E-85 anybody using it?

CloneJD

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I'm curious whether this study compared the ethanol to oil pumped and refined right here in North America or to oil shipped half way around the world.
The fallacy of these studies is the assumption that the corn acres wouldn’t be planted at all if it weren’t for ethanol. It’s a poor assumption of course.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Interesting that they use 2016 to talk about corn acreage increase. Wonder what happened that year……..
 
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BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
The fallacy of these studies is the assumption that the corn acres wouldn’t be planted at all if it weren’t for ethanol. It’s a poor assumption of course.
I haven’t looked but do they use the processes of 2010 or the more recent ones which have cut LP and water use drastically?

Also needs to be noted that about 40% of the bushels used for ethanol comes back as feed by products.
 

nfrine

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The fallacy of these studies is the assumption that the corn acres wouldn’t be planted at all if it weren’t for ethanol. It’s a poor assumption of course.
Corn based ethanol has certainly created more demand (and $) for corn production.
 

CyclonesRock

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I have to run 91 octane no-ethanol in my Jags. It's expensive right now, but it won't ruin my engine.
My wife had a Jaguar and when we moved there were not any stations in the area that carried the Premium 91 gas. I had a friend that was a mechanic and he said to just run E10 and it will adapt. It took a tank or two for it to feel like it was running "normal" but after that we couldn't tell the difference. Surprisingly it actually got even better mileage than when we were running the 91. Bottom line, I have no clue what is better or worse other than I like to pay as little for fuel as possible! :cool:
 

CloneJD

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Corn based ethanol has certainly created more demand (and $) for corn production.
As has population increase, higher protein diets in developing countries, drought, and war in ukraine. I think there is room for nuance in the discussion. Argonne National Laboratory was pretty critical of cherry-picked data and assumptions in that study.
 
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CloneJD

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I haven’t looked but do they use the processes of 2010 or the more recent ones which have cut LP and water use drastically?

Also needs to be noted that about 40% of the bushels used for ethanol comes back as feed by products.
Not sure but that’s a good question. Corn acres have also been mostly flat the last 15 years. Most of demand has been met by yield increases.
 

swiacy

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Local blender pump prices today: E10-4.69, E16-4.54,E30-4.44,E85-2.99,Unleaded91-5.39, Farm Diesel-4.83,Road Diesel-5.39,Winter Diesel-5.69. United Farmers Coop
 

nfrine

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As has population increase, higher protein diets in developing countries, drought, and war in ukraine. I think there is room for nuance in the discussion. Argonne National Laboratory was pretty critical of cherry-picked data and assumptions in that study.
Time to build all the pipelines needed for CO(2) sequestration then to try to make it more carbon neutral. And don't worry about the water usage to produce ethanol. It's only over 25% of all the water used in Iowa.


 

StevieISU23

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Just did this comparison on a RoadTrip last week to/from Saint Louis-
2019 Dodge Grand Caravan
E-85 19.5 MPG
E-10 23.5 MPG

About 17% less MPG per gallon for the E-85.

My general rule, is that if E-85 is about 20% cheaper than regular Gas, Then use the E-85.


So many people say that they will only us E85, "if it is $.50 cheaper", or "It only makes sense to use it if it is $1.00 cheaper, then I will use it....."
Well that all depends on the price regular & E10.

***Everyone should just Buy it, if it is 20 PERCENT cheaper.


For the Math Challenged.......
Regular/E10............ Buy E85 if less than:
$4.79.........................$3.83
$4.50.........................$3.60
$4.00..........................$3.20
$3.50...........................$2.80
$3.00...........................$2.40
$2.50...........................$2.00
$2.00..........................$1.60
$1.50..........................$1.20
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Time to build all the pipelines needed for CO(2) sequestration then to try to make it more carbon neutral. And don't worry about the water usage to produce ethanol. It's only over 25% of all the water used in Iowa.


How does ethanol production water usage compare to gasoline production water usage on a per gallon basis?
 

wxman1

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Just did this comparison on a RoadTrip last week to/from Saint Louis-
2019 Dodge Grand Caravan
E-85 19.5 MPG
E-10 23.5 MPG

About 17% less MPG per gallon for the E-85.

My general rule, is that if E-85 is about 20% cheaper than regular Gas, Then use the E-85.


So many people say that they will only us E85, "if it is $.50 cheaper", or "It only makes sense to use it if it is $1.00 cheaper, then I will use it....."
Well that all depends on the price regular & E10.

***Everyone should just Buy it, if it is 20 PERCENT cheaper.


For the Math Challenged.......
Regular/E10............ Buy E85 if less than:
$4.79.........................$3.83
$4.50.........................$3.60
$4.00..........................$3.20
$3.50...........................$2.80
$3.00...........................$2.40
$2.50...........................$2.00
$2.00..........................$1.60
$1.50..........................$1.20

We got 27 MPG in our 2019 Odyssey to/from Branson last week ;)
 

CloneJD

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Time to build all the pipelines needed for CO(2) sequestration then to try to make it more carbon neutral. And don't worry about the water usage to produce ethanol. It's only over 25% of all the water used in Iowa.


Ethanol water usage is flat but industrial jordan aquifer usage has increased 1.4 billion annual gallons since 2013.
 
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BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Ethanol water usage is flat but industrial jordan aquifer usage has increased 1.4 billion annual gallons since 2013.
The introduction of enogen has cut water usage per gallon of ethanol from 3 to one to 2.33 to one. Gasoline is considered to be roughly the same. Most of the ethanol producers I know of use enogen. The one who doesn’t, take a guess, Valero. The gas company.

So any study that explores water usage in ethanol production pre-2015ish is using bad data.
 

cycfan1

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The introduction of enogen has cut water usage per gallon of ethanol from 3 to one to 2.33 to one. Gasoline is considered to be roughly the same. Most of the ethanol producers I know of use enogen. The one who doesn’t, take a guess, Valero. The gas company.

So any study that explores water usage in ethanol production pre-2015ish is using bad data.

Hardly know of anyone using enogen. It certainly hasn't lived up to its billing as a increase to ethanol yield, especially compared to the input cost and the segregation needed to do so. Valero is certainly not alone.

Re water use: its essentially using ground water for cooling purposes only. Water is recycled within cooling towers. Sure 25% of Iowa's water supply sounds like a lot as a stand alone figure, but its not like 25% of Iowa water being wasted or polluted. Don't have the time to fact check that article but it was dated 2013. A lot has changed in production over 10 years.
 

BCClone

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Not exactly sure.
Hardly know of anyone using enogen. It certainly hasn't lived up to its billing as a increase to ethanol yield, especially compared to the input cost and the segregation needed to do so. Valero is certainly not alone.

Re water use: its essentially using ground water for cooling purposes only. Water is recycled within cooling towers. Sure 25% of Iowa's water supply sounds like a lot as a stand alone figure, but its not like 25% of Iowa water being wasted or polluted. Don't have the time to fact check that article but it was dated 2013. A lot has changed in production over 10 years.
Poet and green plains, which are the other big ones around me use Enogen. It was never supposed to increase yield from all the information I was given, it was to reduce water and LP usage and reduce west and tear on equipment. It also cut a step in production.
 

Remo Gaggi

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My wife had a Jaguar and when we moved there were not any stations in the area that carried the Premium 91 gas. I had a friend that was a mechanic and he said to just run E10 and it will adapt. It took a tank or two for it to feel like it was running "normal" but after that we couldn't tell the difference. Surprisingly it actually got even better mileage than when we were running the 91. Bottom line, I have no clue what is better or worse other than I like to pay as little for fuel as possible! :cool:
It's still cheaper than 100LL fuel for your Cessna. Avgas is up to $8.00 a gallon.