean - I don't really care what happens to them.

I disagree with that. I think the majority of bicyclists and motorists are only marginally competent. And really don't put much thought into courtesy. They're courteous "when they remember".

And I think only a shockingly small minority understand what "situational awareness" really means. To me, situational awareness means going home to my beloved wife and daughters. I think that has led me to develop more of it than your typical dude.

As an illustration, I was once driving my Geo Metro through a small town, when all of a sudden I realized that I'd jerked my wheel into the oncoming lane. I had no idea why. Then I realized that someone had shot out of a blind alley without looking.

My subconscious had me avoiding the accident before my conscious mind even realized it. I developed that "skill" through combat training, I believe.

THAT is situational awareness. One of the reasons I object to riding in a pack is that my pack instinct overrides my subconscious. And I see that as an unacceptable risk. And, oh, there's that social misfit thing, too.

You can't avoid all accidents, but two people taking 100% responsibility for their own driving/riding are at very low risk to each other.

And everyone here has a good point, even though almost everyone is arguing apples to oranges.

 

[clones_jer]

I disagree with that. I think the majority of bicyclists and motorists are only marginally competent. And really don't put much thought into courtesy. They're courteous "when they remember".

And I think only a shockingly small minority understand what "situational awareness" really means. To me, situational awareness means going home to my beloved wife and daughters. I think that has led me to develop more of it than your typical dude.

As an illustration, I was once driving my Geo Metro through a small town, when all of a sudden I realized that I'd jerked my wheel into the oncoming lane. I had no idea why. Then I realized that someone had shot out of a blind alley without looking.

My subconscious had me avoiding the accident before my conscious mind even realized it. I developed that "skill" through combat training, I believe.

THAT is situational awareness. One of the reasons I object to riding in a pack is that my pack instinct overrides my subconscious. And I see that as an unacceptable risk. And, oh, there's that social misfit thing, too.

You can't avoid all accidents, but two people taking 100% responsibility for their own driving/riding are at very low risk to each other.

And everyone here has a good point, even though almost everyone is arguing apples to oranges.

so ... basically what that guy said five pages ago about riding / driving defensively (or at least awake) for those of us without warrior-honed reaction skills.

All bikers want is a shot a survival. The attitude of anger and malice is frightening. Probably the same people who pass stopped school buses or don't get over for an ambulence. Some people are internally focused at all times.

 

[Phaedrus]

so ... basically what that guy said five pages ago about riding / driving defensively (or at least awake) for those of us without warrior-honed reaction skills.

All bikers want is a shot a survival. The attitude of anger and malice is frightening. Probably the same people who pass stopped school buses or don't get over for an ambulence. Some people are internally focused at all times.

I'm actually kind of shocked by how many bicyclists apparently want to make a statement more than they want to survive, according to the way they ride.

You're creating a straw man here in your last two sentences. Most people, myself included, who are angry at bicyclists are so because of the fear that they can kill one so easily in a moments' inattention or by mistake, and then pay for it the rest of their lives....

It doesn't help when bicyclists default into "lynch the motorist" everytime a bike on car happens. Unless the statistics on accidents are completely bogus, its more likely the bicyclist is at fault, anyway.

Y'know, the rest of you over-emotionally driven types can have this argument.

 

[Phaedrus]

I gotta disagree. Any incident involving a car/bicycle is covered on the news. Especially when injury/death is involved.

Not true. A bike on car gets 6 lines.

A car on bike gets a week long series of feature length article.

Add it up...

 

[DaddyMac]

Most people, myself included, who are angry at bicyclists are so because of the fear that they can kill one so easily in a moments' inattention or by mistake, and then pay for it the rest of their lives....

110% disagree (although not about you)

Most motorists who complain about bikes use the agruement of safety as window dressing for the fact their annoyed that bikes are on their precious roads and they may have to use their brake whilst zipping around and have been impeded for about 100 yards of travel.

Most are annoyed, not concerned about life altering consequences of accidents.

I think that's loud and clear in this thread.

 

[GoShow97]

I'm actually kind of shocked by how many bicyclists apparently want to make a statement more than they want to survive, according to the way they ride.

.

It's because they have rights, man.

 

[DaddyMac]

Not true. A bike on car gets 6 lines.

A car on bike gets a week long series of feature length article.

Add it up...

Honestly - aside from Dr Breedlove. I couldn't name a single accident, either way, that got so much as a mention.

Strike that - aside from a couple hit and runs.

 

[GoShow97]

110% disagree (although not about you)

Most motorists who complain about bikes use the agruement of safety as window dressing for the fact their annoyed that bikes are on their precious roads and they may have to use their brake whilst zipping around and have been impeded for about 100 yards of travel.

Most are annoyed, not concerned about life altering consequences of accidents.

.

Do you have any data or facts to back up this claim. Again, your opinion does not make it so.

 

[Phaedrus]

so ... basically what that guy said five pages ago about riding / driving defensively (or at least awake) for those of us without warrior-honed reaction skills.

And that is overdramatised b.s..

All I'm saying is that I discount automatically statements by people when they say "I did all I could". Because, frankly, 99.9% of motorists AND bicyclists don't even come close to driving/riding as defensively "as they could."

If you're concentrating on road racing, or that drafting crap that was happening in the original post, you aren't concentrating on riding safely. Period. I have no idea if it was a contributing factor, but it could be.

Remember our argument a few months ago, about the bikes that hit the pickup that stopped suddenly in front of them? (new bag of worms)

Each and every one of those bike riders were doing something OTHER than riding defensively.

So spare the crap, sir. Build your straw men and have your histrionic fit somewhere else. Which fits are one things I detest about some bicyclists. As much as I detest road rage by motorists. No-one likes it when either one happens.

 

[DaddyMac]

Do you have any data or facts to back up this claim. Again, your opinion does not make it so.

Really? It doesn't? But it would seem that it makes it so for the other side of the arguement - huh?

Read the first pages of this thread. Nary a mention of "Gee, I really am worried that I may hit a bicyclist and my life will be tragically altered forever".

More along the lines of "Get the bikes off the road". "My gas taxes and registrations pay for the roads, bikes don't". So on and so forth.

 

[clones_jer]

I'm actually kind of shocked by how many bicyclists apparently want to make a statement more than they want to survive, according to the way they ride.

You're creating a straw man here in your last two sentences. Most people, myself included, who are angry at bicyclists are so because of the fear that they can kill one so easily in a moments' inattention or by mistake, and then pay for it the rest of their lives....

It doesn't help when bicyclists default into "lynch the motorist" everytime a bike on car happens. Unless the statistics on accidents are completely bogus, its more likely the bicyclist is at fault, anyway.

Y'know, the rest of you over-emotionally driven types can have this argument.

This thread is a pretty obvious "lynch the biker" example. See every post by the thread author.

The opportunity to kill from inattention is a given is operating a motor vehicle. Much like you must control your super-commando physique and Norris-like abilities when you're amongst ordinary humans, so to must the driver of a vehicle take responsibilty for his lethal potential.

It's a lot like estimating the amount of chores you do around the house. When surveyed and monitored they find that almost everyone estimates over and they remember with clarity the time they perform them, but quickly forget times their partners do.

There are thousands of bike / car interactions that go unnoticed because everything happens smoothly and nobody has a problem. These are quickly forgotten and replaced with the "******* biker/motorist" metality at the first discomfort by either party.

and finally, as my keyboard smokes, No biker would rather die to prove a point, so quit acting as if they would. They don't want extra attention, just a little extra breathing room without necessitating a commando-roll that so many of us haven't had the opportunity to perfect in the war zone.

 

[GoShow97]

Really? It doesn't? But it would seem that it makes it so for the other side of the arguement - huh?

Read the first pages of this thread. Nary a mention of "Gee, I really am worried that I may hit a bicyclist and my life will be tragically altered forever".

More along the lines of "Get the bikes off the road". "My gas taxes and registrations pay for the roads, bikes don't". So on and so forth.

Again your opinion, sorry.

 

[Phaedrus]

Really? It doesn't? But it would seem that it makes it so for the other side of the arguement - huh?

Read the first pages of this thread. Nary a mention of "Gee, I really am worried that I may hit a bicyclist and my life will be tragically altered forever".

More along the lines of "Get the bikes off the road". "My gas taxes and registrations pay for the roads, bikes don't". So on and so forth.

That stuff is pretty silly, isn't it?