COLUMN: The Big 12 finally feels like a functional family

Sigmapolis

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America is not Australia, where England loaded up the prisons and the ***** houses and sent them away, in fact we are just the opposite. America was founded by those that wanted a better life for themselves and their children, by those that were not going to get the title and inherence that the first son was going to get. Some came for religious freedom, but most came for a better life, few were criminal's con artist or the rest, we had something that was unimaginable in the old world, and that was LAND, cheap land, that they could own, not controlled by the wealthy or the church but by themselves.

I don't think you really disagree with me. Looks like we said the same thing.

I had malcontents of various stripes, religious weirdos starting with the Puritans, risktakers, and the people with nothing to lose in the Old World on my list of ingredients to make "Americans."

I think your romantic version of who and why America was founded is off, though. Maybe if you think history started in 1776. But it didn't. European settlement was almost 200 years old at that point.

I think you misunderstand the early history of immigration to what would become the U.S. if you think forced labor wasn't a strong/the main part of early American history. No, we don't have the Botany Bay "Australia was founded as a penal colony hehe!" story that Australia does... but we do have slavery. Additionally, most white settlers to colonial America came as indentured servants (so what amounted to slavery for some amount of years or even decades before freedom was earned through hard labor). Many of those willing to take the option of indentured servitude were desperately poor or criminals preferring this over other unhappy options.

Yes, later on the western frontier opened (which the British had closed as to not end up in a series of wars to force the pre-Colombian inhabitants off their lands, which the U.S. ended up having to do in a series of genocidal wars), then people could come for the sake of staking a claim and building a homestead. But that wasn't until the very end of the 1700s and the early 1800s. What about Jamestown (1606) to 1776?

So, in many ways, we were worse than Australia. Australia never had plantation slavery. We had a few hundred years where slaves and indentured servants did the work before a middle class developed.

The history of the American labor market for its first two centuries was one of a forced labor colony of various degrees of "forced." It wasn't until the large waves of immigration after the country's founding, like the waves of Irish in the ~1850s and Italians in the late 1800s, when the more "romantic" story of downtrodden people coming here to make a better life for themselves is a more accurate conception of what happen.

But those people came relatively late. Much about the national character had already been forged by that point. And even then, coming to America to "build a new life for my family" and "I had nothing to lose in Ireland and was ornery and known to be resistant to British colonial authority and, by extension, the rest of my family and my descendants are likely to behave in a similar antiauthoritarian way" aren't inconsistent stories.

Both were probably usually true.
 
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SEIOWA CLONE

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I don't think you really disagree with me. Looks like we said the same thing.

I had malcontents of various stripes, religious weirdos starting with the Puritans, risktakers, and the people with nothing to lose in the Old World on my list of ingredients to make "Americans."

I think your romantic version of who and why America was founded is off, though. Maybe if you think history started in 1776. But it didn't. European settlement was almost 200 years old at that point.

I think you misunderstand the early history of immigration to what would become the U.S. if you think forced labor wasn't a strong/the main part of early American history. No, we don't have the Botany Bay "Australia was founded as a penal colony hehe!" story that Australia does... but we do have slavery. Additionally, most white settlers to colonial America came as indentured servants (so what amounted to slavery for some amount of years or even decades before freedom was earned through hard labor). Many of those willing to take the option of indentured servitude were desperately poor or criminals preferring this over other unhappy options.

Yes, later on the western frontier opened (which the British had closed as to not end up in a series of wars to force the pre-Colombian inhabitants off their lands, which the U.S. ended up having to do in a series of genocidal wars), then people could come for the sake of staking a claim and building a homestead. But that wasn't until the very end of the 1700s and the early 1800s. What about Jamestown (1606) to 1776?

So, in many ways, we were worse than Australia. Australia never had plantation slavery. We had a few hundred years where slaves and indentured servants did the work before a middle class developed.

The history of the American labor market for its first two centuries was one of a forced labor colony of various degrees of "forced." It wasn't until the large waves of immigration after the country's founding, like the waves of Irish in the ~1850s and Italians in the late 1800s, when the more "romantic" story of downtrodden people coming here to make a better life for themselves is a more accurate conception of what happen.

But those people came relatively late. Much about the national character had already been forged by that point. And even then, coming to America to "build a new life for my family" and "I had nothing to lose in Ireland and was ornery and known to be resistant to British colonial authority and, by extension, the rest of my family and my descendants are likely to behave in a similar antiauthoritarian way" aren't inconsistent stories.

Both were probably usually true.

I don't think you really disagree with me. Looks like we said the same thing.

I had malcontents of various stripes, religious weirdos starting with the Puritans, risktakers, and the people with nothing to lose in the Old World on my list of ingredients to make "Americans."

I think your romantic version of who and why America was founded is off, though. Maybe if you think history started in 1776. But it didn't. European settlement was almost 200 years old at that point.

I think you misunderstand the early history of immigration to what would become the U.S. if you think forced labor wasn't a strong/the main part of early American history. No, we don't have the Botany Bay "Australia was founded as a penal colony hehe!" story that Australia does... but we do have slavery. Additionally, most white settlers to colonial America came as indentured servants (so what amounted to slavery for some amount of years or even decades before freedom was earned through hard labor). Many of those willing to take the option of indentured servitude were desperately poor or criminals preferring this over other unhappy options.

Yes, later on the western frontier opened (which the British had closed as to not end up in a series of wars to force the pre-Colombian inhabitants off their lands, which the U.S. ended up having to do in a series of genocidal wars), then people could come for the sake of staking a claim and building a homestead. But that wasn't until the very end of the 1700s and the early 1800s. What about Jamestown (1606) to 1776?

So, in many ways, we were worse than Australia. Australia never had plantation slavery. We had a few hundred years where slaves and indentured servants did the work before a middle class developed.

The history of the American labor market for its first two centuries was one of a forced labor colony of various degrees of "forced." It wasn't until the large waves of immigration after the country's founding, like the waves of Irish in the ~1850s and Italians in the late 1800s, when the more "romantic" story of downtrodden people coming here to make a better life for themselves is a more accurate conception of what happen.

But those people came relatively late. Much about the national character had already been forged by that point. And even then, coming to America to "build a new life for my family" and "I had nothing to lose in Ireland and was ornery and known to be resistant to British colonial authority and, by extension, the rest of my family and my descendants are likely to behave in a similar antiauthoritarian way" aren't inconsistent stories.

Both were probably usually true.
Few came as indentured servants, in fact that was the major reason for the rise of slavery, you had to free a person that was indentured, but you kept a slave for life and then their children.

No, we were not worse that Australia, slavery didn't work there because the land would not support growing cash crops like it did in the US. the Carribean Islands is where slavery was used mostly. It was so profitable there, that it was cheaper in some cases to feed them little, let them die and purchase new ones.

The first slaves came to Jamestown within a year of the settlement, but most of the people that came here did so for a better life, few were running away from the law, they were running away from poverty, and the ability to ever get out of it back in Europe. When most of this immigration occurred, the church and wealthy owned 80 to 90% of the land, the few that owned land, tend to be rocky poor soil, the US had abundant amounts of land, that was free to dirt cheap, and is some of the best land on the planet.

My point is they wanted a better life, religious freedom like the Quakers and Pilgrims but many just wanted the opportunity to own land. They were not leaving because of the law, they wanted opportunity that the US provided.
 
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madguy30

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Good riddance. I'll miss Ou but good riddance to Texas, they've wrecked every conference they've ever been in but I think they've met their match in the SEC. Bama and LSU will tell them to go pound sand.

What I'll be most annoyed about with Texas is the same that happened to Nebraska in this 'Welcome to the SEC' narrative when they get beat up.

A whole bunch of people ignored how Nebraska hadn't been dominant since 2001 when they came to the B1G and got beat up by a real good WI team (still finished 5-3 in conference) in 2011 and now Texas will get the same treatment even though they've been pretty bad since Colt McCoy hurt his shoulder.
 

Sigmapolis

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Few came as indentured servants, in fact that was the major reason for the rise of slavery, you had to free a person that was indentured, but you kept a slave for life and then their children.

I will say from the start I'm not sure what point you're trying to refute. My point is that the U.S. is made up of the ornery misfits of the world who wanted a better life. You seem to be saying "no they just wanted a better life but they weren't ornery!" while not really offering any evidence to substantiate that claim. In fact, I think the two points are rather complementary to my conception of our culture as violent and malcontented.

Factually, though, roughly one-third to one-half of colonial settlers came over as indentured servants according to the Library of Congress. Another one-fourth or so came in the Atlantic slave trade. Most of the country pre-1776 thus came to what would become the U.S. as labor in colonies that were mostly founded as profit-seeking ventures (some exceptions to that in New England looking for religious freedom, but this was the case for most of the original eastern colonies from New York down through the southern colonies).

The romanticized "looking for a better life" types you want to emphasize came only after the founding in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. Yes, they were looking for land on the western and southern frontiers... which only became available when the U.S. successfully prosecuted a series of genocidal wars against the pre-Colombian inhabitants. The British refused to do so; the U.S. had no such qualms about such campaigns.

No, we were not worse that Australia, slavery didn't work there because the land would not support growing cash crops like it did in the US. the Carribean Islands is where slavery was used mostly. It was so profitable there, that it was cheaper in some cases to feed them little, let them die and purchase new ones.

I think you nicely refute your own point here. You describe the system of plantation agriculture as so brutal "it was cheaper in some cases to feed them little [and] let them die and purchase new ones." How in the world could the Australian penal colony be worse than a system that treated kidnapped and enslaved people (not criminals given harsh treatment in Australia but at least a chance to pay their debt to society, earn their freedom, and to start over on the other side of the planet) as commodities to be disposed of in that way?

Granted, Caribbean and Brazilian sugar plantations were still much harsher than the cotton and tobacco plantations in what would become the Southeast of the U.S., but think carefully before you assert that some other system was more brutalizing than the Atlantic slave trade and plantation agriculture.

The first slaves came to Jamestown within a year of the settlement, but most of the people that came here did so for a better life, few were running away from the law, they were running away from poverty, and the ability to ever get out of it back in Europe. When most of this immigration occurred, the church and wealthy owned 80 to 90% of the land, the few that owned land, tend to be rocky poor soil, the US had abundant amounts of land, that was free to dirt cheap, and is some of the best land on the planet.

Take a step back and imagine two peasant farmers in war-torn Germany after the Napoleonic Wars. Both are considering moving to America for the available land and better life you describe.

One decides to go for it. One decides to tough it out and accept their lot. Think of the different personalities and levels of risk tolerance those two decisions imply for the two of them.

The one who decides to go is frankly risking everything. They're moving to another CONTINENT in an age before the telegraph. They aren't going to know anybody in their new homeland and, even if they do, they are going to be hard to track down without the Internet or even the white pages. Even crossing the Atlantic in that age was extremely dangerous. Conditions in steerage were unhealthy and dangerous; up to 10% to 20% of immigrants died crossing the ocean. While the R.M.S. Titanic is the most famous and glamorous instance, dozens of such liners found only the bottom of the ocean in the 19th Century. Many of them simply disappeared.

Once they arrive, things are far from guaranteed. You don't speak the language. You don't know anything about local customs. Life then had much higher levels of property crime and physical violence than it does now, and I can only imagine people coming off the boat who know nobody, don't speak English, and the cops don't care about would have been obvious targets for that. Most people in that era were very much NOT tolerant of immigrants coming from other lands and did not tolerate other religions, ethnicities, and languages very well. The idea that being xenophobic and unwelcoming to people trying to make a better life for themselves is a bad thing is a modern one with which most native-born Americans in 19th Century did not agree.

Despite all this, many of them did it. Many of them died or failed but many of them also prospered. Can you see what kind of personality type and tolerance to risk this selects for when you scale this up to the tens of millions? And the inverse sort of person that it left behind in Europe in comparison?

"They were looking for a better life" doesn't mean they weren't ornery and ungovernable. In fact, to be open to those kind of risks, you have to have an ornery "**** it" element to your personality. You have to tolerate risk and violent to a high degree and be a willing participant in both things when needed.

And that's us. Americans. *screaming bald eagles fly by*

My point is they wanted a better life, religious freedom like the Quakers and Pilgrims but many just wanted the opportunity to own land. They were not leaving because of the law, they wanted opportunity that the US provided.

The Quakers and Pilgrims/Puritans were religious nut jobs. I say that with nothing but love and respect for them, but compared to the Anglican beliefs they were fleeing... they were nut jobs.

They were very much the spiritual version of the two example peasants from Germany I described in my previous instance where more of the emphasis was on economic opportunity.

I never said most or even a large minority of Americans came to this country as criminals. Many were -- upwards of 60,000 in colonial America -- but that was just one of many sources for ornery malcontents that made up the social and genetic ancestors of the people who still live in these United States.

I think your conception of rebelling is limited if you think the only thing one can rebel against is the law. People can rebel against all sorts of less formal systems of social and behavioral control --

-- religious mores (e.g., like you said, the Puritans and the Quakers)
-- ossified economic systems that offer no upward mobility or opportunity for the ambitious (such as the remnants of the feudal system in central and eastern Europe, China, and Japan)
-- those fleeing political persecution (e.g., Jews and the Irish tired of British colonialism)
-- debt, criminality, and poor reputation (e.g., those indentured servants in colonial America)
-- then add in the African slaves who didn't really get a choice

The point is to come over to America meant you had to be rebelling against something to get on that boat. Wanting a better life for you and your family and taking insane risks to make it happen is rebelling against safety and comfort and the mediocre stagnation of the existing system in your homeland. You have to be able to say "I am going to risk everything" and be enough of an individualist to say you're going to be on the ones to succeed and you're going to do what it takes to do it. And **** anybody who tries to stop you from doing it.

So, America collected all the ornery rebels of the world and took them out of just about everywhere else. And that's a distinguishing national characteristic that will forever define us.
 
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ISU4Life

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Good riddance. I'll miss Ou but good riddance to Texas, they've wrecked every conference they've ever been in but I think they've met their match in the SEC. Bama and LSU will tell them to go pound
I’ll miss Oklahoma just based on amount of games played and how long we have been in the same conference. That one will hurt even though until recently they owned us. Texas can sit and spin, absolutely no love loss with those clowns. 1689392514434.jpeg
 

SEIOWA CLONE

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I will say from the start I'm not sure what point you're trying to refute. My point is that the U.S. is made up of the ornery misfits of the world who wanted a better life. You seem to be saying "no they just wanted a better life but they weren't ornery!" while not really offering any evidence to substantiate that claim. In fact, I think the two points are rather complementary to my conception of our culture as violent and malcontented.

So indentured servants in your book are ornery rebels? I would say that they are people that want a better life than what is offered in Europe at the time. Most of your stats are also during the 1600's, when only about half a million people came to the new world. A little less than half came as indentured servants, to pay their passage to the new world. Wanting a better life does not make you an ornery rebel in your words, just people that want to get ahead. A trait that allowed America to become the strongest country in the world, we saw a better life and went out and achieved it. A trait that many of us have now forgotten, by the way.

After 1700 few if any people came as indentured service, that was another reason that slavery became the choice for agriculture in the Southern states.
This idea that you are pushing is wrong, the US was not founded like Australia, and which was primarily settled by convicts and people that England wanted to get rid of in 1788, after the Revolutionary War.
 

Sigmapolis

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So indentured servants in your book are ornery rebels? I would say that they are people that want a better life than what is offered in Europe at the time. Most of your stats are also during the 1600's, when only about half a million people came to the new world. A little less than half came as indentured servants, to pay their passage to the new world. Wanting a better life does not make you an ornery rebel in your words, just people that want to get ahead. A trait that allowed America to become the strongest country in the world, we saw a better life and went out and achieved it. A trait that many of us have now forgotten, by the way.

After 1700 few if any people came as indentured service, that was another reason that slavery became the choice for agriculture in the Southern states.
This idea that you are pushing is wrong, the US was not founded like Australia, and which was primarily settled by convicts and people that England wanted to get rid of in 1788, after the Revolutionary War.

Nothing that you've said here attempts to refute my core point that Americans were self-selected for personality traits more tolerant of risk and less deferential to authority than those cousins they left behind in whatever country. You're trying to stand up some scarecrow that I said the U.S. was basically the same as Australia (a penal colony) which is absurd on its face. Australia never had planation slavery, as you noted earlier. Heck, you don't even seem to understand Australia very well. Yes, it was a penal colony, but most of its population ultimately came through free settlers. I've never said anything like the U.S. founding was like that of Australia as a penal colony (though a slave brought in 1619 might disagree). This is the paragraph you've been trying to pick at --

Americans are the rejects from the rest of the world. We're the descendants of the younger sons who inherited neither land nor title. The serfs and the peasants who wanted land and opportunity of their own. Of those sold into slavery and brought here under bondage. Bastard children, criminals, con artists, and rapists looking to start over in a new town (or, heck, a new continent) where nobody knew their name and they have no reputation to hold them back. Religious weirdos and various types of cults seeking to escape the corruptions of the Old World and create their utopia. The ones who wanted more than the little they had and were willing to risk everything to make it happen.

I count at least six things I listed there as the "source material" for Americans --

1. Younger sons without land or title
2. Serfs and peasants who wanted land and opportunity of their own
3. Those sold into slavery and brought here under bondage
4. Bastard children, criminals, and con artists
5. Religious weirdos
6. Those with an extremely high tolerance for risk

These populations have a few common traits that helps define us as Americans -- again, a high tolerance for risk and their own set of reasons to reject the oppressive nature of the previous status quo.

You seem to want to argue that I only said #4 (or maybe #3 if indentured servitude counts for "bondage" there). But I didn't do that. I said what you've been insisting I didn't say clearly under #2. Did you just not read the whole thing or just refuse to understand the context of the full paragraph? Not every migrant to the U.S. was an economic migrant looking for a better life. Many were but not all. There were many reasons our ancestors ended up over here and, yes, fleeing a life of crime on the edge of society to start fresh was one of them.

I don't think you understand the chutzpah it took to leave Europe and seek out a better life in America in the 1600s through the early 1900s. It wasn't like moving from Iowa to Tennessee would be now because you got a better job offer. It was literally risking your life and all that you knew. The Atlantic crossing was absurdly dangerous by modern standards. You were leaving behind everything that you knew for a country you didn't know, full of people who didn't very much want you there, and with few of them speaking your language.

It matters less if you did this as an indentured servant coming over on a sailing ship in 1650 or if you did this paying a fare (though an absurdly high one) as a free settler on a steamship in 1850. Either way, you had to have some ******* balls to do that, and you'd had a enough of whatever you were leaving behind and old power structures that you were willing to bet every cent you had and put your life on the line to do it.

Those are our grandfathers and grandmothers. It's part of us.

And by the way, even if indentured servitude went out of fashion by the 19th Century, passage across the Atlantic was absurdly expensive for peasant farmers of the period who had nothing. Most of them had to put themselves in extreme debt to afford the passage of one son to head over, set up shop, send money back, and then send another son or two and build up enough of a "base" where then the wives and children could join them. It might not have been formal indentured servitude under the terms of a contract like that, but it would be the equivalent of taking out a second and third mortgage on your home. The structure of the deal was slightly different, but the terms were no less harsh on the families trying to emigrate and the risks were no lower.
 
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CysRage

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Couldn't agree with CW more on the conference revenue part. One particular P2 team's fans (if you can catch my drift) love to rub this in to ISU fans how much their school is making yet they're expected to donate as much to the school and NIL, pay as much for tickets, etc to watch their team as a team in the Big 12 who's media revenue is a fraction of. Wow, such great bragging rights for those fans!
 

theshadow

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The Big 12 finally feels like a functional family because the ******* cousins that caused the dysfunction are all gone (or leaving soon).
 
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Cyched

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t-noah

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Do I dare say it...
- Canadian football fields are marked out in yards as well.
- Soccer fields are measured in yards (18 yard box, 6 yard box - or simply 18 and 6, penalty mark is 12 yards, penalty arc is 10 yards, center circle is 10 yards, goal 8 yards x 8 feet, defenders must retreat 10 yards on a free or corner kick) pretty much the world over. If it is marked out in meters it is clearly a conversion like 9.15m for the center circle.

;)
Those damn British, it's all the English' fault! Then they bail to the metric in 1965.

I remember some talk about the US going metric, I think during Carter's term? I guess it didn't go very far. It mostly makes more sense overall. I'd get used to it; I think we all would with time. I do like the Fahrenheit better than Celcius though! I might have a hard time with that one.

Will there ever be another serious push for the US to go metric? What do you all think?