Fouling evolution

[Cyforce]

It's been widely stated this team is void of stars but the sum is greater than the individual parts because multiple guys can be the guy on a given night. That also seems to be the reason we can survive all the foul trouble we seem to have multiple guys that can pick up the slack at a given moment. So as TJs recruiting has advanced the emergence of stars will soon follow.

MY QUESTION IS can our defense evolve again causing the same pressure without racking up all the foul trouble?

 

[moores2]

It's been widely stated this team is void of stars but the sum is greater than the individual parts because multiple guys can be the guy on a given night. That also seems to be the reason we can survive all the foul trouble we seem to have multiple guys can pick up the slack at a given moment. So as TJs recruiting has advanced the emergence of stars will soon follow.

MY QUESTION IS can our defense evolve again causing the same pressure without racking up all the fouls.

I think we will generate more pressure with the same amount of fouling going forward. Recruiting classes are adding a ton of length 1-5.

 

[intrepid27]

I think we will generate more pressure with the same amount of fouling going forward. Recruiting classes are adding a ton of length 1-5.

Agreed. And, as our recruits improve offensively we may not have to play that style of defense every night.

 

[Cyclonepride]

I think we will generate more pressure with the same amount of fouling going forward. Recruiting classes are adding a ton of length 1-5.

I agree (though it may not happen right away with the young guys). Part of fouling/not fouling is beating someone to the spot, and not having to use your hands to do it (though we don't hand check a lot, we just get into their body).

 

[isucyfan]

I'm old, so I admit to be biased, as I think Tim Floyd was a really good coach. His teams were great defensively and he preached "no hands" defense to cut down on fouling. I love the intensity of TJs teams, but I do wish we weren't as handsy.

 

[psycln11]

I think the issue is the complete inconsistency in officiating. Take our last 3 games for example. We get absolutely no calls on the road vs. Texas Tech and West Virginia. Against KU, both teams had total 4 fouls at the half. It's quite obvious the refs allowed both teams to play through contact in the Kansas game, however, if ISU breathed in the direction of a player from Tech or W. Virginia it was a foul.

 

[cyclonehomer]

Agreed. And, as our recruits improve offensively we may not have to play that style of defense every night.

I think the intensity will remain, but I do think they'll start to look to speed the game up a bit and get out in transition a lot more. I think you'll always see a lot more focus defensively than the Hoiball era, but I do think over the next few years you'll be right.

 

[bawbie]

I don't see it changing - although maybe we end up going to more of the zone, like in the second half, on the road. It didn't seem to hurt our defensive rebounding (WVU got 3 offensive boards all game). It didn't seem to help the fouling issue though.

The thing that I see is the biggest difference between home and road is the likelihood of getting a charge call when the help defense comes. I just don't see how to play with the defensive strategy we have without it though.

 

[AuH2O]

I think the issue is the complete inconsistency in officiating. Take our last 3 games for example. We get absolutely no calls on the road vs. Texas Tech and West Virginia. Against KU, both teams had total 4 fouls at the half. It's quite obvious the refs allowed both teams to play through contact in the Kansas game, however, if ISU breathed in the direction of a player from Tech or W. Virginia it was a foul.

It's inconsistency in how games are called, but it's also a major difference in a true road game. Our team is super handsy. They use their bodies to initiate contact and violate the cylinder. This is a really physical team. They commit a lot of legitimate fouls.

I don't have a huge problem typically with the fouls that ISU does get called on them. But I do have a problem in a game officiated like last night where things like a WVU guy just flat out grabbing Gabe around the waist after getting beat on a back door cut not getting called. They just refused to call some blatant stuff. I just think the officials now are bad enough and way to influenced by crowds and coaching. It's always been the case, but it's really crazy right now. No wonder winning on the road is so damn hard.

 

[Cyforce]

It's inconsistency in how games are called, but it's also a major difference in a true road game. Our team is super handsy. They use their bodies to initiate contact and violate the cylinder. This is a really physical team. They commit a lot of legitimate fouls.

I don't have a huge problem typically with the fouls that ISU does get called on them. But I do have a problem in a game officiated like last night where things like a WVU guy just flat out grabbing Gabe around the waist after getting beat on a back door cut not getting called. They just refused to call some blatant stuff. I just think the officials now are bad enough and way to influenced by crowds and coaching. It's always been the case, but it's really crazy right now. No wonder winning on the road is so damn hard.

Completely agree, it's really about the appearance. My point in the OP is when you have a 20 point scorer which we likely will have down the road from Milan or JT. Hopefully our defense can evolve without losing the intensity.

 

[cytor]

It would help if we don't draw the same reffing crew. That will keep us out of foul trouble.

 

[alarson]

It's inconsistency in how games are called, but it's also a major difference in a true road game. Our team is super handsy. They use their bodies to initiate contact and violate the cylinder. This is a really physical team. They commit a lot of legitimate fouls.

I don't have a huge problem typically with the fouls that ISU does get called on them. But I do have a problem in a game officiated like last night where things like a WVU guy just flat out grabbing Gabe around the waist after getting beat on a back door cut not getting called. They just refused to call some blatant stuff. I just think the officials now are bad enough and way to influenced by crowds and coaching. It's always been the case, but it's really crazy right now. No wonder winning on the road is so damn hard.

We have seen a few games now where teams go on huge stretches without being called for a foul. Tech had 1 foul pretty much the entire first half. You never see that.

Yes, we foul, but somehow on the road it gets decided for long periods the other team doesn't. Even a WVU team that definitely fouls

 

[AuH2O]

Completely agree, it's really about the appearance. My point in the OP is when you have a 20 point scorer which we likely will have down the road from Milan or JT. Hopefully our defense can evolve without losing the intensity.

Absolutely - adding some room for error through scoring, whether it be dealing with foul trouble or being able to idle back the physicality sooner once it's clear a game will be called a certain way will be a huge help. The offense and depth are better this year, but this still probably is a team that has to play the way it does for 40 minutes to win, and if a game like last night happens, so be it.

 

[VeloClone]

We have seen a few games now where teams go on huge stretches without being called for a foul. Tech had 1 foul pretty much the entire first half. You never see that.

Yes, we foul, but somehow on the road it gets decided for long periods the other team doesn't. Even a WVU team that definitely fouls

That is the issue. Good teams can adapt to what is being called, but any team is generally going to have a hard time of it when what is a block, reach-in, charge, travel or other violation changes from one end of the floor to the other or even on different trips to the same end of the floor. It seemed that these officials weren't in tune with each other either which can really screw things up.

 

[AuH2O]

We have seen a few games now where teams go on huge stretches without being called for a foul. Tech had 1 foul pretty much the entire first half. You never see that.

Yes, we foul, but somehow on the road it gets decided for long periods the other team doesn't. Even a WVU team that definitely fouls

TTU is a physical team too, at least in the frontcourt. Officials just seem to swallow their whistles on the home teams worse than they ever have in the past. We saw that at TTU last year too. That was probably the worst game last year.

 

[Cyforce]

That is the issue. Good teams can adapt to what is being called, but any team is generally going to have a hard time of it when what is a block, reach-in, charge, travel or other violation changes from one end of the floor to the other or even on different trips to the same end of the floor. It seemed that these officials weren't in tune with each other either which can really screw things up.

I noticed the bald guy that we recently had in a few other games tends to be strongly influenced when he's standing near a chirpy bench.

 

[Dopey]

I think the issue is the complete inconsistency in officiating. Take our last 3 games for example. We get absolutely no calls on the road vs. Texas Tech and West Virginia. Against KU, both teams had total 4 fouls at the half. It's quite obvious the refs allowed both teams to play through contact in the Kansas game, however, if ISU breathed in the direction of a player from Tech or W. Virginia it was a foul.

I agree. But with our style it's a reality. I'm nervous for what it could mean in the tourney.

 

[CloniesForLife]

We also get called for some really weak foul calls too. A couple on Grill and Osun were really bad for what other stuff they were allowing. WVU big number 15 should've fouled out. He was being very physical

 

[VeloClone]

We also get called for some really weak foul calls too. A couple on Grill and Osun were really bad for what other stuff they were allowing. WVU big number 15 should've fouled out. He was being very physical

Yeah, he was manhandling people on both ends of the floor. Our bigs tried to hold their own but often got whistled when they just tried to return the same level of physicality.

 

[MushroomPinball]

Yeah, he was manhandling people on both ends of the floor. Our bigs tried to hold their own but often got whistled when they just tried to return the same level of physicality.

I'd have to rewatch to see if it was actually the case, but it seemed like whenever our bigs were trying to set a screen last night, the West Virginia posts would body them up. Of course the refs ignore it and when our posts get a little physical back then it's an instant moving screen.