Current team's recruitment

[tazclone]

How so?

My point is if McCarney's recruits were so weak they wouldn't be starting. We'd be fielding a team of Freshman and Sophmores.

Right now we are fielding a team consisting of mostly Sr's and Sophs. The Jr's in the 2 deeps would be Mac recruits, except Alvarez and Franklin,and Sims, and there are hardly any Jrs from Macs class making an impact. So one could argue that the Sr's starting are doing so because of experience, whereas the Sophs are ahead of schedule. Then look at the Sophs that played last year over upperclassmen. We were and are a relatively young team.

Our success this year comes from kids from all coaches. The good news is Rhoads is bringing in a solid class that on paper looks better than anything chizdick or Mac did.

 

[cyhiphopp]

How so?

My point is if McCarney's recruits were so weak they wouldn't be starting. We'd be fielding a team of Freshman and Sophmores.

I would think a junior or senior with 4-5 years of strength and conditioning, and college coaching has a good chance to beat out freshmen and sophmores. The ceiling may be higher for the underclassmen, but the maturity and experience can provide that edge to gain the starting position. I think the upside of our current underclassmen is better than it was for some of DMacs classes. I also think we have better depth from these underclassmen, which is evident in the amount of PT accross the team.
I think it was pretty standard for DMac coached teams to only see the starters for most of the game. There was little quality depth even in his best years. This is why Dan consistently ran into problems every year. The senior starters would graduate and there were a lot of times when there was no proven depth ready to fill in. This also contributed to the necessity of bringing in JuCos who had to start right away regardless. Yes, Mac found some great JuCo talent, but there were a lot of guys who didn't show up or did not live up to expectations (see Fisher Twins).

A great example is the 2003 season. A ton of senior starters graduated in 2002 and the 2003 season was a disaster. I think the depth on the team is consistently improving so as to prevent this in the future.

 

[Bobber]

Right now we are fielding a team consisting of mostly Sr's and Sophs. The Jr's in the 2 deeps would be Mac recruits, except Alvarez and Franklin,and Sims, and there are hardly any Jrs from Macs class making an impact. So one could argue that the Sr's starting are doing so because of experience, whereas the Sophs are ahead of schedule. Then look at the Sophs that played last year over upperclassmen. We were and are a relatively young team.

Our success this year comes from kids from all coaches. The good news is Rhoads is bringing in a solid class that on paper looks better than anything chizdick or Mac did.

I think you're proving my point in a round about way.

 

[Bobber]

I think it was pretty standard for DMac coached teams to only see the starters for most of the game. There was little quality depth even in his best years. This is why Dan consistently ran into problems every year. The senior starters would graduate and there were a lot of times when there was no proven depth ready to fill in. This also contributed to the necessity of bringing in JuCos who had to start right away regardless. Yes, Mac found some great JuCo talent, but there were a lot of guys who didn't show up or did not live up to expectations (see Fisher Twins).

A great example is the 2003 season. A ton of senior starters graduated in 2002 and the 2003 season was a disaster. I think the depth on the team is consistently improving so as to prevent this in the future.

I agree with you on this. Very correct.

Do not really see our depth being much greater at this point in time however.

 

[cyhiphopp]

I agree with you on this. Very correct.

Do not really see our depth being much greater at this point in time however.

We actually have someone other than the starters getting PT now. I think this was uncommon under DMac. That alone makes our depth better since they have actually seen the field before being thrust into the starting spot as a Jr/Sr.

 

[Bobber]

We actually have someone other than the starters getting PT now. I think this was uncommon under DMac. That alone makes our depth better since they have actually seen the field before being thrust into the starting spot as a Jr/Sr.

Oh no, we had back ups playing back then too...

 

[tazclone]

How so? Our kick off coverge has been awesome this year.

Maybe the kicking game.

look at it overall

Kickoff coverage is three yards better this year with fewer kickoffs.

Kick returns were better last year.

Punting was about equal. And really any yardage we got was due to a better return man in Lenz.

Mahoney had a better year kicking the ball last year than this year


BTW- What happened to LJ. he was one of the best kick returners last year and now he isn't even returning kicks. You felt he could take one at any time.

 

[Bobber]

look at it overall

Kickoff coverage is three yards better this year with fewer kickoffs.

Kick returns were better last year.

Punting was about equal. And really any yardage we got was due to a better return man in Lenz.

Mahoney had a better year kicking the ball last year than this year


BTW- What happened to LJ. he was one of the best kick returners last year and now he isn't even returning kicks. You felt he could take one at any time.

Fair enough. I've just always thought our special teams is one of the few strengths we have as a team.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Oh no, we had back ups playing back then too...

Were they playing as often or as well?

I specifically remember in 2005 rarely seeing anyong but Curvey and Leaders in the game. As a result, they always seemed gassed by the 4th quarter.
I think the starters got 95% of the minutes.

 

[tazclone]

I think you're proving my point in a round about way.

How so? Mac's guys that are starting are seniors. I would say they are starting because of experience and years in training. The soph's playing this year were playing last year as frosh. So they are actually starting over guys that have 1-2 years on them from experience, in the weight room and the training table. Guys like Jesse Smith and Raven have 3 years over those soph because the are RSr. A guy like Schmidgall has been jumped by a true freshman.

The Jrs that chiz recruited, and the Soph and Fresh have jumped everyone but those few seniors and they compete for playing time. I look at the the two deeps and they have many more chiz players than Mac players. You look at the starters. Hard to look at just the starters as we rotate a lot of players in. Did Lenz and Darks have as good of year or contribute as much as Williams. Statistcally... yes, Darks was hurt and Lenz saw less PT. Notice Williams and Hamilton's catches went down once Darks came back and was healthy. So what would Darks have done if he is healthy all season. Not to mention Reynolds

How about Collin Franklin. He is a chiz guy but isn't listed as a starter but when healthy he is ahead of Catlett.
How about on defense Ruemp played as much as Johnson but isn't listed as a starter. He had three less tackles than Johnson.
Knott and Klein were both in the two deeps. Will they be better players than Smith and Garrin when they are Seniors. They are more gifted physically. Hell Klein led special teams in tackles
Benton played more of a hybrid LB role so he counts even though he isn't in the two deeps. He took snaps frm Raven.

 

[tazclone]

Fair enough. I've just always thought our special teams is one of the few strengths we have as a team.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are solid just thought they were a little better last year

 

[Bobber]

How so? Mac's guys that are starting are seniors. I would say they are starting because of experience and years in training. The soph's playing this year were playing last year as frosh. So they are actually starting over guys that have 1-2 years on them from experience, in the weight room and the training table. Guys like Jesse Smith and Raven have 3 years over those soph because the are RSr. A guy like Schmidgall has been jumped by a true freshman.

The Jrs that chiz recruited, and the Soph and Fresh have jumped everyone but those few seniors and they compete for playing time. I look at the the two deeps and they have many more chiz players than Mac players. You look at the starters. Hard to look at just the starters as we rotate a lot of players in. Did Lenz and Darks have as good of year or contribute as much as Williams. Statistcally... yes, Darks was hurt and Lenz saw less PT. Notice Williams and Hamilton's catches went down once Darks came back and was healthy. So what would Darks have done if he is healthy all season. Not to mention Reynolds

How about Collin Franklin. He is a chiz guy but isn't listed as a starter but when healthy he is ahead of Catlett.
How about on defense Ruemp played as much as Johnson but isn't listed as a starter. He had three less tackles than Johnson.
Knott and Klein were both in the two deeps. Will they be better players than Smith and Garrin when they are Seniors. They are more gifted physically. Hell Klein led special teams in tackles
Benton played more of a hybrid LB role so he counts even though he isn't in the two deeps. He took snaps frm Raven.

It's pretty simple. If Mac's players were inferior, they would not be playing....

 

[WalkingCY]

is awesome. Go Cyclones!:wink:

 

[tazclone]

It's pretty simple. If Mac's players were inferior, they would not be playing....

A lot of them are splitting time with guys that have less experience. You see Johnson as as starter but he splits time. If he was better he would play more snaps like Frere. He isn't any better. You see williams as better but he splits time and when people are healthy he loses time and catches. Darks has 30 cathes in 4 games. Hamilton has 46 on the year.
Benton saw a lot of time over Raven until he got hurt. The only Sr's/Jr's/Mac guys that didn't split time with a soph and frosh were clearly better then their underclassmen counter parts Arnaud, Stephens, Hamilton, Smith, Smith, Frere and Garrin. 7 guys out of 22 that were clearly better than the underclassmen. That doesn't speak highly of those 2-3 recruiting classes. In 15 out of 22 positions, underclassmen are seeing equal time. So with 2-3 years less experience they ARE PLAYING AHEAD OF SR's. They ARE TAKING THEIR SNAPS. They ARE TAKING THEIR CATCHES. THEY ARE EQUAL OR BETTER. The Jr's and Sr's that I mentioned (7) are the only players not losing snaps to underclassmen.

 

[cyhiphopp]

It's pretty simple. If Mac's players were inferior, they would not be playing....

Were they as good as Freshman and Sophmores as the current Fr and Soph starters? I don't think they were.

It's an apples to oranges comparison. LJ and the Sophmores starting on the O-Line will be VERY good when they are seniors.

 

[NomadicClone]

Chizik was a very poor coach at Iowa State.

* His recruitng was not any better than expected.
* His coaching staff was terrible.
* His game day coaching was awful.
* When we lost games, we really lost games. No comparison to this year's team which other than Iowa did not get embarrassed.

I still wish McCarney was here, but I am excited about Rhoads. Great, great staff.

 

[tazclone]

It's pretty simple. If Mac's players were inferior, they would not be playing....

Mac would have 3 years of recruits (RSr(.5), Sr(1), Jr(1) RSo (.5.) chiz 2. years, of recrutis and Rhoads .5 year.

If you look at the 2 deeps, Rhoads and chiz have have 27 players, Mac has 17. Not exactly equal. Now figure in that Chiz and Roads had to go through coaching changes and start from the begining with recruiting and it is even more unbalanced.

The breakdown by my count
Mac-17
Chiz-23
Rhoads-3

More chiz players seeing playing time. no matter how you look at it.

 

[tazclone]

Chizik was a very poor coach at Iowa State.

I am excited about Rhoads. Great, great staff.

Agree 100%.