CPR has 3 more wins in 4 years than Snyder has in 2

[trajanJ]

Comparing anybody with Snyder is somewhat unfair. For one thing Snyder inherited a team at K-State that didn't have a single player that would have cracked the two-deep on the team CPR inherited. It was the worst team at the worst football school in the history of the game. What Snyder did was crazy and I can't think of another coach that did something similar.

CPR has done a great job at ISU and he probably overachieved the first year and that set him up for some fans to be disappointed now. Had he won 2 games his first year and then 3 or 4 the next nobody would be questioning him now. Currently he has his best ranked recruiting class coming in and already has a commitment from a 4 star player for next year. From a fan from another Big 12 school I think it looks like he's going in the right direction.

 

[ameshammer]

Snyder is a damn good coach. But how many bowl games have they won in the last 10 years?

Is winning bowl games best measure? K-State has won 2 Big XII championships in last 10 years and spent a considerable amount of time in national spotlight this year.

 

[Cyched]

Comparing anybody with Snyder is somewhat unfair. For one thing Snyder inherited a team at K-State that didn't have a single player that would have cracked the two-deep on the team CPR inherited. It was the worst team at the worst football school in the history of the game. What Snyder did was crazy and I can't think of another coach that did something similar.

CPR has done a great job at ISU and he probably overachieved the first year and that set him up for some fans to be disappointed now. Had he won 2 games his first year and then 3 or 4 the next nobody would be questioning him now. Currently he has his best ranked recruiting class coming in and already has a commitment from a 4 star player for next year. From a fan from another Big 12 school I think it looks like he's going in the right direction.

This.

Some (not all) people have forgotten that his first year was probably his easiest schedule-wise. Since he had to face a tougher schedule every year since then, I would say he's held his own pretty well

 

[The_Architect]

His team this year had an ability to score to finish out drives. They averaged only 38 yds per game more than us, yet had 15 pts per game more. They scored about the same points as several conference teams that had 100 yds per game more offense.

Their O-Lines consistently out play their recruiting rankings and they are able to run the ball effectively in the red zone.

 

[CyCo]

Recruiting rules differed back when Snyder began at KSU, too. He also recruited a lot of partial qualifiers and a lot of very good athletes that were much less than stellar scholars. I was there at the time, but do not recall graduation rates. That would be an interesting factoid.

Fast-forward to the current era, it is not significantly different. He has adapted his 'model' to fit current-day rules. In place of PQ and marginal students are a large number of juco bodies. The latter isn't, necessarily, wrong but rather a survival/growth mechanism that he's made work. Look what the latest fat-daddy down the road in Lawrence is doing.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

More meaningful comparison- Rhoads has more wins in first four years at ISU than anyone in over 100 years

That is because he started off so incredibly well. 7 and 5 wins to start a coaching tenure at ISU is completely unprecedented. The only problem is, you only start a tenure once. He now needs to figure out how to have legitimately good years, especially in the Big 12 and he knows that. We need get to 8 wins in the next two years or a lot of people are going to be very disappointing, including me. I think we get there, but I thought we would get there this year.

It basically all hinges on Rohach or Richardson being outstanding QBs, or Barnett completely transforming himself into a QB who can win games for ISU and not just manage games that we win.

 

[ameshammer]

Recruiting rules differed back when Snyder began at KSU, too. He also recruited a lot of partial qualifiers and a lot of very good athletes that were much less than stellar scholars. I was there at the time, but do not recall graduation rates. That would be an interesting factoid.

Fast-forward to the current era, it is not significantly different. He has adapted his 'model' to fit current-day rules. In place of PQ and marginal students are a large number of juco bodies. The latter isn't, necessarily, wrong but rather a survival/growth mechanism that he's made work. Look what the latest fat-daddy down the road in Lawrence is doing.

who gives a **** about graduation rates. fans don't give a **** about them, fans want wins!

 

[Cyclonic1]

Snyder learned from one of the best cheaters ever in ole Hayden. But no one ever wants to talk about what a snake that guy was.

Okay, I'll take the bait. Please elaborate on Fry's reptile tendencies.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Okay, I'll take the bait. Please elaborate on Fry's reptile tendencies.

Why do you comment in italics.

 

[Clark]

Why do you comment in italics.

He's whispering.

 

[CycoCyclone]

Great coach, plus tons of transfers and jucos

 

[Wally86]

Okay, I'll take the bait. Please elaborate on Fry's reptile tendencies.

I worked with a Fry era walk on some years ago. He didn't play but was in the program a couple years. He was still a Hawk fan so his comments really didn't sound like sour apples. He explained how Fry took care of his high profile recruits it made sense so I tend to believe what he said. It comes down to this, if you want to do something right do it yourself..... no witnesses nothing traceable. Take that for what it is about a fourth hand commentary.

Regardless of reptile tendancies both Fry and Snyder are excellant coaches. It is hard not to like guys that are good at what they do. I just hope that Rhoads is spoke of with the same reverance in 20 years.

Go Cyclones.

 

[Cyhart]

That is because he started off so incredibly well. 7 and 5 wins to start a coaching tenure at ISU is completely unprecedented. The only problem is, you only start a tenure once. He now needs to figure out how to have legitimately good years, especially in the Big 12 and he knows that. We need get to 8 wins in the next two years or a lot of people are going to be very disappointing, including me. I think we get there, but I thought we would get there this year.

It basically all hinges on Rohach or Richardson being outstanding QBs, or Barnett completely transforming himself into a QB who can win games for ISU and not just manage games that we win.

That and a pair of testicles.

No, that (QB play) and decent line play. Getting manhandled on both fronts by a Conf USA team is eye-opening, at best.

 

[CyCo]

who gives a **** about graduation rates. fans don't give a **** about them, fans want wins!

lol...I hear you. The business-side reality today, collegiately, and indirectly excluding the $$-side, demands Pollard's/ADs graduate kids in order to maintain scholarship-maximums without penalty.

 

[Goothrey]

Rhoads doesn't have the fortune of playing Iowa State every year.

 

[ameshammer]

Rhoads doesn't have the fortune of playing Iowa State every year.

Touche

 

[CarolinaCy]

Top 10? Boy, I could make a strong case for number one. The only hangup I have is that we can't tell how he would do at a big time school with high expectations. You look at Nick Saban and he's done it everywhere. Urban Meyer has done it everywhere. There is a certain amount of BS you have to put up with at those schools. Nick Saban probably just tells guys to "**** off, I'm Saban and I will win so you have no leverage." Could Snyder handle that? I don't know. Rich Rodriguez couldn't. A lot of guys haven't been able to. As far as turning programs around, Snyder is measuring stick. He's done it twice.

Best of all time? Woo boy, I don't know about that. Yeah, the turnaround at KSU has been remarkable, but for all his wins he has like 2 conf titles and zero NC.

How does he measure up against this list:

Tom Osborne
Bob Devaney
Knute Rockne
Bear Bryant
Bobby Bowden
Joe Paterno
Bud Wilkinson
Eddie Robinson
Woody Hayes
Bo Schembechler

 

[CyValley]

who gives a **** about graduation rates. fans don't give a **** about them, fans want wins!

I'm a fan. I care about graduation rates. I want a class program, which includes, among other things, wins and a fine team academic rating. But, could be I'm the lone fan who gives a tinker about graduation rates. If so, my humble opinion / position is irrelevant.

 

[acgclone]

It's unfair to compare CPR to Bill Snyder because Snyder is one of the top coaches of all time. Both schools are similar in that their history is pretty laughable, and they are in remote areas that aren't attractive to recruits however.

Snyder built his program at a time when the Big 8 had 2 powerhouse programs (NU and CU at the time, OU was down). You played 7 conference games and he added 4 cupcakes. Throw in KU, ISU, Mizzou and Okie State, and you had several easy wins if you had a half way decent squad.

The B12 is so much deeper now. 9 conference games, with only one being a cupcake and then you add Iowa, which is usually a toss up at best.

One advantage that CPR has is that ISU has some respectable facilities, however most of the rest of the conference has as good or better.

The other advantage is that there are 35 bowl games now and you play a 12 game schedule, so teams that finish 6-6 can go to bowl games. A .500 team in the early 90's stayed home. In fact if you were 6-5 but one of your wins was against a 1AA school, you stayed home.

CPR has gone to 3 bowls, but we were 6-6 each year.

Time will tell, but I think ISU has too many recruiting disadvantages to compete for much more than 5-4 in the B12. That is our ceiling, IMO.

That is why I'm OK with CPR pulling 6 wins every year. It sucks not being a serious challenger in the B12, but it's sure better than being physically man-handled in a 50 point loss 4-5 times per year, like we've done for most of our football history.

 

[CascadeClone]

College football is about coaching and quarterback play. Period.

Good coaching means players know their job, know how to execute and don't make mistakes. What % of games are not won, but rather LOST by a team that beat themself via poor execution and mistakes? Half? So just don't do anything dumb and you are 6-6. This is why teams that win the turnover battle almost always win the game, as that is the biggest mistake you can make.

Add a special QB and you are a 9,10,11 game winner, depending on overall talent, schedule, and luck.


What makes Snyder great is he (and his staff!) gets his players to know their job, execute well, and not make mistakes. It's not sorcery, but if it was easy everyone would do it.


To compare to ISU - how well did our offense execute? Not so well I would say, at many positions. And we all know about the mistakes (turnovers). Defense executed better - they knew their jobs and generally tackled well. Didn't give up a lot of big busted plays for TDs.