Good Idea to put Todd Sturdy as QB coach

[cyhiphopp]

Maybe but If you took Mess. out of position then you have to replace him which he was doing 2 spots (QB and Coordinator). It would have made matters worse. Paul was stuck in a rock and a hard place with last season. Very very difficult situation.

You kind of have to give him more than one season as well otherwise you get ripped for pulling the trigger too often. I have no doubt that the offense would have been so much better if Herman had stuck around. Even though people like to rip on Herman.


Now we have one of the better offensive football minds available in Mangino. So pumped.

 

[WrestlerJJE]

****, this kool-aid is really getting me pumped up for this season! Need to get me more kool-aid tonight!!:jiggy:

 

[Aclone]

****, this kool-aid is really getting me pumped up for this season! Need to get me more kool-aid tonight!!:jiggy:

You call bashing on CPR and the rest of our coaches "koolaid"?

 

[upstateclone]

Maybe Rhoads for giving him responsibility in the first place and then not taking it away till the season was over.

Wasn't someone else calling the plays vs Kansas and WVU?

 

[cyhiphopp]

Wasn't someone else calling the plays vs Kansas and WVU?

Rumored but I don't think it was confirmed.

We sure as hell know the fat man won't be delegating the playcalling any time soon.

 

[upstateclone]

Everyone blames Mess for everything! Absolutely no one else had anything to do with the dumpster fire that was last season!

Well, when you lose five games by one possession or less, it's a valid argument. I'm not aware if you saw any of the games, but throwing a WR screen on 3rd and 16 doesn't help out chances.

 

[CycloneErik]

You kind of have to give him more than one season as well otherwise you get ripped for pulling the trigger too often. I have no doubt that the offense would have been so much better if Herman had stuck around. Even though people like to rip on Herman.


Now we have one of the better offensive football minds available in Mangino. So pumped.

To date, the big upsets left with Herman.
They should likely come back with Mangino.

 

[Section110]

Is there any one other person more responsible for the offense last year than Messingham? No.

Look, all anyone on here really knows is that the offense was garbage last year. No one knows exactly what went down. Was Mess good? No obviously he struggled mightily, but Rhoads put him in that position. No one knows how much Rhoads meddled in Mess's decision making either. From what I've heard Rhoads was asking Mess to run someone else's system (Herman's I'm assuming). That's a little odd in and of itself. As you can see with Mangino, Rhoads is allowing him to install his system. I don't think it's fair to Mess to blame everything on him when it doesn't sound like he was allowed to be "the man" like Mangino is being allowed to do. I think Rhoads, and the rest of the coaching staff, understood that he needs to bring someone in at OC who knows what he's doing and he needs to stay the heck out of it.

The other thing that is well known is that Rhoads publicly threw his offensive staff under the bus. Whether or not they deserved it I don't think that's the right way to go about things as a head coach. It's a divisive tactic.

So was what we saw last year Mess's fault? Sure he was partly responsible because he was the OC, but it's tough to tell how much blame you can put on him. He was certainly the fall guy. I think the truth is that Rhoads was just as responsible, if not more so, but because he was the head coach he was able to make the decision on how to move forward. He made a great hire in Mangino and it appears he's taking a step back away from the offense. I give him credit for that, but I'll stand by the fact it seems as though many Cyclone fans have chosen to blame everything on Mess. I just don't think that's accurate or fair.

 

[Dandy]

Everyone blames Mess for everything! Absolutely no one else had anything to do with the dumpster fire that was last season!

Is Messingham the only one to blame? Absolutely not. But was he the biggest issue of them all? Yes. That is why everyone puts most of the blame on him.

Biggest issue last season: the offense as a whole. Guess who was in control of that. Messingham.

Second biggest issue last season: play calling. Guess who was in control of that. Messingham.

Third biggest issue last season: poor offensive line blocking scheme and (what some people say are forced) injuries. Messingham allowed Klenakis to run the offensive line scheme which didn't blend with the poor play calling. Klenakis ran the offensive linemen into the ground and was a poor fit. Messingham gets a slight pass on this although it all happened under his watch.

Fourth biggest issue: Quarterback play. Guess who was the QB coach. Messingham.

Do you see a trend yet?

 

[im4cyclones]

I think an argument could be made that Sturdy is more qualified to be our head coach than CPR.

Man, I am curious as to how someone could make that argument.

 

[Section110]

Is Messingham the only one to blame? Absolutely not. But was he the biggest issue of them all? Yes. That is why everyone puts most of the blame on him.

Biggest issue last season: the offense as a whole. Guess who was in control of that. Messingham.

Second biggest issue last season: play calling. Guess who was in control of that. Messingham.

Third biggest issue last season: poor offensive line blocking scheme and (what some people say are forced) injuries. Messingham allowed Klenakis to run the offensive line scheme which didn't blend with the poor play calling. Klenakis ran the offensive linemen into the ground and was a poor fit. Messingham gets a slight pass on this although it all happened under his watch.

Fourth biggest issue: Quarterback play. Guess who was the QB coach. Messingham.

Do you see a trend yet?

Who put Mess in that position? CPR
Who allowed Mess to call the plays? CPR
Who asked Mess to operate an offense utilizing someone else's system? CPR
Who put Klenakis in his position? CPR

Do you see a trend yet?

That's my point. Guys like you want to blame it all on Mess and Klenakis, and pretend to act like CPR was totally innocent. Why? Because CPR is still the head coach and the other two are gone. If it makes you feel better to pin the blame on the fall guys then I understand that, but in reality CPR was the reason those guys were put in the positions they were in.

*Plus this is only taking the offense into consideration here. It's equally naïve to suggest Wally isn't partially responsible for last year because the defense was awful as well.

 

[WrestlerJJE]

You call bashing on CPR and the rest of our coaches "koolaid"?

Nah! Just all this talk about the new coaches and players that have actually experienced college football has got me all excited! I mean the coaches have awesome resumes, I just hope they can make something work!

 

[im4cyclones]

Everyone blames Mess for everything! Absolutely no one else had anything to do with the dumpster fire that was last season!

On a recent podcast, Brent Blum said there was a 3-game stretch last season (I can't remember for sure but I think it was Baylor, Okie State, and K-State) were our offense did not get a first down on 60% of their possessions. They either went 3 & out or had a turnover. Sixty percent of the time we had the ball in those 3 games, we did not run four plays in a row. Come on, man.

 

[Rabbuk]

Man, I am curious as to how someone could make that argument.

His position groups at Iowa State haven't terribly underperformed. He ran one of the most prolific offenses in the country at WSU, and our league is very much an offense oriented one. Before that he couched a pretty good offense at Eastern Washington. And before that he was a headcoach for 12 years granted at an NAIA school but he achieved pretty good success at that level. Rhoads had some pretty highly ranked defenses at Pitt but about 60% of those schedules were against really bad ACC teams. In 2008 at Auburn he had a top 27 defense in the country. His time at Iowa State Speaks for itself, whether you think it's good or bad. I think you put a premium on offensive coaches in our league personally.

 

[WrestlerJJE]

Who put Mess in that position? CPR
Who allowed Mess to call the plays? CPR
Who asked Mess to operate an offense utilizing someone else's system? CPR
Who put Klenakis in his position? CPR

Do you see a trend yet?

That's my point. Guys like you want to blame it all on Mess and Klenakis, and pretend to act like CPR was totally innocent. Why? Because CPR is still the head coach and the other two are gone. If it makes you feel better to pin the blame on the fall guys then I understand that, but in reality CPR was the reason those guys were put in the positions they were in.

*Plus this is only taking the offense into consideration here. It's equally naïve to suggest Wally isn't partially responsible for last year because the defense was awful as well.

That's where you are right and you are wrong. Put yourself in CPR shoes for a minute. who do you have to replace Mess. and Klenakis? CPR is not offensive minded so keep that in mind. Also, you are telling me that CPR can tell the future and know that the season was going to go to ****. I am just saying that CPR should not babysit the offense. He hired Mess. for a reason and Mess. did not preform. Yes, in all, Paul should have some blame, but like I said, it's not his job to run the offense. Its also extremely hard to fire a coaches in the middle of a season, its hard on the coaches and the players.

And just a little thought, if we actually had an offense, maybe are defense is better then what we think since they were out there 3/4 of the game.

 

[im4cyclones]

Who put Mess in that position? CPR
Who allowed Mess to call the plays? CPR
Who asked Mess to operate an offense utilizing someone else's system? CPR
Who put Klenakis in his position? CPR

Do you see a trend yet?

That's my point. Guys like you want to blame it all on Mess and Klenakis, and pretend to act like CPR was totally innocent. Why? Because CPR is still the head coach and the other two are gone. If it makes you feel better to pin the blame on the fall guys then I understand that, but in reality CPR was the reason those guys were put in the positions they were in.

*Plus this is only taking the offense into consideration here. It's equally naïve to suggest Wally isn't partially responsible for last year because the defense was awful as well.

#1 - Yes, CPR hired Mess which many fans questioned. However, we don't know how many others wanted the job so it is hard to judge that hire. We just had a young up-and-comer coordinator from a lower level program and (1) he couldn't do much here and (2) many fans wanted him out. So I doubt there were too many clamoring for the job.

#2 - When your head coach has a background on defense, not sure how you have an OC and not have him call plays.

#3 - Most head coaches ask their OC to operate a system they (the head coach) wants. Plus it was basically a continuation of our previous offense, which was familiar to the players and position coaches.

#4 - Klenakis didn't work out but had a great resume. CPR didn't have the benefit of hindsight (like you do) when he made the hire.#

#5 - Yes, the D struggled. But it has always struggled here and will always struggle at ISU. We aren't able to get elite defenders here and can't stockpile talent. The staff missed on a few recruits which impacted our depth. But there is not way you will ever convince me that the struggles of our defense were not related to the struggles of our offense. Look at the drive chart for our games against Baylor, for example (3 plays, 2 plays, 3, 11 for 36 yards, 4, 3, 3, 6, 6, 1, 3, 4, 1, 3, 6, 1). Not helping your defense out, especially when playing an explosive team like Baylor.

 

[Dandy]

Who put Mess in that position? CPR
Who allowed Mess to call the plays? CPR
Who asked Mess to operate an offense utilizing someone else's system? CPR
Who put Klenakis in his position? CPR

Do you see a trend yet?

That's my point. Guys like you want to blame it all on Mess and Klenakis, and pretend to act like CPR was totally innocent. Why? Because CPR is still the head coach and the other two are gone. If it makes you feel better to pin the blame on the fall guys then I understand that, but in reality CPR was the reason those guys were put in the positions they were in.

*Plus this is only taking the offense into consideration here. It's equally naïve to suggest Wally isn't partially responsible for last year because the defense was awful as well.

If you are doing an awful job at where ever you're working, should I blame you or the manager who hired you? Everyone will blame you for being awful at what you were hired to do but only be disappointed in your boss because he hired you in the first place. Your boss keeps his job and the company continues without you.

 

[CTTB78]

...
Guys like you want to blame it all on Mess and Klenakis, and pretend to act like CPR was totally innocent. Why? Because CPR is still the head coach and the other two are gone. If it makes you feel better to pin the blame on the fall guys then I understand that, but in reality CPR was the reason those guys were put in the positions they were in.

I would have had more of a concern with CPR if he did not get rid of Mess and Klenakis after what we saw last season. Yes, he hired them, but he also took action when he had to.
I also give CPR a lot of credit to be able to bring in Mangino. If we see the same results with these latest hires, then I'll agree the issue may be with the HC.

 

[4Cyclones]

Look, all anyone on here really knows is that the offense was garbage last year. No one knows exactly what went down. Was Mess good? No obviously he struggled mightily, but Rhoads put him in that position. No one knows how much Rhoads meddled in Mess's decision making either. From what I've heard Rhoads was asking Mess to run someone else's system (Herman's I'm assuming). That's a little odd in and of itself. As you can see with Mangino, Rhoads is allowing him to install his system. I don't think it's fair to Mess to blame everything on him when it doesn't sound like he was allowed to be "the man" like Mangino is being allowed to do. I think Rhoads, and the rest of the coaching staff, understood that he needs to bring someone in at OC who knows what he's doing and he needs to stay the heck out of it.

The other thing that is well known is that Rhoads publicly threw his offensive staff under the bus. Whether or not they deserved it I don't think that's the right way to go about things as a head coach. It's a divisive tactic.

So was what we saw last year Mess's fault? Sure he was partly responsible because he was the OC, but it's tough to tell how much blame you can put on him. He was certainly the fall guy. I think the truth is that Rhoads was just as responsible, if not more so, but because he was the head coach he was able to make the decision on how to move forward. He made a great hire in Mangino and it appears he's taking a step back away from the offense. I give him credit for that, but I'll stand by the fact it seems as though many Cyclone fans have chosen to blame everything on Mess. I just don't think that's accurate or fair.

I was wondering your true identity.....now I know....you must be Courtney's brother, or sister.

Messsingham had every chance. period.

 

[im4cyclones]

His position groups at Iowa State haven't terribly underperformed. He ran one of the most prolific offenses in the country at WSU, and our league is very much an offense oriented one. Before that he couched a pretty good offense at Eastern Washington. And before that he was a headcoach for 12 years granted at an NAIA school but he achieved pretty good success at that level. Rhoads had some pretty highly ranked defenses at Pitt but about 60% of those schedules were against really bad ACC teams. In 2008 at Auburn he had a top 27 defense in the country. His time at Iowa State Speaks for itself, whether you think it's good or bad. I think you put a premium on offensive coaches in our league personally.

I like Todd so this isn't bashing him but only had 3 years of coaching at a BCS level. He had another 2 years (I think) at the FCS level. Prior to that, he was at the NAIA level.

So three years of coaching at a BCS level makes you more qualified than the a guy who has been a head coach at the BCS level for 5 years? Plus 8 years experience as a DC at the BCS level.

His top defenses were about as good as Todd's top offense, only he did that more than one season. Plus you knock the Big East competition for Rhoads but you are going to give Sturdy a nod for his NAIA record?

Todd might be a better head coach than Paul. But he did not have a better resume at the time Rhoads was hired and does not have one today. A bit of a stretch to say he is more qualified.