Elam Ending

[elreh]

The Elam Ending, to me, is too weird and would screw up the game.

The reason for this alternative ending is the massive fouling.

SOLUTION: in the last 2 minutes of the game, tweak the rules a bit so that the fouled team can choose either to take the free throws as usual, or optionally they can choose to keep their possession and bring the ball inbounds with a fresh, or perhaps 20 second shot clock.

 

[Gunnerclone]

The Elam Ending, to me, is too weird and would screw up the game.

The reason for this alternative ending is the massive fouling.

SOLUTION: in the last 2 minutes of the game, tweak the rules a bit so that the fouled team can choose either to take the free throws as usual, or optionally they can choose to keep their possession and bring the ball inbounds with a fresh, or perhaps 20 second shot clock.

Or have fouls within the last 1 or 2 minutes result automatically in a 1-1 if not in the bonus. And automatic two ***** if in the bonus

 

[Cycsk]

The Elam Ending, to me, is too weird and would screw up the game.

The reason for this alternative ending is the massive fouling.

SOLUTION: in the last 2 minutes of the game, tweak the rules a bit so that the fouled team can choose either to take the free throws as usual, or optionally they can choose to keep their possession and bring the ball inbounds with a fresh, or perhaps 20 second shot clock.

Resetting the shot clock on a foul would be more fair than anything involving additional free throws because it is the same deterrent for fouling Jake Sullivan as Shaq.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

Or have fouls within the last 1 or 2 minutes result automatically in a 1-1 if not in the bonus. And automatic two ***** if in the bonus

Seems pretty extreme for if in the bonus.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

No, just no.

Sorry, maybe I am old fashioned, but I love the game the way it is.

I like some tweaks, like the charge circle, but don't change parts of the game that literally make it a different game.

 

[Sigmapolis]

No, just no.

Sorry, maybe I am old fashioned, but I love the game the way it is.

I like some tweaks, like the charge circle, but don't change parts of the game that literally make it a different game.

Does it make it that different?

It does fundamentally change the end of games and remove clock management -- save for the shot clock, which I assume you keep with this.

Overall, though, it makes the last four minutes more like the preceding game. It gives it more of a baseball feel where the last outs have to come the same way as the ones the previous eight innings, rather than football, where clock management is often everything at the end of games, which nobody seems to really complain about.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

Does it make it that different?

It does fundamentally change the end of games and remove clock management -- save for the shot clock, which I assume you keep with this.

Overall, though, it makes the last four minutes more like the preceding game. It gives it more of a baseball feel where the last outs have to come the same way as the ones the previous eight innings, rather than football, where clock management is often everything at the end of games, which nobody seems to really complain about.

It makes the end of games completely different. I guess I enjoy the clock management aspect.

 

[alenz95]

If you want to get rid of intentional fouling, so long as one team is up by a certain number of points, why not just charge double fouls towards the end of games? Players would foul out way sooner, and it would force teams to fouls only if actually in their best interest. This way a 5 point game could be extended, but a team down by 10 plus points couldn't just foul to keep it going.

 

[SCyclone]

Every time this thread pops up I am reminded of Jack Elam.

Start watching at the 3:00 mark:

 

[CtownCyclone]

Does it make it that different?

It does fundamentally change the end of games and remove clock management -- save for the shot clock, which I assume you keep with this.

Overall, though, it makes the last four minutes more like the preceding game. It gives it more of a baseball feel where the last outs have to come the same way as the ones the previous eight innings, rather than football, where clock management is often everything at the end of games, which nobody seems to really complain about.

Would you need to keep the shot clock? If time doesn't matter, and it's all about scoring points, there's not much benefit in slowing things down.

 

[mywayorcyway]

I haven't made a decision on whether I like the Elam ending or not, but one thing I always thought could be improved is the calling of intentional fouls in the final minutes. Not intentional fouls with the intention to cause harm, but actual intentional fouls. Bearhugging a poor free throw shooter prior to an inbounds pass is never called as an intentional foul. Almost all fouls near the end of a game by a trailing team are intentional fouls.

It's a murky line that makes it difficult to call, but if you're not making an attempt to get the ball, it's an intentional foul. If the leading team gets the ball back after the FTs, grabbing someone's jersey to get a whistle doesn't make any sense.

 

[EnhancedFujita]

The Elam Ending, to me, is too weird and would screw up the game.

The reason for this alternative ending is the massive fouling.

SOLUTION: in the last 2 minutes of the game, tweak the rules a bit so that the fouled team can choose either to take the free throws as usual, or optionally they can choose to keep their possession and bring the ball inbounds with a fresh, or perhaps 20 second shot clock.

The option for a team to keep possession or shoot free throws when fouled is a really elegant and simple solution to some of these end of game scenarios.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

The Elam Ending, to me, is too weird and would screw up the game.

The reason for this alternative ending is the massive fouling.

SOLUTION: in the last 2 minutes of the game, tweak the rules a bit so that the fouled team can choose either to take the free throws as usual, or optionally they can choose to keep their possession and bring the ball inbounds with a fresh, or perhaps 20 second shot clock.

I might tweak it a bit by allowing the team to inbound the ball at half-court to avoid the crappy inbounding locations that would inevitably arise. I like your solution for most teams. Unfortunately, a team like WVU is still going to foul. and beg teams to try to inbound against them.

 

[Melbs]

Would you need to keep the shot clock? If time doesn't matter, and it's all about scoring points, there's not much benefit in slowing things down.

I think you have to keep the shot-clock, otherwise there is too much pressure on the trailing team to play defense for 50, 60, 90 seconds while the winning team looks for a wide-open shot. The shot clock at least keeps the winning team honest.

 

[Aclone]

Just wandered across this thread, and realized how close an “Elam Ending” is to a “Lame Ending”. Er, I’m sure that’s purely coincidence...

 

[Sigmapolis]

I think you have to keep the shot-clock, otherwise there is too much pressure on the trailing team to play defense for 50, 60, 90 seconds while the winning team looks for a wide-open shot. The shot clock at least keeps the winning team honest.

Yeah, one team can play ring-around-the-rosy to tire the other out without a shot clock, even if they are not running the game clock down in the process.

If you had an Elam ending where one team needed one basket, too, then they could just play offense for as long as it took to get a "guaranteed" shot -- a dunk or a layup. They could do the same thing and just never shoot the ball, too, until they somehow draw a foul eventually. I think you have to give them the normal amount of seconds for a possession.

 

[JD720]

Yeah, one team can play ring-around-the-rosy to tire the other out without a shot clock, even if they are not running the game clock down in the process.

If you had an Elam ending where one team needed one basket, too, then they could just play offense for as long as it took to get a "guaranteed" shot -- a dunk or a layup. They could do the same thing and just never shoot the ball, too, until they somehow draw a foul eventually. I think you have to give them the normal amount of seconds for a possession.

Plus, the point of the Elam Ending is to make the end of the game look similar to the rest of the game. Taking out the shot clock would alter the way the game is played, so it should definitely stay in with this.

 

[GrindingAway]

If Iowa high schools are going to stick by the story that shot clocks are too expensive to implement then we should do the Elam ending this year in high school. The foul fest at the end of games is bad, but horrible when it starts with 7 minutes left in the game due to fouling.

I am about as purist as anyone but I think most of the naysayers in this thread haven't watched many games that use it. It really doesn't change that much.

You eliminate the foul fest but also eliminate buzzer beaters. But you gain guys draining game winning threes down two. That's pretty much the tradeoff.

 

[Sigmapolis]

If Iowa high schools are going to stick by the story that shot clocks are too expensive to implement then we should do the Elam ending this year in high school. The foul fest at the end of games is bad, but horrible when it starts with 7 minutes left in the game due to fouling.

I am about as purist as anyone but I think most of the naysayers in this thread haven't watched many games that use it. It really doesn't change that much.

You eliminate the foul fest but also eliminate buzzer beaters. But you gain guys draining game winning threes down two. That's pretty much the tradeoff.

I watched a few endgames of TBT with it. It is slowly winning me over.

I am starting to think losing the "at the buzzer" moments is worth the fact the last few minutes of a game resemble the rest more and are not an absolute foul slog.

Just remembering this game...

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2015-02-21-texas.html

...makes me cringe. Texas probably committed 10+ intentional fouls.

Zach Lowe has a good article about the potential trade-offs...

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19078511/zach-lowe-basketball-tournament-innovative-end-game-rule

He does not come out and say it, but I feel like he is on the Elam's side.